Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[SidetrackedSue]

Anyone still holding out from upgrading?
I’m still on 2023.44.1

I'm still on 2023.27.7 (11.4.7.3), awaiting (in vain) for an LTE delivered update for the recalls.

I'm not actively avoiding updates, we just don't have wifi at home.

At first, I was holding out to see if LTE delivery of updates was still a 'thing'. Since there have been two recalls since my last update, and nothing was pushed to me over LTE, I no longer expect this will be a delivery option going forward (it was when we first got our car, and we have premium connectivity so it isn't as if we are looking for something for 'free', we already pay for extra data use by our car.)

Then I was glad I had started this 'experiment' due to the instability of the first recall update, the frequent recalls to the recall updates in December, the fact that there's nothing I need in the holiday update to warrant the time seeking out wifi for the update and then learning the new UI changes and V11.4.9 quirks (had the first recall been a genuine safety issue, I would have done so, but screaming goats can wait.)

Then the V12 imminent roll-out rumours and the second recall (can't recall the order of those events) happened and I resigned myself to updating to 2023.44.30.8 to get the first recall, then 2024.x to get the second recall (losing the icons that I personally think tesla made more self-explanatory) so I could update to V12 when it was stable enough to warrant my time to learn. Before I got around to doing so, another recall to a recall update happened for me.

My 2023.44.30.8 update offer was rescinded and I am currently offered 2023.44.30.14 which gives me both recalls, V11.4.9, and the holiday update's screaming goat. So one-stop update for me (as opposed to recall 1, holiday update, recall 2).

Which, ironically, leaves me, the non-user FSDb due to safety issues (except on controlled access highways), in the position to get V12 before those keeners, who updated immediately when 2024.x was offered thinking that was the route to V12. Although, the 2024.x stream may never have been offered to me since I own FSD so I'm not sure I would have been allowed to jump onto the 'wrong' FSD update stream.

We discussed updating yesterday (single car family so we both have to be on board with changes) because to get a stable V12 that includes highways, I'm pretty sure we'll have to update to V11.4.9 first. Last April we had to do a 'double' update, first to something I didn't care about and then a week later in order to get the UI change I was holding out for and V11, so we'll likely do the same Nov - April break between updates again.

For now, we decided to continue to wait, either until V12 is compelling, or we are compelled to by service work before we roll out of warranty.

 

[Bouba]

Your car will not permanently disable autosteer.

Trade your car in for something you will enjoy. It might cost you a little money, but it seems that you will be more satisfied and live a less stressful life.

More importantly he will stress us out less

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I just wanted to clarify that I don't use the autosteer anywhere except the interstate and it doesn't even cut the mustard there. If I'm in the right lane and there's an entry ramp merge lane the darned car veers into the "center" of the lane. If I'm looking down the road 100 meters or so and I see brake lights my car should too. No. it flies on down the road till the guy in front of me slams on his brakes, then... guess what? And in stop and go traffic, why does the car not create a buffer space, but rather drives like the guy in front of me constantly zooming forward and slamming on brakes? I have it in chill mode. This thing just is not ready for prime time IMO. Thanks again for your kind reply.

I agree with your observations, but have found from driving in other jurisdictions that road markings make a huge difference. This might be something the NN will fix.

I had no problem with merging on-ramp lanes on controlled access highways in Quebec but in Ontario the merge lane markings are different and I experienced that centering problem.

If you are on an undivided highway that offers up passing areas, Ontario keeps the dashed white line right to the end of the 'pull over and let others pass' lane so even on V11, it will not gracefully move back into the through-lane when my lane ends. On V10 when testing it with no other car in sight, we'd end up on the shoulder (and a takeover,) On V11 it often swerves back into the main lane in what feels like an "OMG, the lane is ending without warning!!!!" move. It will respond to the turn-signal suggestion of moving over long before the lane ends but, at least for me, it will not consistently do that when I'm close to the end of the lane, just at the "lane ending ahead" sign at the side of the road.

In other jurisdictions, the dashed line ends before the lane ends and the car will gracefully move over (although it doesn't signal, which is a courtesy move but signaling in general is something that is not great in V11.)

All this shows 1. programming a car to drive is hard, and 2. that check box agreeing to pay attention, keep hands on the wheel and being prepared to take over when the car does something unexpected is not kidding. If you thought you were actually buying a vehicle with autopilot or full self driving you have now discovered what I learned the hard way, my car is not what I thought I was getting. Even the cruise control will not always behave the way you expect and will lower your speed if it decides it isn't comfortable. That happened to me while driving the speed limit set for a construction zone (and manually steering because the barriers made a narrow lane I didn't trust auto-steer to handle). I had set the TACC in order to maintain speed while I was focused on steering, so I would not be the "little old lady, creeping along." The steering became easier at one point and I looked down and discovered I was going almost 20kph below the set speed and just 3/4 of the limit. I felt that if my cruise control wasn't comfortable with the speed I set, at the very least it should audibly tell me it would slow down because I wasn't looking at the screen, I was steering the car. I'm sure the lineup of traffic behind me would have appreciated that as well.

The demand of the system to look at the screen while nagging you because you are looking at the screen is a major frustration for current AP and FSDb users. Things could change but that doesn't mean they will get better, they could get worse. Never underestimate how updating can make your experience with your tesla worse. And keep that in mind when deciding if you are going to keep or trade in the car.

 

[SalisburySam]

Amazing. That’s quite a stand you’re both taking! Post a pic of the UI? I could use a trip down memory lane…

How much of the UI can you take? Main screen? Option screens?

Also, I’m not so much taking a stand as enjoying that which works well on my car. I do use, enjoy, and value the excellent AutoPark I have, along with the frequently-used Summon, and the occasionally-used-and-actually-works-pretty-well Smart Summon in the right place. When those come back in some sort of reliable fashion, I’ll be happy to “upgrade.” Also, I’m pretty happy with my EAP/FSD services that do what they do, albeit not much, well. For me, the myriad of new “features” since my software version is of lesser value that those above.

 

[Knightshade]

How much of the UI can you take? Main screen? Option screens?

Also, I’m not so much taking a stand as enjoying that which works well on my car. I do use, enjoy, and value the excellent AutoPark I have, along with the frequently-used Summon, and the occasionally-used-and-actually-works-pretty-well Smart Summon in the right place. When those come back in some sort of reliable fashion, I’ll be happy to “upgrade.” Also, I’m pretty happy with my EAP/FSD services that do what they do, albeit not much, well. For me, the myriad of new “features” since my software version is of lesser value that those above.

I'm a bit confused here.

I've got a 2018 Model 3.

I'm on the latest 12.3 FSD firmware.

Summon, smart summon, and autopark all work just fine. Used 2 of the 3 yesterday.

AFAIK it's only the no-USS cars that lack these features, has nothing to do with firmware version.


EDIT- looking back at your post it seems it's the general switch to vision you are concerned about.... on the contrary from your perception, autopark in particular got much better after this switch-- finally being able to "see" spots a ton more often/easier, and being able to park in spots without requiring a car on both sides of the spot. This was very definitely an upgrade not a downgrade.

 

[navguy12]

I agree with your observations, but have found from driving in other jurisdictions that road markings make a huge difference. This might be something the NN will fix.

I had no problem with merging on-ramp lanes on controlled access highways in Quebec but in Ontario the merge lane markings are different and I experienced that centering problem.

If you are on an undivided highway that offers up passing areas, Ontario keeps the dashed white line right to the end of the 'pull over and let others pass' lane so even on V11, it will not gracefully move back into the through-lane when my lane ends. On V10 when testing it with no other car in sight, we'd end up on the shoulder (and a takeover,) On V11 it often swerves back into the main lane in what feels like an "OMG, the lane is ending without warning!!!!" move. It will respond to the turn-signal suggestion of moving over long before the lane ends but, at least for me, it will not consistently do that when I'm close to the end of the lane, just at the "lane ending ahead" sign at the side of the road.

In other jurisdictions, the dashed line ends before the lane ends and the car will gracefully move over (although it doesn't signal, which is a courtesy move but signaling in general is something that is not great in V11.)

All this shows 1. programming a car to drive is hard, and 2. that check box agreeing to pay attention, keep hands on the wheel and being prepared to take over when the car does something unexpected is not kidding. If you thought you were actually buying a vehicle with autopilot or full self driving you have now discovered what I learned the hard way, my car is not what I thought I was getting. Even the cruise control will not always behave the way you expect and will lower your speed if it decides it isn't comfortable. That happened to me while driving the speed limit set for a construction zone (and manually steering because the barriers made a narrow lane I didn't trust auto-steer to handle). I had set the TACC in order to maintain speed while I was focused on steering, so I would not be the "little old lady, creeping along." The steering became easier at one point and I looked down and discovered I was going almost 20kph below the set speed and just 3/4 of the limit. I felt that if my cruise control wasn't comfortable with the speed I set, at the very least it should audibly tell me it would slow down because I wasn't looking at the screen, I was steering the car. I'm sure the lineup of traffic behind me would have appreciated that as well.

The demand of the system to look at the screen while nagging you because you are looking at the screen is a major frustration for current AP and FSDb users. Things could change but that doesn't mean they will get better, they could get worse. Never underestimate how updating can make your experience with your tesla worse. And keep that in mind when deciding if you are going to keep or trade in the car.

I’m still waiting for this system to look ahead and understand where in the lane it should be, instead of looking down at painted lines…and look ahead to recognize incipient situations and efficiently deal with it instead of blindly driving into a situation because the system looks down for painted line, not 20 seconds ahead.

Your observations about TACC set speeds not being 100% reliable is continuously demonstrated on HWY 401 between Mississauga and Milton, where the new section of 12 lane highway is somehow not aligned to the map data the car uses and the cruise control will drop speed all on its own numerous times on that section of road.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I'm not actively avoiding updates, we just don't have wifi at home.

Assuming you've done other updates, then you have a solution for getting them. I too don't have a WiFi connection at home (live in a condo and my garage is too far away for my WiFi to reach) so I have made every single update in the last 4+ years via my phone's hotspot. I suspect you have a similar way of downloading.

So, yes, you are actively avoiding updates.

At first, I was holding out to see if LTE delivery of updates was still a 'thing'. Since there have been two recalls since my last update, and nothing was pushed to me over LTE, I no longer expect this will be a delivery option going forward (it was when we first got our car, and we have premium connectivity so it isn't as if we are looking for something for 'free', we already pay for extra data use by our car.)

According to your signature, you have a 2020 Y. Unless they did something special for new Y buyers at that time, updates have not been delivered over LTE in the lifetime of your car (I've been a 3 owner since August 2019 and have never had an update over LTE).

 

[uscbucsfan]

Assuming you've done other updates, then you have a solution for getting them. I too don't have a WiFi connection at home (live in a condo and my garage is too far away for my WiFi to reach) so I have made every single update in the last 4+ years via my phone's hotspot. I suspect you have a similar way of downloading.

So, yes, you are actively avoiding updates.


According to your signature, you have a 2020 Y. Unless they did something special for new Y buyers at that time, updates have not been delivered over LTE in the lifetime of your car (I've been a 3 owner since August 2019 and have never had an update over LTE).

I've had early FSD updates over LTE.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I've had early FSD updates over LTE.

And when was that (year)?

 

[uscbucsfan]

And when was that (year)?

Early 2022 was the last I had an LTE update.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Early 2022 was the last I had an LTE update.

Okay. Weird as that is not normal from what I've experienced and read.

What car do you have?

 

[uscbucsfan]

Okay. Weird as that is not normal from what I've experienced and read.

What car do you have?

I had 2 2021 MYs, but now have a 22 MS and a 21 MY. Others received Beta updates over LTE reported here. I had a download queue at the airport last time, downloaded and installed while traveling. I didn't connect to wifi.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I had 2 2021 MYs, but now have a 22 MS and a 21 MY. Others received Beta updates over LTE reported here. I had a download queue at the airport last time, downloaded and installed while traveling. I didn't connect to wifi.

I can't explain it then. Like I said, historically, and everything I've read here is that downloads are not effectuated over LTE. Your experience is very much the exception (though it may be because you're on FSDb).

 

[Supcom]

I can't explain it then. Like I said, historically, and everything I've read here is that downloads are not effectuated over LTE. Your experience is very much the exception (though it may be because you're on FSDb).

FSDb users back in the safety score days received updates via cellular. Some people have stated that Tesla will eventually push out recall updates via cellular, but only after an extended time has passed. Whether they will push out an update that does not remedy a recall is questionable.

If you don't download a recall via WiFi, Tesla likley pushes it via cellular eventually because they are legally required to remedy the issue at no charge to the customer. They could offer to install the software for you at a service center, but that would almost certainly cost them more in labor than a few GB of cell data.

 

[69KWH]

Chances are if you received a download over LTE while travelling, what actually happened is your vehicle connected to Tesla's wifi automatically at a supercharger and downloaded the update. I saw this happen firsthand in New Jersey a few months ago.

 

[JulienW]

Original FSD Beta 10.2 tester and we did or could if not connected to WiFi, get all the updates over cell up on until the program was expanded. I got all of mine over cell during this time. And an added bonus we were getting updates almost every 2 weeks. Was nice since I don't have WiFi and use my iPhone. At the time it was not too big of a deal for Tesla since there were so few of us.

As for NHTSA recalls if you don't update Tesla will eventually send it to you over cell. There is no hurry since recalls can take a year or more to complete. If Tesla didn't send it over cell then in a year or so they would be required to send a new letter informing the owner to schedule a service appointment and do it at the Service Center. Much easer/cheeper to just send it over cell (eventually).

But again there is no hurry for a recall to be completed since it is based on traditional/legacy recall methods.

 

[Wattsisname]

Sure. But the CNN headline as it is written is clickbait and misleading. It preys on fear.

Agreed. However, clickbait pervades the media globally. And to be fair the "eye-catching" headline approach long predates the digital age.
Anyone interested or affected would clarify if dealerships/garages were having to physically modify two million cars.

For further fairness, the article refers to the solution being a software update. So, not necessarily part of a " Smear Tesla"
campaign........ then again.....
just because we are paranoid.........

 

[uscbucsfan]

Chances are if you received a download over LTE while travelling, what actually happened is your vehicle connected to Tesla's wifi automatically at a supercharger and downloaded the update. I saw this happen firsthand in New Jersey a few months ago.

No.

That's not what happened. It wasn't a one off. Many users received updates over cell. I had a new update download and install in long term airport parking once.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Folks, let it go. It doesn't matter what we've experienced, 69KWH has assured us we are all wrong.

Also, my not getting in my car, driving 20 minutes, sitting there for X minutes (usually 20+) and driving 20 minutes home is ACTIVELY avoiding updating my car. There is absolutely no excuse why Elon doesn't deserve both that hour of my life (actually 3 because I didn't rush out and update each of the three times updates were offered to me in the past 3 months) AND to change my car in unpredictable and unwanted ways. I must be a slave to Lord Elon.

Mea culpa, I didn't understand the code of the tesla freak who can't understand there are people living lives their own way and not slaves to expectations of the delusional.

 

[dansev]

Folks, let it go. It doesn't matter what we've experienced, 69KWH has assured us we are all wrong.

Also, my not getting in my car, driving 20 minutes, sitting there for X minutes (usually 20+) and driving 20 minutes home is ACTIVELY avoiding updating my car. There is absolutely no excuse why Elon doesn't deserve both that hour of my life (actually 3 because I didn't rush out and update each of the three times updates were offered to me in the past 3 months) AND to change my car in unpredictable and unwanted ways. I must be a slave to Lord Elon.

Mea culpa, I didn't understand the code of the tesla freak who can't understand there are people living lives their own way and not slaves to expectations of the delusional.

I scrolled up a bit to try to understand the context of this post. But I’m very confused by it still!