Model S Plaid vs Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs my Model 3 Performance (after having driven all three).

[danp]

I'd love to test a new Model S! No loaners or demo cars in my area yet. I could pay ~ $400 for a 1 day peer-to-peer rental (e.g. via Turo), but I'd rather spend that money elsewhere.

Yeah, I've been harassing my local store every few weeks to see if they have any news on MS test drives. I did manage to sit in one this week, the interior is definitely a big improvement over my 2015 P85D. Just wish sunroofs that opened were still a thing, I'll definitely miss that.

And I'm in the same boat - I have a LR on order with June delivery, but that's contingent on actually being able to drive one in the meantime. I think I will go test drive a Taycan as well, I really like the look and practicality of the Cross Turismo, and after years of having only Teslas in our family, I kind of have an itch for something different. I'd have a hard time with the tech/software downgrade, though, and would miss one pedal driving.

 

[Babak]

And both absolutely compete in a similar market. Most of us are not tracking these cars, so at the end of the day if you’re shopping for a 4/5-door performance EV in this size, you’ll cross-shop a Taycan and a Model S.

Exactly what drew me to this thread! After 7 years with a BMW 650i, I got my (previous) MS and loved it because it wasn't a marginal improvement over my last car. I'm on my 2nd lease now, another MS (LR) that ends in April. I'm keeping a short list of options, and Taycan is on the top right now. Your posts in this thread have helped a lot and if I was getting my first electric car, I would probably go for the Plaid, but as a 3rd Model S, it feels like a very boring marginal improvement. Any further thoughts on what you would do in my shoes?

First time I hear the term "one-pedal driving". Do you mean Porsche lacks the regenerative braking that lets you use the brakes much less frequently?

 

[tm1v2]

Yeah, I've been harassing my local store every few weeks to see if they have any news on MS test drives. I did manage to sit in one this week, the interior is definitely a big improvement over my 2015 P85D. Just wish sunroofs that opened were still a thing, I'll definitely miss that.

And I'm in the same boat - I have a LR on order with June delivery, but that's contingent on actually being able to drive one in the meantime. I think I will go test drive a Taycan as well, I really like the look and practicality of the Cross Turismo, and after years of having only Teslas in our family, I kind of have an itch for something different. I'd have a hard time with the tech/software downgrade, though, and would miss one pedal driving.

We're on the same page about the Taycan too, including the lack of one pedal driving. I was and still am intrigued by the Cross Turismo, it looks like it might have more adult-friendly headroom in the back seat, and more practical ground clearance, but I haven't come across one in person yet. The Taycan Turbo sedan I sat in at a dealer oozed quality and sportiness but was sorely lacking in practicality (can't fit in back seat, too low to ground)...more big sports car than practical family car. A true Porsche I suppose, but in sedan form not exact a Model S replacement for us. They just laughed when I asked about a test drive, and they had no idea when they might have a Cross Turismo to show.

(We were actually at the Porsche dealer to test a Macan. What a boring and almost junky car. The suspension tuning was very good, especially for a crossover, but nothing else about the car was appealing. It's cramped for a crossover, the interior is outdated and mediocre quality, and while I guess it's sporty for a crossover it still pales in driving experience compared to a good sports sedan/hatch/wagon. I'd rather have either a sporty sedan/wagon, or a more spacious and useful crossover.)

 

[tm1v2]

First time I hear the term "one-pedal driving". Do you mean Porsche lacks the regenerative braking that lets you use the brakes much less frequently?

Per specs/articles the Taycan does regen braking as strong as any EV, but only via the brake pedal. Lifting off the accelerator just coasts. There is no option to enable lift-off regen, Porsche has specifically said they don't want it.

Whereas all Tesla S3XY do regen exclusively on accelerator lift-off, and the brake pedal only actuates the friction brakes (as far as I know).

I believe most other EVs do both - they have a blended brake pedal that does regen and friction brakes, and also have an option for at least partial regen on accelerator lift-off. If you turn down/off one-pedal driving on most non-Tesla EVs, you still get their full regen via the brake pedal. Some EVs do a better job than others of blending regen + friction brakes on the brake pedal, but I think it never feels quite as natural as keeping regen separate from the brake pedal.

I really like how the Tesla setup gives me separate control of each braking method, and I much prefer one-pedal driving in most driving situations, especially in traffic, or when tearing up twisty roads in Track Mode with regen cranked up.

 

[Babak]

The Taycan does regen braking as strong as any EV, but only via the brake pedal. Lifting off the accelerator just coasts. (Or so I understand it - I haven't driven one yet.)

Whereas all Tesla S3XY do regen exclusively on accelerator lift-off, and the brake pedal only actives the friction brakes (as far as I know).

I believe most other EVs are in-between - they have a blended brake pedal that does regen and friction brakes, and also have an option for at least partial regen on accelerator lift-off.

Some EVs do a much better job of blending regen + friction brakes on the brake pedal than others, but I think it never feels quite as natural as keeping regen separate from the brake pedal. I like how the Tesla setup gives me separate control of each braking method, and I also like the experience of one-pedal driving.

Gotcha, thanks! Yeah, it would suck not to have regen when you take your foot off the accelerator.

My recollection from when I've kept an eye on the energy dashboards has been that it does charge when you put your foot on the brake, as well. I'll verify next time, but it should be easy to check and would make sense to engage both methods of slowing down the car.

 

[tm1v2]

Gotcha, thanks! Yeah, it would suck not to have regen when you take your foot off the accelerator.

My recollection from when I've kept an eye on the energy dashboards has been that it does charge when you put your foot on the brake, as well. I'll verify next time, but it should be easy to check and would make sense to engage both methods of slowing down the car.

Pressing the brake pedal on a Tesla doesn't disable regen, it just separately actuates the friction brakes. It'll still regen at the same time, unless you're braking hard enough that there's nothing left for regen to do.

As for the new S being a large enough improvement...that's a tough one, if you're coming from a fairly recent S. You're absolutely right to condition your purchase on a test drive. For me it's a little easier, at this point a new S is truly an entirely new generation of car compared to my 2013 P85. The only thing left is the looks, which I still love anyways. But I need a test drive first too.

 

[WilliamG]

Exactly what drew me to this thread! After 7 years with a BMW 650i, I got my (previous) MS and loved it because it wasn't a marginal improvement over my last car. I'm on my 2nd lease now, another MS (LR) that ends in April. I'm keeping a short list of options, and Taycan is on the top right now. Your posts in this thread have helped a lot and if I was getting my first electric car, I would probably go for the Plaid, but as a 3rd Model S, it feels like a very boring marginal improvement. Any further thoughts on what you would do in my shoes?

First time I hear the term "one-pedal driving". Do you mean Porsche lacks the regenerative braking that lets you use the brakes much less frequently?

Thank you! As others have mentioned, the new S is a completely different animal to previous generation models. I do not think you'd be bored going to the Plaid from any previous Model S. Yes, the exterior is familiar, but the interior and drivetrain are worlds ahead of the previous models. That said, Tesla 100% does not have its sh*t together when it comes to build quality or quality control in general. My Plaid is in service for the nth time, and I've no idea when I'll see it again. If Tesla could figure out how to build their most expensive car on the road, it'd be a different discussion. The Taycans are built so much better.

 

[BooMan]

Porsche as a brand is more about driver enjoyment, engaging driving characteristics, and quality. The Taycan and Model S are two cars with two different purposes, but both just happen to have the same propulsion method.

Exactly! Different cars for probably different buyers

 

[phaphaphooey]

I test drove a Taycan Turbo S before buying my Plaid. I really wanted to like it and wanted a change of pace after 4 years of Tesla but I just couldn't do it. While I did really like the build quality as well as the styling, the lack of one pedal driving was the main deal killer with the terrible charging infrastructure not far behind. The fact that is has much less storage/occupant space didn't help either. The MS is so much more practical, especially after the redesign.

 

[Babak]

I test drove a Taycan Turbo S before buying my Plaid. I really wanted to like it and wanted a change of pace after 4 years of Tesla but I just couldn't do it. While I did really like the build quality as well as the styling, the lack of one pedal driving was the main deal killer with the terrible charging infrastructure not far behind. The fact that is has much less storage/occupant space didn't help either. The MS is so much more practical, especially after the redesign.

I will definitely test drive it (and maybe other options) before making a final decision, but there are always tradeoffs. I loved how far ahead Tesla was in its infotainment in the old days, and now I'm jealous of the cheapest cars running Android Auto (or Apple Car Play). I'm using bluetooth for music an podcast like I did 15 years ago. Another thing that's ridiculous is having to find a spot under my window to connect to WiFi. They could at least let me download the update on a thumb drive. Finally, are the USB ports usable (USB-C / high amps) in the Plaid or do I still have to carry my own portable battery if I want to (quick) charge the phone?

 

[Zcd1]

Ingress/egress and rear visibility are also demerits for the Taycan.
It does look fantastic though…

 

[whitex]

I'd have a hard time with the tech/software downgrade, though, and would miss one pedal driving.

Taycan has a lot more tech options, such as dynamic chassis management (keeps the car leveled even through turns), rear wheel steering (hides the car size, even though it's the same size as Model S), HUD, FLIR night vision (with animal and pedestrian detection), true surround vision, matrix headlights (not yet enabled in the USA but ready for whenever NHTSA finishes their investigation), blind spot lane change warning in mirrors, round steering wheel with mechanical stalks. No fart-on-demand type features though, so it might be a deal breaker for some. There is a regen you can enable on accelerator lift off, but it's small compared to Tesla. On the other hand, the full regen capability on a Taycan is 4-5x that of a Model S (Taycan regens up to 260KW, Model S I think is ~60KW max)- you get that through the blended brake pedal. The advantages of the blended brake approach is ability to coast without having to "thread the needle" with the accelerator (keep the power graph precisely at 0, no acceleration or deceleration), but the biggest one for me is the same braking/deceleration feel when driving, regardless of the battery temperature or state of charge - no more of the "why is the car not slowing down when I lift off the accelerator? Oh, duh, it's winter" .

 

[whitex]

Pressing the brake pedal on a Tesla doesn't disable regen, it just separately actuates the friction brakes. It'll still regen at the same time, unless you're braking hard enough that there's nothing left for regen to do.

That. You have to look at your power meter when braking if you want to keep your regen while applying the brake pedal, or else you end up slowing down using friction brakes instead of regen.

 

[whitex]

First time I hear the term "one-pedal driving". Do you mean Porsche lacks the regenerative braking that lets you use the brakes much less frequently?

Porsche uses the brake pedal to offer regen up to 5x that of a Model S, so actually much less physical brake usage.

 

[whitex]

And both absolutely compete in a similar market. Most of us are not tracking these cars, so at the end of the day if you’re shopping for a 4/5-door performance EV in this size, you’ll cross-shop a Taycan and a Model S.

I think the Model S competes with the Taycan primarily because Porsche did not have an EV offering before. Had there been a Taycan since 2012, the two buyer segments would likely be quiet likely be much more distinct today. Essentially for a while there Model S was the only game in town for a performance EV, so naturally it attracted buyers from all over the performance car market. Similar thing happened with Model 3/Y segment consumers which at first had no choice but to go with Model S, but once 3/Y came out, they moved on. I think the Model S and Taycan markets will diverge over time. It will be interesting to see how it divides up - after all some Porsche buyers are in it for the hype, and you cannot beat Tesla (i.e. Elon) in that department - fart mode type features gets more headlines than handling features.

PS> Personally I think the EQS will grab a larger share of Model S segment than the Taycan. I drove it, it feels like a luxury Model S (sans Plaid acceleration).

 

[Babak]

Porsche uses the brake pedal to offer regen up to 5x that of a Model S, so actually much less physical brake usage.

Got it, but agree with others that having the car slow down without changing pedals is a great feature. In fact it took me a couple of experiences before it clicked that it wasn't doing that because the battery fully charged, and I now avoid fully charging the battery when possible, because of that.

 

[Babak]

Taycan has a lot more tech options, such as dynamic chassis management (keeps the car leveled even through turns), rear wheel steering (hides the car size, even though it's the same size as Model S), HUD, FLIR night vision (with animal and pedestrian detection), true surround vision, matrix headlights (not yet enabled in the USA but ready for whenever NHTSA finishes their investigation), blind spot lane change warning in mirrors, round steering wheel with mechanical stalks. No fart-on-demand type features though, so it might be a deal breaker for some. There is a regen you can enable on accelerator lift off, but it's small compared to Tesla. On the other hand, the full regen capability on a Taycan is 4-5x that of a Model S (Taycan regens up to 260KW, Model S I think is ~60KW max)- you get that through the blended brake pedal. The advantages of the blended brake approach is ability to coast without having to "thread the needle" with the accelerator (keep the power graph precisely at 0, no acceleration or deceleration), but the biggest one for me is the same braking/deceleration feel when driving, regardless of the battery temperature or state of charge - no more of the "why is the car not slowing down when I lift off the accelerator? Oh, duh, it's winter" .

Harsh, but I agree that Teslas are a mixed bag in terms of tech. The infotainment system sucks big time, and as I said, I'm using only bluetooth these days. But curious if the Porsche phone app offers similar options, including driving off without a key.

 

[Babak]

I think the Model S competes with the Taycan primarily because Porsche did not have an EV offering before. Had there been a Taycan since 2012, the two buyer segments would likely be quiet likely be much more distinct today. Essentially for a while there Model S was the only game in town for a performance EV, so naturally it attracted buyers from all over the performance car market. Similar thing happened with Model 3/Y segment consumers which at first had no choice but to go with Model S, but once 3/Y came out, they moved on. I think the Model S and Taycan markets will diverge over time. It will be interesting to see how it divides up - after all some Porsche buyers are in it for the hype, and you cannot beat Tesla (i.e. Elon) in that department - fart mode type features gets more headlines than handling features.

PS> Personally I think the EQS will grab a larger share of Model S segment than the Taycan. I drove it, it feels like a luxury Model S (sans Plaid acceleration).

The EQS is on my list too, but near the bottom. The interior looks really cool, but the exterior... I just can't!

Thoughts on the Audi e-tron GT, or the Lucid, or even the EQS for that matter?

 

[Zcd1]

Stopped in to see a Taycan the other day - this one was a base model, though optioned up to $120K even though it didn't have the bigger battery. No test drives, though - nothing to drive.
Quick impressions:

• Great looking car - this one was a pale gray with a black interior and Mission E wheels - looked fantastic. Build quality seemed typically Porsche, meaning excellent.
• Interior is nicely built, though not what I'd call roomy.
• I found the UI pretty confusing, but I'm sure that would get better with time.
• Multiple touch-screens make no sense to me though, whether in a Porsche or an Audi or a BMW.
• Trunk and frunk small-ish - good for 2 people's stuff - not really for 4 though.
• They had a Taycan Cross Turismo ready for delivery, so though I couldn't sit in it, I saw the back seat and cargo area - more practical for sure. Looks good, too, though to my eye at least, not as good as the normal Taycan.
• The only real surprises were the awkward (to me) ingress and egress and the extremely limited visibility through the rear window.

Tesla showroom was on my way home so I stopped by to see what they might have that I could look at. To my surprise, they had one in my exact specification and color scheme sitting ready for delivery (LR, blue exterior, cream interior, 21" wheels).

• It also looked really good, with the wider fender flares and much wider wheels and tires improving the car's stance immeasurably vs. the pre-refresh version.
• Build quality definitely not at the level of the Porsche, though still very good.
• Trunk is huge, frunk decent though smaller than the pre-refresh version.
• Much easier to get in and out of than the Taycan - bigger door openings, higher seating position, more space inside, etc....

Power and practicality advantage go to Tesla, looks and I'm sure handling dynamics advantage to Porsche.

Both really nice cars with plenty to recommend them. Anyone who has the opportunity to choose between them is "winning" in my book.

 

[Vzxyz]

I currently have a 2018 Model S 100D and a 2022 Taycan 4S in my garage. While these cars are not comparable to the original post (plaid vs Taycan turbo), I thought I'd share my 2c. Please bear in mind that both these cars are being used to drive mostly around the city. We use our minivan for longer trips (which have been hard to come by during COVID)

Tesla:
-Rapid off the mark (that addictive instant EV torque).
-Amazing sound system (with limitations of bluetooth). Have to use Spotify or tidal for HD streaming
-Have FUSC but rarely use it since we usually take the minivan for road trips.
-Still feels like a one trick pony. Cornering is pathetic for a car of this price. I've heard the Plaid has made significant improvements with handling.
-Suspension is horrible (again have heard that this has been upgraded with raven and plaid).
-Service absolutely sucks (nothing new here).
-Rear passenger ventilation is not great. Kids always feel hot for 10-15 min even with the fans on at 11.
-Build quality (suspension changed 3 times, headlights replaced 4 times) issues remain even with plaid (based on forum posts).
-No one talks about nighttime visibility. The headlights are very poor compared to any modern car made in the last 5-6 years. Even the plaid has the same crappy headlights. The model 3 and Y have amazing lights.
-V 11 UI is a work in progress. I'm sure it will get better with time.

Taycan:
-Massage seats!! finally.
-Amazing driving experience. Suspension is buttery smooth.
-Miss the one pedal driving but I somehow prefer the conventional approach these days (especially on drives after breakfast or lunch - Tesla gives me nausea on regular setting with regen ON).
-Carplay is good. I get better streaming options. Stock Bose is supposed to be good but I splurged on the burmester.
-Very poor rear visibility
-No dashcam
-Limited storage space. The cross trurismo has somewhat more trunk space (still less than Tesla).
-Overall better soundproofing
-360 parking cam.
-HUD and better nighttime time driving experience (headlights are great)

Both cars have unique characteristics and I don't think you can compare them as such. They usually get compared due to the price range but cater to different populations. I am still deciding on keeping the Tesla vs selling it but just feel blessed to live in a time where we have so many choices