First Time Owner, Autopilot and FSD feedback

[ndallas1983]

First off, I realize there are other threads - but I wanted to start one anyways.

We just picked up a 2021 Model 3 with Full Self Drive capability.

I believe I turned on Beta by mistake, and the car is doing weird things.

My first warning: READ THE OWNER'S MANUAL some.

It clearly states Autopilot / Full Self Drive Navigation should really only be used during the day time on highways. Keywords: Daytime, Highways. Now this is not 100% accurate for everyone - we need to be using Full Self Drive everywhere we can to help crowd-train the car. So I believe if you feel you are safe enough, attentive enough and experienced enough, you should continue pushing the limits of your Tesla as long as you do not put you, your passengers or others around you in danger.

PHANTOMS (false-positives)

Phantom 1: Invisible Brick Walls? Your opinion? Spooky! This is the biggest problem we've run into so far is phantoms. We were 180 miles into our trip on Full Self Drive using "Follow The Map" mode (its the little icon with a steering wheel by your Map destination three dots). When you push that button, the car will try to take you to your destination (#todayyoulearned). There were some "hill-like" angles in our highway, such as going over an overpass. Our vehicle went from 80 to 20 mph in 3 seconds because we approached a hill and it probably thought we were going to hit a brick wall.

Phantom 2: Sitting in a Taco Bell drive through (ok don't shame me, I really wanted a mexican pizza), semi trucks were flying from left to right on my screen and the car was just like....ok.

CAR DISTANCE (Autopilot)

CURVES: When you're using automatic acceleration & braking (1 full tap down while driving, not 2 for FSD), you're in control of the steering wheel, but the car is in control of everything else. A dangerous thing to keep in mind is curves. Our car approached a curve at high speeds (enough for us to slide off the road). I had to disable to prevent the car from crashing.

CAR LINKS: Before I got the Model 3, I was heavily watching Youtubes of people reviewing the car. It was boasted you can increase car links to have a more safe travel distance. I would suggest 3 car links if you're depending on your car to make decisions for you. If you're in control of the steering wheel only or on full self drive, 3 car links is enough reaction time to use braking / acceleration. 1-2 is not enough in my opinion, that's pretty close to the car in front of you.


STOP SIGNS (intermittent)

Our car ran a stop sign and if a cop were there, instant ticket. The only reason we trusted the car in that situation is because it had made successful stops at other stop signs, but this one it did not. It may be a result of beta mode.


READ THE MANUAL !!!!

I would like to see more "gotchas" here - things people discovered were falsified information before they bought their Tesla. Just fyi, I'm not getting rid of the car. But there are some misguided representations of what the car can & can't do that you should be aware of for safety reasons. Do not put full trust in the car, you need to bond with it first. Think of it like the dragon things you ride in Avatar. The car is scary for the first time and does things that can crash it. Be responsible, give a small % of your trust in the car at a time, and never 100%. The results may be deadly - and besides, who wants to argue that they totaled their car because they trusted it while they were browsing YouTube or something on the screen. I am extremely serious saying this is Life & Death situations, please pay attention to the features you're using and read the owner's manual before you put your full trust in a feature. Know when things are ON & OFF - know what to expect.

Just my first impression of 24 hours with a Model 3.

See you guys soon, let's add more stuff here!

 

[DCGOO]

First off, I realize there are other threads - but I wanted to start one anyways.

We just picked up a 2021 Model 3 with Full Self Drive capability.

I believe I turned on Beta by mistake, and the car is doing weird things.

My first warning: READ THE OWNER'S MANUAL some.

It clearly states Autopilot / Full Self Drive Navigation should really only be used during the day time on highways. Keywords: Daytime, Highways. Now this is not 100% accurate for everyone - we need to be using Full Self Drive everywhere we can to help crowd-train the car. So I believe if you feel you are safe enough, attentive enough and experienced enough, you should continue pushing the limits of your Tesla as long as you do not put you, your passengers or others around you in danger.

PHANTOMS (false-positives)

Phantom 1: Invisible Brick Walls? Your opinion? Spooky! This is the biggest problem we've run into so far is phantoms. We were 180 miles into our trip on Full Self Drive using "Follow The Map" mode (its the little icon with a steering wheel by your Map destination three dots). When you push that button, the car will try to take you to your destination (#todayyoulearned). There were some "hill-like" angles in our highway, such as going over an overpass. Our vehicle went from 80 to 20 mph in 3 seconds because we approached a hill and it probably thought we were going to hit a brick wall.

Phantom 2: Sitting in a Taco Bell drive through (ok don't shame me, I really wanted a mexican pizza), semi trucks were flying from left to right on my screen and the car was just like....ok.

CAR DISTANCE (Autopilot)

CURVES: When you're using automatic acceleration & braking (1 full tap down while driving, not 2 for FSD), you're in control of the steering wheel, but the car is in control of everything else. A dangerous thing to keep in mind is curves. Our car approached a curve at high speeds (enough for us to slide off the road). I had to disable to prevent the car from crashing.

CAR LINKS: Before I got the Model 3, I was heavily watching Youtubes of people reviewing the car. It was boasted you can increase car links to have a more safe travel distance. I would suggest 3 car links if you're depending on your car to make decisions for you. If you're in control of the steering wheel only or on full self drive, 3 car links is enough reaction time to use braking / acceleration. 1-2 is not enough in my opinion, that's pretty close to the car in front of you.


STOP SIGNS (intermittent)

Our car ran a stop sign and if a cop were there, instant ticket. The only reason we trusted the car in that situation is because it had made successful stops at other stop signs, but this one it did not. It may be a result of beta mode.


READ THE MANUAL !!!!

I would like to see more "gotchas" here - things people discovered were falsified information before they bought their Tesla. Just fyi, I'm not getting rid of the car. But there are some misguided representations of what the car can & can't do that you should be aware of for safety reasons. Do not put full trust in the car, you need to bond with it first. Think of it like the dragon things you ride in Avatar. The car is scary for the first time and does things that can crash it. Be responsible, give a small % of your trust in the car at a time, and never 100%. The results may be deadly - and besides, who wants to argue that they totaled their car because they trusted it while they were browsing YouTube or something on the screen. I am extremely serious saying this is Life & Death situations, please pay attention to the features you're using and read the owner's manual before you put your full trust in a feature. Know when things are ON & OFF - know what to expect.

Just my first impression of 24 hours with a Model 3.

See you guys soon, let's add more stuff here!

Was this a private sale, or did you buy it from Tesla? If the latter, it is highly unlikely you have FSDb, Tesla should remove it as part of the sale (you have to pass their driving test first, then apply to get in, which can take months). What version of Software is installed? Also, if you go into Settings::Autopilot, it will be very obvious whether or not you have the Beta. It is very difficult to turn it on by accident.

The numerical value you set is not car lengths. It is a value loosely related to time, like seconds to reach the vehicle in front of you. The distance is much larger at 80 mph, than at 20 mph.

 

[JulienW]

First off, I realize there are other threads - but I wanted to start one anyways.

We just picked up a 2021 Model 3 with Full Self Drive capability.

I believe I turned on Beta by mistake, and the car is doing weird things....

Believe you are confusing and conflating and don't actually have FSD Beta. Simply click on Autopilot and look. Bet you don't have Beta. If so there has been some kind of mistake.

 

[Twiglett]

Number of things for you @ndallas1983
First, post what software version your car is running on, that will help folks comment in context.
Second, you must never, ever, EVER, "trust the car" in any shape or form. All of the features are driver assistance features, which just like old style cruise control, you and only you are responsible for what happens. In context, your car didn't run a stop sign, you allowed it to do so.
You are absolutely correct about learning what the car can do, it can do some amazing things, but never, ever trust it.
As the other folks mentioned, if you got the car through a private sale and it somehow came with the FSD-beta, you probably won't get to keep it. The Beta enrollment is based on the person, not the car.
So while you will keep the current release of FSD (which can't stop at stop signs), the beta is likely to disappear when Tesla realize the original owner sold it. Just so you are fully aware.
Hopefully the wide release that is promised at the end of the year will actually happen.

 

[ndallas1983]

So you guys are all probably correct about the beta. I bought it from a dealership Saturday and it had someone else's name on it - because our the dealership didn't know how to remove them. We ended up barely getting home because we couldn't supercharge.

I remember seeing a list of checkboxes in Autopilot that had Beta in them. I was confused at why I would turn on those checkboxes because the car had the $199/mo Full Self Drive feature purchased still?

There's some really big confusion to me about Autopilot & Full Self Drive. When I double click down on the shifter, I get a blue wheel icon and the car completely steers for me. When I click the map icon for navigation, the car will try to navigate me there. So is this all Autopilot? Do I need the $199/mo Full Self Drive for that feature?

You guys might save me some money here, I definitely don't want the car to do everything on its own, especially after 5+ events happening on a 200 mile trip home my first evening having it. Not to mention I almost caused an accident because the car slammed on the brakes in the middle of the highway, slammed on the brakes on an exit, ran some stop signs (haha) - and it almost threw us over a sharp turn into a guard rail/ditch.

Again no complaints. I know what Beta means.

I'm a programmer, so this stuff doesn't surprise me.

Maybe you guys can tell me, if you push down twice and your icon next to the D/P/R turns blue and your steering wheel takes over, is that not Full Self Drive? If not, what is it - Autopilot?

What's the difference? I've seen youtube videos of their Tesla's moving through complex traffic patterns. That definitely does not feel like the mode I was in.

As for software versions, I updated to the latest one (Advanced mode). My wife is out in the car now, so I don't have pictures. But I will be sure to get pictures for you guys to tell me what's up with my Tesla. Stand by until this evening.

Thanks so much for answering me!

 

[ndallas1983]

Oh and at the top of my screen while it was driving on its own it said "Chill".

 

[ndallas1983]

Ok so the previous owner removed, Full Self Drive came off the car yesterday - I had the FSD on when I brought it home Saturday night (when I came up with the list up top).

I will get pictures tonight, you guys can let me know if I should turn off FSD or keep it on - Also why would Tesla charge $199/mo for something I can't use, that would be kind of pointless and stupid of me to spend money on right? They would have stopped me if this were a bad idea or even impossible to use?

I just went into the Tesla App and purchased Full Self Drive:

You've Subscribed to Full Self-Driving Capability​

Model 3 VIN 5YJ3E1EA3MF994852​

Includes Navigate on Autopilot Autopark Auto Lane Change Smart Summon Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control​

Coming later this year Autosteer on City Streets​

You will be auto-billed monthly starting December 8, 2022.​

 

[JulienW]

First you need to read the manual. Again you are conflating FSD Capability with FSD Beta. They are totally different. You had the FSD Capability subscription removed. You can add it back for $200 a month but this is NOT FSD Beta. After adding back you would then need to apply for FSD Beta and pass and maintain the Safety Score test. Then wait on Tesla to possibly invite you.


When you single click the lever you turn on TACC and a Double click then you are Turing on Auto Steer also which is aka: Autopilot. AGAIN PLEASE read your manual.

EDIT: Just to add if you have updated to 44.x.x software you are no longer eligible for FSD Beta. You must be on 36.x.x or lower in order to have a chance (at least for now).

EDIT: Also to help you understand. FSD Beta SHOULD actually be called Autosteer on City Streets Beta that is listed as "coming later this year" (not happening).

 

[ndallas1983]

First you need to read the manual. Again you are conflating FSD Capability with FSD Beta. They are totally different. You had the FSD Capability subscription removed. You can add it back for $200 a month but this is NOT FSD Beta. After adding back you would then need to apply for FSD Beta and pass and maintain the Safety Score test. Then wait on Tesla to possibly invite you.


When you single click the lever you turn on TACC and a Double click then you are Turing on Auto Steer also which is aka: Autopilot. AGAIN PLEASE read your manual.

EDIT: Just to add if you have updated to 44.x.x software you are no longer eligible for FSD Beta. You must be on 36.x.x or lower in order to have a chance (at least for now).

EDIT: Also to help you understand. FSD Beta SHOULD actually be called Autosteer on City Streets Beta that is listed as "coming later this year" (not happening).

This is extremely good advice. I will need to read the manual. We got the car at 8 PM with a 3 hour drive home, so reading the manual should have been done before we came to get the car. We had no idea what we were getting into.

I'm glad that FSD Capability and FSD Beta are not the same thing.

I'm curious, for a new driver who wants to contribute (considering I will read the manual), do you recommend I turn on FSD Beta, or wait until I've grown more comfortable with FSD Capability?

I shouldn't have flipped the Beta switches, that might be why we had a rough time.

 

[JulienW]

....I'm curious, for a new driver who wants to contribute (considering I will read the manual), do you recommend I turn on FSD Beta, or wait until I've grown more comfortable with FSD Capability?

I shouldn't have flipped the Beta switches, that might be why we had a rough time.

You CAN'T "turn on" FSD Beta because you are not in the FSD Beta program and you don't have the software. In the picture I posted above you will NOT see the FSD Beta (red arrow) selection. It will be MIA from your menu. You will see the other choices since you subscribed to the Capability subscription. If you cancel the Capability subscription you will just have Autosteer and Visualizations Preview. The other will be grayed out.

 

[ndallas1983]

You CAN'T "turn on" FSD Beta because you are not in the FSD Beta program and you don't have the software. In the picture I posted above you will NOT see the FSD Beta (red arrow) selection. It will be MIA from your menu. You will see the other choices since you subscribed to the Capability subscription. If you cancel the Capability subscription you will just have Autosteer and Visualizations Preview. The other will be grayed out.

When my wife gets home I will take pictures - hopefully the Beta features that I turned on were not related to FSD. Hopefully they're gone!

Now if I want to participate in the beta program, is that impossible now? Advice on how to sign up for that?

 

[TresLA]

When my wife gets home I will take pictures - hopefully the Beta features that I turned on were not related to FSD. Hopefully they're gone!

Now if I want to participate in the beta program, is that impossible now? Advice on how to sign up for that?

You aren’t the first to be confused, so I wouldn’t feel bad (or maybe you don’t and that’s just fine ha). But as others have pointed out, it sounds like you’re conflating the two (“FSD Capability” purchase or subscription with “FSD beta” early release program). The switches that you flipped on and say “Autosteer” and “Navigate on Autopilot” are both production features available to anyone that has purchased or subscribed to “FSD Capability” package. In the car display, both features are labeled as “beta” just to indicate they aren’t perfect and Tesla is releasing liability since the driver is still responsible even when those features are enabled and used.

The YouTube videos you reference and what is officially called “FSD beta” is a limited early release that you have to sign up for, then jump through Safety Score hoops for at least a week, but at this point Tesla hasn’t been letting more people/cars into the program. You initially sign up by 1) purchase or subscribe to FSD Capability and 2) tap the “Request Full Self Driving beta” button (and read the screens full of info that follow), and again you are not guaranteed entrance in to the program.

Double tapping (down) the right stalk is how you enable Autosteer (production autopilot), but if your car is allowed into the FSD beta program, it is also how one enables FSD beta (Navigate on Surface Streets). If you double push down the stalk and you see red and yellow curbs in the car visualization, then it’s the rare FSD beta (last I remember only about 160,000 cars have it now out of a few million Teslas). If you double push down the stalk and only see a single blue line down the middle or two blue lines on either side of the car visualization, then that’s just production Autopilot (which again, is still officially in beta, but isn’t the “FSD beta” limited early release program).

Please post what version of the software you have. You can find it in the in-car menu => software section, or just look in your Tesla phone app at the bottom of the main screen for that car. That will clearly indicate to us which software you have and what features you have available (i.e. - whether you have “FSD beta” or not).

 

[TresLA]

I'm curious, for a new driver who wants to contribute (considering I will read the manual), do you recommend I turn on FSD Beta, or wait until I've grown more comfortable with FSD Capability?

I would say it doesn’t matter. Whether just getting used to Autopilot or just getting used to FSD beta, both require diligence and a readiness to take over at a moments notice. Both production AP and FSD beta are amazing features that do great maybe 50% or 95% of the time, but when it comes to driving in the real world, even 5% exactly the worst decision can mean 100% car accident. In other words, when first trying out any of these ADAS features, proceed with extreme caution. It’s only after experience and varied environments and situations do you even start to instinctively know when you can relax a little, or when Autopilot or FSD beta is about to fail horribly. You just get used to the idiosyncrasies and will feel that you’re probably going to have to take over in a second or so.

And again, even signing up to request FSD beta means you probably won’t be getting it anytime soon. We just don’t know Since Tesla has long paused allowing more cars into the FSD beta program.

 

[clydeiii]

OP, enroll in the beta immediately. Who knows when you’ll be let in, but you must get in the queue now to even have a shot. While you wait, you’ll learn a ton about AP and NoA and Safety Score.

Don’t wait.

 

[clydeiii]

while you wait, watch this

 

[JulienW]

When my wife gets home I will take pictures - hopefully the Beta features that I turned on were not related to FSD. Hopefully they're gone!

Now if I want to participate in the beta program, is that impossible now? Advice on how to sign up for that?

You apply in the Menu and then get reddy for a rude awakening as you learn to fight (and hate) the Safety Score App. Luckily Tesla has lowered the Safety Score needed to apply. Unfortunately no one knows for sure what the best method is on being selected. Best practices are to keep and improve your Safety Score and to drive on AP as much as possible. Other that that it is all conjecture. Once in the queue you could be selected in a few weeks or it could be (more likely) months.

Also if sharing the car you will need to have your wife onboard. Fighting the Safety Score is a BIG challenge and will require 100% detection and effort on EVERY single drive. Prepare for lots of disappointments and setbacks but keep fighting and it is doable.

 

[clydeiii]

It’s pretty trivial to have an 80 safety score. Don’t worry OP, just drive normally and you’ll be fine.

 

[JulienW]

It’s pretty trivial to have an 80 safety score. Don’t worry OP, just drive normally and you’ll be fine.

Is it lowered to 80 now? I was thinking 90 or so needed now. I remember the "good old days" when it was 97 (I think).

 

[clydeiii]

It’s 80. I’m sitting at 99 and don’t drive any differently than I would if I didn’t have a score (I’m on Tesla insurance).

 

[ndallas1983]

Hey guys here come the pictures.

Oh and does anyone know why when I open the glove box it makes 2 loud knocks and does nothing? I tried scheduling service with Tesla and I can't get a hold of anyone. Apparently there's only 3 places to service a Tesla near Dallas.

Also anyone know why the air conditioning started smelling like Vinegar? Tesla wants $100 for the filter, no idea if that will fix the smell.

Car is 1 year old, 24k miles and already we've found 3 major problems. Is this common for you guys as well?

You guys might like the last photo showing the best of both worlds.

My daughter picked pink/purple for the car color... Besides, my wife will be the one who drives this car 80% of the time <grumble>. I work from home.