If there was a 100 mile range upgrade what would you be willing to pay?

[totoro722]

After dropping $100k on a new car, would I pay an extra 5K to up the range by almost 30%? You bet!

 

[Gizmo35]

Would definetly consider paying for more range. Id buy the 100 miles of range for $7000 before spending it on FSD.

 

[PNWLeccy]

For road trips, my LR RWD hasn’t caused any range anxiety or caused me to stop much more than.i already would.

However, when traveling to national parks, it does bother me that I have to think much more about planning my exploration. I think every national park should have at least one SC/destination charger because it promotes emission free vehicles (which seems like a perfect match For nat’l Parks ) and allows me to backpack/camp without fear of running out of juice in the middle of a park w/ no service.

Long story short, I think more range would be great but ultimately more charging capability in remote locations would probably address my desire more. I hope that the planned Rivian “adventure network” causes Tesla to pay more attention to these areas more.

 

[one2many]

Well as I see it what you all want is to replace the "AAA" batteries
with "AA" in your TV remote. Yes it can be done with some work but
it not going to look good. You may not like "AAA"as much as "AA" but
that is life. Be happy we drive the best cars in the world and in a few
years it will get better but for a cost. OK now back to my summer project
of "AA" batteries.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I have a RWD LR Model 3 and I often make trips that are more than 300 miles. Traveling at 80 to 85 mph (Texas roads with 75 mph speed limits) and with the AC on means that of course I must stop at a SC. Stopping to charge isn't a big deal because I would stop to rest anyway but it made me think about things. Our Prius can make the same trips without any stops to refuel and I can rest anywhere along the route I want and for a shorter duration than it takes to recharge. Wouldn't it be nice then if my Tesla didn't require refueling in a 300 mile trip just like my Prius? Yes I could slow down or hyper-mile but that's not the point.

Anyway this made me wonder how much it would it be worth to me to get some sort of range upgrade? What would I be willing to pay if in the future there was some sort of battery swap upgrade or whatever (not that I believe such an upgrade will ever be available)? Would a 100 mile range increase be worth $2K, $5K, $7K (about the same price of FSD), or even $10K?

I think if that upgrade was available to me today I'd be willing to pay up to $7K, how about you?

RW miles or "miles"?

I could see spending 10-15% of my car's book value to upgrade to a fresh new much higher density pack with a new warranty.

 

[Austindude]

For road trips, my LR RWD hasn’t caused any range anxiety or caused me to stop much more than.i already would.

However, when traveling to national parks, it does bother me that I have to think much more about planning my exploration. I think every national park should have at least one SC/destination charger because it promotes emission free vehicles (which seems like a perfect match For nat’l Parks ) and allows me to backpack/camp without fear of running out of juice in the middle of a park w/ no service.

Long story short, I think more range would be great but ultimately more charging capability in remote locations would probably address my desire more. I hope that the planned Rivian “adventure network” causes Tesla to pay more attention to these areas more.

Agree, more SC stations will is a good thing but from my vantage point additional range also has non zero dollar value. You say more range would be great, but you didn't say how much would you pay for that additional range?

 

[PNWLeccy]

Agree, more SC stations will is a good thing but from my vantage point additional range also has non zero dollar value. You say more range would be great, but you didn't say how much would you pay for that additional range?

While i agree more range has a non zero dollar value...I just don't want to pay for it myself I'd rather have additional chargers to handle the couple of times a year my range limitations would actually impact me and not have to pay for range i wouldnt use 95% of the year.

When I purchased there was a $9k difference between SR+ and LR AWD and I was not willing to pay that much more for additional range. I instead found a used LR RWD for the cost I would've paid for SR+ and was happy with that so... i'm not sure what I'd be willing to pay

 

[SammichLover]

When I purchased there was a $9k difference between SR+ and LR AWD and I was not willing to pay that much more for additional range. I instead found a used LR RWD for the cost I would've paid for SR+ and was happy with that so... i'm not sure what I'd be willing to pay

You still paid near that amount for the difference. Would have been similarly cheaper yet if you'd bought a used SR instead.

 

[ElectricIAC]

You still paid near that amount for the difference. Would have been similarly cheaper yet if you'd bought a used SR instead.

Don't kid yourself. For the longest time SR/+ prices refused to go below a certain cliff making a new car still the best deal. The recent price drop seems to be bringing back this dynamic.

 

[run-the-joules]

That would theoretically put me at that magic "real world 300 miles of range even in the cold" mark, which would be pretty great. That said, I think in a practical sense I'd rather have faster charging and more stalls per station, because my frustrations aren't so much the frequency of my stops on a road trip, but how long those stops take.

That said, there's something to be said for the frustration of having to stop and charge when you're at like 60% battery, because it seems like a lot of the legacy supercharging network was planned for the older Model S variants with the smaller batteries and the spacing can be REALLY weird sometimes when you're in the newer/better cars.

 

[PNWLeccy]

You still paid near that amount for the difference. Would have been similarly cheaper yet if you'd bought a used SR instead.

Like @ElectricIAC said, there were no used SR+/SR that were any cheaper than buying new w/ incentives because of the weird way that Tesla's used market works. I actually purchased a LR RWD during the fire sale/db glitch that caused a bunch of used car's to be priced way lower than market and picked up a LR RWD for $35.9k. Since I wasn't willing to pay more than SR+ price, I was willing to wait for used prices to fall before snatching my car.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Not for me. I did 16,000 miles last year and only twice had to stop anywhere to charge. So no - the time:money value isn't there for me.

But that's my use case... NJ is a pretty compact state!

Yup that is me as well. Frankly, it isn't a good idea (health wise) to be sitting driving for hours at a time without stopping. I look forward to stopping every couple hours to stretch and rest, even if it does make my trip a bit longer. But, I do realize I was young at one time and like my son that would probably like to drive for 3 straight days without stopping , there are such folks that would pay for longer range.

 

[SammichLover]

Don't kid yourself. For the longest time SR/+ prices refused to go below a certain cliff making a new car still the best deal. The recent price drop seems to be bringing back this dynamic.

Like @ElectricIAC said, there were no used SR+/SR that were any cheaper than buying new w/ incentives because of the weird way that Tesla's used market works. I actually purchased a LR RWD during the fire sale/db glitch that caused a bunch of used car's to be priced way lower than market and picked up a LR RWD for $35.9k. Since I wasn't willing to pay more than SR+ price, I was willing to wait for used prices to fall before snatching my car.

There is some delay because of the used Tesla pipeline (the LR was like that for a long time, too) but by waiting on the used SR+ market to develop string brings the price offset in line and you can have that discount.

 

[jerry33]

The main reasons for additional miles are 1) The non-Tesla driving public wants 500 miles or more 2) The larger the battery the faster the rate of charging 3) It adds to the car's useful life (Most people are unlikely to pay for a new battery after 200K-300K miles).

 

[dmurphy]

The main reasons for additional miles are 1) The non-Tesla driving public wants 500 miles or more

They don't, actually.
What they /want/ is to revel in the "safety" of their exploding-vapors engine which they sort-of understand vs. a battery car which is new, and different, and scary.

I've never owned a gas car with 500 miles of range in my life, and never once thought about it.
I've never once bought a new car and asked "How many miles till empty?"
I've never once thought to myself "Forget it, I'm not even looking at that CT6, its gas tank is too small!"

The only reason to throw 500 miles out there is as a bogeyman.

I've had *exactly* this conversation... it's infuriatingly stupid.

Statement: "I can't drive a battery car, it only goes 310 miles on a charge!"
Question: "When was the last time you went 310 miles without stopping?"
Statement: "Well, I drove to Tennessee 10 years ago for a wedding ....."
Question: "So you won't buy a car because you might have to make an extra stop once every 10 years?"

 

[SammichLover]

1) The non-Tesla driving public wants 500 miles or more

Sure, lots assume they do. Or often is the case they state they do when it is actually just a rationalization, or a line that's been sold to them, for not buying a BEV. However building a product that isn't actually appropriate for the task, for the ultimate goal, is epically bad-lazy marketing and will burn you in the end. A classic misunderstanding of "The customer is always right".

3) It adds to the car's useful life.

At a substantial extra build cost up front. With diminishing returns because....

(Most people are unlikely to pay for a new battery after 200K-300K miles).

Those are the people that are unlikely to see the "extends functioning life of original battery" benefit anyway.

It isn't that those aren't valid arguments in general. They really represent the core of why LR over SR is a better value longterm in spite of the extra $100/mile of range premium. The issue is there is a diminishing return as you rise through this. For example on the matter of DC charging speeds I find after Tesla's improvement that the charging speed is slightly faster than my own pace at stops even when I'm driving with high priority for keeping my overall travel time down. The car now waits on me, rather than the other way around. So battery size past LR doesn't score much there.

 

[PNWLeccy]

They don't, actually.
What they /want/ is to revel in the "safety" of their exploding-vapors engine which they sort-of understand vs. a battery car which is new, and different, and scary.

I've never owned a gas car with 500 miles of range in my life, and never once thought about it.
I've never once bought a new car and asked "How many miles till empty?"
I've never once thought to myself "Forget it, I'm not even looking at that CT6, its gas tank is too small!"

The only reason to throw 500 miles out there is as a bogeyman.

I've had *exactly* this conversation... it's infuriatingly stupid.

Statement: "I can't drive a battery car, it only goes 310 miles on a charge!"
Question: "When was the last time you went 310 miles without stopping?"
Statement: "Well, I drove to Tennessee 10 years ago for a wedding ....."
Question: "So you won't buy a car because you might have to make an extra stop once every 10 years?"

Totally agree. This is why I argue that there needs to be more charging availability rather than more range. 300+ miles is in the range of lots of ICE vehicles but what causes the range anxiety is that EV owners have to plan their trips around the availability of chargers. When I drive an ICE i know that pretty much wherever I am, that there will be a gas station within ~50 miles. I looked at all available EV's when purchasing and while I think Tesla is a much better vehicle, I ultimately decided for a 1 car household, SC was necessary to make owning an EV viable for my lifestyle.

You can always make the argument that you can plug into 110v almost anywhere but that 1) is not that practical because of how slow the charge is 2) not as relevant in my National Park example I gave earlier where that option may not be available either

 

[ElectricIAC]

They don't, actually.
What they /want/ is to revel in the "safety" of their exploding-vapors engine which they sort-of understand vs. a battery car which is new, and different, and scary.

I've never owned a gas car with 500 miles of range in my life, and never once thought about it.
I've never once bought a new car and asked "How many miles till empty?"
I've never once thought to myself "Forget it, I'm not even looking at that CT6, its gas tank is too small!"

The only reason to throw 500 miles out there is as a bogeyman.

I've had *exactly* this conversation... it's infuriatingly stupid.

Statement: "I can't drive a battery car, it only goes 310 miles on a charge!"
Question: "When was the last time you went 310 miles without stopping?"
Statement: "Well, I drove to Tennessee 10 years ago for a wedding ....."
Question: "So you won't buy a car because you might have to make an extra stop once every 10 years?"

As someone who has a demo fossil car with 500+mi range (and a crude version of autopilot), I can attest it's overrated. Your body is tired way before the car is.

 

[SammichLover]

As someone who has a demo fossil car with 500+mi range (and a crude version of autopilot), I can attest it's overrated. Your body is tired way before the car is.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the aversion isn't even trips (although yes, plenty of imagining of unrealistic or extremely rare hypotheticals does happen). It is more wrapped up in having to refill the vehicle through the week of commuting and running errands. Gas Station Thinking is what I refer to it as. "My car can drive X miles before refueling and I have this much hassle of driving out of my way to the gas station as it is. Go to the gas station more often and spend <insert FUD here> more time there? No way!"

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

I'm pretty sure a lot of the aversion isn't even trips (although yes, plenty of imagining of unrealistic or extremely rare hypotheticals does happen). It is more wrapped up in having to refill the vehicle through the week of commuting and running errands. Gas Station Thinking is what I refer to it as. "My car can drive X miles before refueling and I have this much hassle of driving out of my way to the gas station as it is. Go to the gas station more often and spend <insert FUD here> more time there? No way!"

Yes this. I’ve called it the gas paradigm vs the EV paradigm, but tomato / tomato. It is the old way of thinking (fill up, drive until almost empty, rinse and repeat) that is so engrained in everyone’s minds it is challenging for them to believe there might be another way. It’s neat when I explain this to people and sometimes I see a look come across their face that makes me realize the light bulb just came on. “Wait, so I DON’T have to visit the gas station each week.”