Tesla employee killed in crash involving FSD?

[clydeiii]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2024/tesla-full-self-driving-fatal-crash

WaPo reporting on an FSD-involved fatality of a Tesla employee. Did we already know about this or is this breaking news?

Hans von Ohain and Erik Rossiter were on their way to play golf one afternoon in 2022 when von Ohain’s Tesla suddenly swerved off Upper Bear Creek Road. The car’s driver-assistance software, Full Self-Driving, was struggling to navigate the mountain curves, forcing von Ohain repeatedly to yank it back on course.

“The first time it happened, I was like, ‘Is that normal?’” recalled Rossiter, who described the five-mile drive on the outskirts of Denver as “uncomfortable.” “And he was like, ‘Yeah, that happens every now and then.’”

Hours later, on the way home, the Tesla Model 3 barreled into a tree and exploded in flames, killing von Ohain, a Tesla employee and devoted fan of CEO Elon Musk. Rossiter, who survived the crash, told emergency responders that von Ohain was using an “auto-drive feature on the Tesla” that “just ran straight off the road,” according to a 911 dispatch recording obtained by The Washington Post. In a recent interview, Rossiter said he believes that von Ohain was using Full Self-Driving, which — if true — would make his death the first known fatality involving Tesla’s most advanced driver-assistance technology.

 

[diplomat33]

Rossiter said that Ohain was using an "auto-drive" feature. That could be AP, not FSD beta. I am not sure we can assume it was FSD beta.

But also, if they were having repeated issues with autosteer struggling with that mountainous road, why did they keep using it? This is a horrible tragedy but it seems like they were irresponsible to continue using autosteer on a mountainous road that was dangerous and that the system could not handle.

 

[powertoold]

How about a news story about every person who fell asleep and Tesla's AP/FSD prevented an accident?

I know of one coworker who did exactly that.

I also know of another coworker who wasn't driving a Tesla and got into a severe accident.

 

[ewoodrick]

I've driven some pretty curvy roads over mountains and with 180 switchbacks. FSD does as it is supposed to, slows down for the turns.

 

[fholbert]

Rossiter said that Ohain was using an "auto-drive" feature. That could be AP, not FSD beta. I am not sure we can assume it was FSD beta.

Read the article again.

Rossiter said he believes that von Ohain was using Full Self-Driving, which — if true — would make his death the first known fatality involving Tesla’s most advanced driver-assistance technology.

 

[diplomat33]

Read the article again.

I did read the article.

"Rossiter, who survived the crash, told emergency responders that von Ohain was using an “auto-drive feature on the Tesla"

Auto-drive feature does not necessarily mean FSD beta. it could mean AP.

"In a recent interview, Rossiter said he believes that von Ohain was using Full Self-Driving, which — if true — would make his death the first known fatality..."

So, Rossiter thinks Ohain was using FSD beta but he is not sure. It is not conclusive that it was FSD beta. Personally, I have my doubts that it was FSD beta.

 

[ewoodrick]

And it's an event that's over a year old!! Do we even care it we knew about it? It's just sensationlism.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I did read the article.

"Rossiter, who survived the crash, told emergency responders that von Ohain was using an “auto-drive feature on the Tesla"

Auto-drive feature does not necessarily mean FSD beta. it could mean AP.

"In a recent interview, Rossiter said he believes that von Ohain was using Full Self-Driving, which — if true — would make his death the first known fatality..."

So, Rossiter thinks Ohain was using FSD beta but he is not sure. It is not conclusive that it was FSD beta. Personally, I have my doubts that it was FSD beta.

This was my first question about this too.

There is a video in the article. Can someone identify whether he is using FSD Beta in that video based on the appearance of the screen? Obviously there is the complexity of single stack (this was on the freeway, and the visualizations certainly do not look the way FSD does today on the freeway). But I seem to recall blue tentacle meaning FSD Beta and blue lane lines meaning AP...was that the case even on the freeway, before single stack? Anyway, I don't remember the details before and after single stack release about how it looked on the freeway and whether this video was taken before or after single stack, so putting it out here where I am sure someone can recall the exact version being used.

Anyway if the video capture below actually shows him using FSD Beta, then I think it's reasonable to assume that if the feature was engaged at the time of the crash, he was using FSD Beta, not AP (it's not really common to switch back and forth).

Unfortunately, based on the story it sounds like we'll never know whether any assistance feature was engaged, since according to Tesla no data connection existed at the time of the accident, and the car was burnt badly enough it was impossible to determine from the vehicle itself. That's somewhat inconsistent with other information in the story (where it is misstated (I think) that FSD was engaged at least 30 seconds before the crash - that's not the criteria), but maybe the complaint mentioned in the story just alleged that that was the case.

 

[diplomat33]

The driver had a blood alcohol level of 0.26, more than 3x the legal limit, but sure blame FSD. WAPO didn’t give any direct evidence that FSD Beta was engaged when the crash happened. Moral of the whole story, don’t drink and drive.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757455492127793394

So the driver was highly intoxicated. My guess is FSD beta was not even on. I think the passenger is saying FSD was on, to shift the blame away from his friend who was driving drunk. We've seen it happen before where people try to blame FSD to avoid admitting that they are at fault.

 

[diplomat33]

This was my first question about this too.

There is a video in the article. Can someone identify whether he is using FSD Beta in that video based on the appearance of the screen? Obviously there is the complexity of single stack (this was on the freeway, and the visualizations certainly do not look the way FSD does today on the freeway). But I seem to recall blue tentacle meaning FSD Beta and blue lane lines meaning AP...was that the case even on the freeway, before single stack? Anyway, I don't remember the details before and after single stack release about how it looked on the freeway and whether this video was taken before or after single stack, so putting it out here where I am sure someone can recall the exact version being used.

Anyway if the video capture below actually shows him using FSD Beta, then I think it's reasonable to assume that if the feature was engaged at the time of the crash, he was using FSD Beta, not AP (it's not really common to switch back and forth).

Unfortunately, based on the story it sounds like we'll never know whether any assistance feature was engaged, since according to Tesla no data connection existed at the time of the accident, and the car was burnt badly enough it was impossible to determine from the vehicle itself. That's somewhat inconsistent with other information in the story (where it is misstated (I think) that FSD was engaged at least 30 seconds before the crash - that's not the criteria), but maybe the complaint mentioned in the story just alleged that that was the case.

View attachment 1017949

From the picture, that looks like NOA, not FSD beta.

 

[JB47394]

Unfortunately, based on the story it sounds like we'll never know whether any assistance feature was engaged

Or whether the driver disengaged it without being aware (after "repeatedly" taking over control), and then let the car go straight off the road. This was in the days when taking over steering would leave TACC active. I disengaged FSD once without being aware of it because I was distracted by talking to my passengers (about the car, of course). Being on a winding mountain road with a passenger would be that much more challenging.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Or whether the driver disengaged it without being aware (after "repeatedly" taking over control), and then let the car go straight off the road

That is less relevant to me. I just wanted to know what his default assistance tool was.

Even if FSD (or perhaps FSD Beta) was not actually engaged at the time of the accident, if it was engaged just prior, that is really all that is relevant. No one is claiming that FSD (or FSD Beta) just drove off the road (though it is possible in certain specific situations, no one is claiming that here).

What happens when FSD is not engaged is super super important as well, when close in time to an engagement. Dealing with this is part of the driver assistance feature. (For example, when disengaged, the assistance feature could prevent that sort of road departure. )

 

[SSonnentag]

Or whether the driver disengaged it without being aware (after "repeatedly" taking over control), and then let the car go straight off the road. This was in the days when taking over steering would leave TACC active. I disengaged FSD once without being aware of it because I was distracted by talking to my passengers (about the car, of course). Being on a winding mountain road with a passenger would be that much more challenging.

Wrenching control away from FSD still leaves TACC active today. I do this all the time in problem areas that I drive where FSD wants to swerve me out of my lane.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Wrenching control away from FSD still leaves TACC active today.

This was true at the time of the accident when disengaging by wheel torque, and there was no way to change the behavior, but today it is configurable. (As has been requested by users for years.)

 

[JulienW]

Wrenching control away from FSD still leaves TACC active today. I do this all the time in problem areas that I drive where FSD wants to swerve me out of my lane.

No, unless you have it switched to double pull.

 

[JulienW]

Why is crash from 2 years ago a "current" topic?

 

[diplomat33]

Why is crash from 2 years ago a "current" topic?

Because the media is trying to find an accident caused by Tesla FSD.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Why is crash from 2 years ago a "current" topic?

Because it is alleged to be using FSD Beta or FSD (which is different) (as the article says, it does not seem they could determine what was actually in use, if anything).

In my view, it seems that excellent driver assist systems would prevent road departure when they are not engaged. Hopefully that will happen soon. Seems like there is room for potentially huge safety improvements if this could be made to work.

 

[SSonnentag]

No, unless you have it switched to double pull.

Ah, new info to me. Thanks! I like the double-pull. Is there a way to enable TACC when single-pull is enabled?

 

[gaswalla]

Who cares what FSD did. If you’re intoxicated and crash, we know why that happened.