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Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.
When the ACTUAL cybertruck pricing is released…,
- Thread starter SolarWizard
- Start date
Glass roofs aren't for fun. Because glass roofs are so thin they allow EV manufacturers to lower the roof line to improve aerodynamics while simultaneously maintaining head room, which is why they are ubiquitous on EVs.
The Rivian was tested at very close to 1m/ kWh when towing 7K#s. So assuming similar efficiency you'd need a 300 kWh Battery back to go 300 miles. But you always need some extra for safety so now you really need a 400 kWh battery back.
Current cost per kWh is estimated to be $137 so that's $55K in battery pack alone, before the chassis at all.
Rivian R1T Range When Towing: The Truth
How far can an R1T go on a single charge when pulling 7,000 lbs? All-Electric Family decided to find out.
insideevs.com
Electric Car Battery Replacement Costs
When it comes to electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids, many shoppers wonder how long it will be until they have to replace their battery. Then what will it cost to replace that battery?
www.recurrentauto.com
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you need to regularly tow things long distances don't buy an EV truck for gosh sakes.
Would love to strip that cost out and say that's my VTH battery bank(assuming) and take a tax credit.
What's to decide? If you have a reservation, you're going to take it when it becomes available. It will immediately be worth more than what you pay. Your only decision is if you flip or keep.
The only people I can envision not taking it, are those who did not lock in FSD and are wealthy enough that a couple grand in profit is not worth the trouble of reselling.
Possibly? Hard to predict what sales/demand/value will be in 2-3+ years when/if they start to get delivered. The last ~3 years is the first time very many people have been making money off selling a slightly used car.
Of course we can't be certain, but I don't think it's hard to predict. If a low FSD price is locked in, that's immediate value. Prior to inflation, the resale value on a brand new Tesla was generally at least high enough for a break-even when considering taxes and fees. So, even if inflation abates, I think the CT will still be worth while for an immediate resale. There could also be more lucrative options that don't involve selling it.
The problem with the Lightning is how massive of a drop in range while towing. A guy in the Lightning forum got 90 miles on a full charge while towing his boat. Fast Lane Teuck reported 80 miles with a 6,000 lb trailer.
Aerodynamics of the trailer are a huge factor, but that's just not good enough. The Rivian is getting better towing results, so I hope Tesla learns from that.
You can’t overcome physics. The amount of drag (additional forces) that need to be overcome pulling a trailer at a given speed is the same regardless of what is pulling it, f150 lightning, R1T, CT, ICE truck,…. The difference is that with EVs being extremely efficient (for comparison my LX570 uses 2.8 kWh/mi for its “rated”) you really notice the extra force and gas tanks have huge energy capacity, ~850 kWh in a gas truck, ~1200 kWh in a diesel.
Just basic rough math pulling my camper (frontal profile 8’x8’, cd 0.65, -40% (for the truck profile), with 0.015 rolling resistance) on a flat surface @55 mph with still air requires an additional 1-1.2 kw of force. At @70 mph more like 1.5-1.8 kw.
Same math with the boat I had (26’ Duckworth) looking at additional ~0.9-1kw @55 mph.
So with the camper if baseline “rated” is ~400 Wh/mi then looking at 1.5 kw/mi @55 mph and >2 kw/mi @70 mph. Even with a 200 kw battery only going to go ~100-130 miles max.
We don’t need more efficient EV trucks we need more energy dense batteries.
In simple terms, EV's are designed very efficient, this is how they obtain their range. Which is how they are able to have 250-300 miles range on the energy equivalent of just a few gallons of gasoline. I read a report that said that just turning on the AC on a MY hurt the economy by 22%. In an ICE vehicle, you'd be unlikely to even calculate the difference running the AC. Current battery technology just doesn't have the energy density needed to tow trailers effectively.
Doesn't matter how efficient it is. This is being sold as a truck. As a truck, it needs to do truck things. If it can't, then it is an SUV with a bigger than average trunk. That is OK, but lets not pretend that an EV that can't perform Truck things is a Truck.
250 miles towing or hauling 50% of max capacity is a min range. If it can't do that, then it is not a truck. If you only use your vehicle to tow 50 miles that is fine too but you can get by with an SUV now. I can not and am looking to buy the first EV truck that really can do truck things. I'm hoping it will be the Cyber truck. If not I may have to wait on the RAM. They are promising more range in their vehicle and may beat the cyber to market.
250 miles towing or hauling 50% of max capacity is a min range. If it can't do that, then it is not a truck. If you only use your vehicle to tow 50 miles that is fine too but you can get by with an SUV now. I can not and am looking to buy the first EV truck that really can do truck things. I'm hoping it will be the Cyber truck. If not I may have to wait on the RAM. They are promising more range in their vehicle and may beat the cyber to market.
lmao…… so old trucks aren’t trucks because they can’t go 250 miles towing without a fill up?
rhumbliner
Member
Precisely! The only thing that prevents trucks like Rivian from doing “truck things” like towing is lack of a robust charging network. If/When Tesla opens up their network to non-Teslas then eTrucks will be viable trucks for towing.
I’m near Portland OR and see the same Lightnings on Craig’s List for a long time trying to squeeze that big payday out. You forget you have to find both someone willing to pay $20 or $30k over list price and able to do it. Oh yea most buyers would probably still have to get a loan. Good luck finding a bank or credit union that will loan you $ on a deal like that. The local Vancouver WA ford dealer has dropped their market adj price to $125k after finding no takers. It’s a loaded Platinum MSRP $92k. They started at $152k two months ago.
I spoke to a couple of the CL Lightning sellers and found they were 1st time EV buyers and cheaper out on the battery (going with standard range). 230 miles max but probably 180 daily charge. These were both XLT’s and they wanted $125k! Way too much money for too little range and features. Two dealers with Lariats have dropped by $10k to $115k
I’m mature enough to wait. I need to see what the final CT has before I can decide.
Mankind still does not know how to make these, however, energy density is actually ok now but:
- The truck just needs more of today's current batteries but: The truck can't waste too much weight on structural mass so it has capacity for a lot of battery mass. It must get the necessary strength through means other than a heavy I-beam frame like traditional trucks. Perhaps an efficient exo-skeleton, built more like a truss bridge than a simple beam bridge might enable it to carry a lot of today's low-specific energy (gravimetric energy density - Wh/kg) batteries while still preserving the expected hauling/towing utility? The problem is that such a design would look kind of funny. Maybe one could brand this strange-looking design a "CyberTruck" and capitalize on its uniqueness instead of having to apologize for it. I wonder if anyone has thought of this? If so, I'd invest it them immediately. /s
- Why do you think Tesla offers a '500 mile' CT? Its so you can get ~250 miles towing and hauling. Tesla gets it, Ford has yet to offer an EV capable of hauling or towing without a lot of compromises. A ~200 - 300 mile (unloaded) truck is fine for the suburban warrior or tradesman with a few Home Depot runs per month or short boat-hauls to a nearby lake.
- Why do you think Tesla is not producing the CT now? Its because they have a massive backlog of Model 3's and Y's and they are limited by how many batteries they can make. Each CT takes as many batteries as 2 or 3 Model 3's Y's. Despite how badly we want a CT, only a fool would sell CTs when they can sell 2X to 3X as many Model 3's or Y's and make money that can be plowed back into building more factories to build more batteries so they will eventually be able to keep up with demand. So far, Tesla has done a few foolish things but nothing so epically foolish as this.
Even if tesla can get the CT to 500 miles with a 200kw battery (400 Wh/mi rated) would only get ~130-150 miles range on 100% to 0% goin 60mph pulling a 5-7k lb camper. Heck even at model 3 efficiency (250 Wh/mi, which will probably never happen current and near future with something as large as the CT) could only get ~160-175 miles.
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