So much for Tesla's no resale clause - 11 Cybertrucks currently on Ebay

[kizamybute']

Read where one Tesla Cybertruck owner had his orders canceled and banned from purchasing any future Tesla's because he listed, not sold, just listed, his Cybertruck for sale.

Cars & Bids (horrible auction site), Doug DeMuro released a video of why he hasn't reviewed one yet, supposedly because owners were too afraid of what Tesla might do to them.

Apparently, one sold for $200,000 to Ford, so they could reverse engineer it.

There are currently 11 owners who have listed their Cybertrucks for sale, just on Ebay alone. All but one are priced over $200,000. A year and a half ago, they likely would have gotten that. We're in a different world today.

There's one listed that shows 7 bids up to $160,100, yet nobody has jumped at the Buy It Now Price of $170,000. Makes me think, the bids must be phony bids just to make it look like people are interested. Common tactic on ebay listings. If someone really wanted it and bid $160,000 for it, they'd have hit the buy it now for $170,000 to ensure they got it.

I figured maybe the first 10 might go out at ridiculous prices. But, from the looks of it, maybe you could still find a few buyers in the $150,000 range. Tesla bragged about over 1,000,000 deposits. But, as with the guy that got banned, many were people who placed multiple deposits.

Per ebay, looks like three have sold. the last one already down to $160,000.

Another 900,000 or so probably just did so since it was only $100 to do so and just in case. Since the truck didn't meat the lofty promises Tesla announced, a good chunk of people have probably aborted. Add that into the fact that the economy isn't great and demand for EV's has plateaued, all those that bought these just to flip them are likely in for a rude awakening. For the next six months, they likely can come out ahead still. But, then there will be enough available.

Hummers were selling for over $200,000 in the peak of the market. Now they struggle to bring sticker price, despite the fact that there are so few of them.

Nowadays, you can find Rivian's for in the $60,000 range. F-150 Lightnings for less than $50,000. And even at those prices, they are struggling to sell them.

Chevy is soon to release the $100,000+ Silverado. Imagine they'll struggle with sales on that one too.

Dodge (Ram) appears to have the best thing going with the PHEV Ramcharger. Right now, most are just lifestyle trucks. For those needing a truck to do real truck things, full EV's just aren't there yet. The Ramcharger is a great alternative. 150 miles in EV only range, plus a gas "generator" for long distance trips or towing needs. Basically, for 95%, 150 miles a day is way more than enough to be EV only. The convenience of the gas engine and not having to deal with public chargers on the longer trips or towing trips, I think, makes it a really attractive offering to those who are hesitant to switch from ICE to EV due to range anxiety and the unappealing public charging network. It truly does offer the best of both worlds.

My Chevy Volt was AMAZING and is what convinced me to go full EV. Ramcharger is the first truck capable of getting the 95% not willing to switch over to at least now consider it.

 

[fhteagle]

100% agree about the Volt. Really sad that in the past decade there has only been 2 other proper EREVs released in the US really. Especially in the truck space, the OEMs really messed up not bringing those to market ten years ago.

As to Tesla's restrictions on resale clause, I have the same opinion of it now that I had the first time I saw the verbiage: Tesla put themselves in a no win condition by including it as written. If they go after even one reseller, they lose face. If they delay or deny even one buyback, they lose face. If they don't go after anyone, they lose face. Forcing someone to accept something so poorly written and horribly ill defined to get a truck is an insult to the Tesla customer. The sad part is the number of people who either don't read, don't understand what they're reading, or are so starry eyed for a hunk of metal that they'll sign anything.

Cancelling future reservations would have been a completely reasonable remedy for Tesla to ask for, if someone sells their first one. A near confession of judgement for the entire resale price type of clause, definitely is not.

It's one of about 5 showstopper reasons why I haven't converted my CT FS invite into an order, and probably won't.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Anything above $60k will be a struggle. Even $40 and $50K might be too much.

People will say well the "Raptor and TRX"......yeah, most of those are bought used.

No manufacturer has bought Cybertruck to "reverse engineer" it. What exactly are they going to reverse engineer? It's not like Tesla has done anything spectacular. Im sure the major manufacturers could hold a contest to draw the next EV Truck and that would be good enough to match the Cybertruck.

Unlike the Model 3 and Y, the Cybertruck brings no value to the Truck Market. EV Trucks have been out for years and can now be found second hand.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I hear what you are saying about no need to reverse engineer, but it is common practice and frankly a very small part of their R&D budget and the asset can be sold off when done.

Surely Ford and others want to see if Tesla did anything cutting edge in regard to the 4-wheel steering, the new XXX-volt electrical system. Tesla is also a master at building really incredibly basic automobiles, that somehow don't look super cheap. All the manufacturers need to examine this to try and emulate some of this to improve their cost structure.

I have no doubt that Ford engineers will also be pointing, shaking their heads and laughing a lot at some of the design features of the CT, but then they ignored the 'Y' and look at what happened.

 

[T3SLAROD]

I hear what you are saying about no need to reverse engineer, but it is common practice and frankly a very small part of their R&D budget and the asset can be sold off when done.

Surely Ford and others want to see if Tesla did anything cutting edge in regard to the 4-wheel steering, the new XXX-volt electrical system. Tesla is also a master at building really incredibly basic automobiles, that somehow don't look super cheap. All the manufacturers need to examine this to try and emulate some of this to improve their cost structure.

I have no doubt that Ford engineers will also be pointing, shaking their heads and laughing a lot at some of the design features of the CT, but then they ignored the 'Y' and look at what happened.

They ignored the Y? They were working on the Mach-E.

Ford is already into development of the 2nd gen Ford Lightning, I doubt they want to make it a Unibody. Farley speaks with Musk on a regular basis, I’m sure there is no need for Ford to pay over on a Cybertruck when Musk can just give them one.

 

[stopcrazypp]

They ignored the Y? They were working on the Mach-E.

Ford is already into development of the 2nd gen Ford Lightning, I doubt they want to make it a Unibody. Farley speaks with Musk on a regular basis, I’m sure there is no need for Ford to pay over on a Cybertruck when Musk can just give them one.

Why would Musk just give them one and why would Farley even request that? If you look at the Farley interview about the charging adapter, even though they are providing it for free to customers, it's certainly not free for Ford to buy it from Tesla. You can buy a lot of adapters for the price of one Cybertruck.

As for whether naysayers say there is nothing to learn: even for fairly mundane cars, competitors still buy cars to see what the competition is doing and to keep up to date. On that note, there are plenty new things in the Cybertruck to learn about, the major ones being 48V LV system with no 12V battery, steer by wire, the paintless steel exterior panels. Even if they come to the conclusion they won't do the same thing, it's still useful info.

 

[strider]

As for whether naysayers say there is nothing to learn: even for fairly mundane cars, competitors still buy cars to see what the competition is doing and to keep up to date. On that note, there are plenty new things in the Cybertruck to learn about, the major ones being 48V LV system with no 12V battery, steer by wire, the paintless steel exterior panels. Even if they come to the conclusion they won't do the same thing, it's still useful info.

But there's no reason to pay $200k to get one "right now". 4 wheel steering is not new. GM has had it for decades on trucks. Porsche as well. Tesla has some of the worst suspension in the business (ride quality and robustness) so copying anything they've done would be a step backwards. Stainless steel body panels? -<yawn>- Steer by wire and 48V system are novel and something where Tesla could actually have done something innovative. But there's no way Ford would implement either of those systems on the v2 Lightning so there's no rush.

Once Tesla figures out the 4680 problem these early edition CTs will crash in value. Granted that may take 2, 3, 4 years but the facts are that the energy density of the current 4680 cell is horrible and the truck is currently crippled by range.

 

[T3SLAROD]

But there's no reason to pay $200k to get one "right now". 4 wheel steering is not new. GM has had it for decades on trucks. Porsche as well. Tesla has some of the worst suspension in the business (ride quality and robustness) so copying anything they've done would be a step backwards. Stainless steel body panels? -<yawn>- Steer by wire and 48V system are novel and something where Tesla could actually have done something innovative. But there's no way Ford would implement either of those systems on the v2 Lightning so there's no rush.

Once Tesla figures out the 4680 problem these early edition CTs will crash in value. Granted that may take 2, 3, 4 years but the facts are that the energy density of the current 4680 cell is horrible and the truck is currently crippled by range.

Exactly. These people are acting like Ford doesn’t build trucks or hasn’t looked into stainless steel in the past or any of the other “innovative” features in the Cybertruck

Does it work? Rear-wheel steering

CAR explains what rear-wheel steering systems are, and how they work

www.carmagazine.co.uk

I’m sure ford has done nothing on the 2nd gen Lightning and was waiting to pay $200k on a Cybertruck to tear it down and learn

 

[stopcrazypp]

But there's no reason to pay $200k to get one "right now".

Where did I say that they would pay $200k? I'm just saying they may buy one if they are interested, and it's unrealistic to expect Elon to give them one for free.

4 wheel steering is not new. GM has had it for decades on trucks. Porsche as well.

I'm not talking about 4 wheel steering, I'm talking about full steer by wire with no mechanical backup. The Cybertruck is the first production vehicle to have this (Lexus has it in a concept prototype, but they didn't release it for sale).

Tesla has some of the worst suspension in the business (ride quality and robustness) so copying anything they've done would be a step backwards. Stainless steel body panels? -<yawn>- Steer by wire and 48V system are novel and something where Tesla could actually have done something innovative.

So you acknowledge there ARE things they can learn.

But there's no way Ford would implement either of those systems on the v2 Lightning so there's no rush.

Where did I say there's a rush, I just said they might buy one, I didn't say they would rush nor pay price gougers to do so. They could just put in an early order as many people have done.

Once Tesla figures out the 4680 problem these early edition CTs will crash in value. Granted that may take 2, 3, 4 years but the facts are that the energy density of the current 4680 cell is horrible and the truck is currently crippled by range.

 

[kizamybute']

Anything above $60k will be a struggle. Even $40 and $50K might be too much.

People will say well the "Raptor and TRX"......yeah, most of those are bought used.

No manufacturer has bought Cybertruck to "reverse engineer" it. What exactly are they going to reverse engineer? It's not like Tesla has done anything spectacular. Im sure the major manufacturers could hold a contest to draw the next EV Truck and that would be good enough to match the Cybertruck.

Unlike the Model 3 and Y, the Cybertruck brings no value to the Truck Market. EV Trucks have been out for years and can now be found second hand.

Ford bought the first one for $200,000+. It's quite common for manufacturers to pay premium prices to get one of the first one's available.

Anything above $60k will be a struggle. Even $40 and $50K might be too much.

People will say well the "Raptor and TRX"......yeah, most of those are bought used.

No manufacturer has bought Cybertruck to "reverse engineer" it. What exactly are they going to reverse engineer? It's not like Tesla has done anything spectacular. Im sure the major manufacturers could hold a contest to draw the next EV Truck and that would be good enough to match the Cybertruck.

Unlike the Model 3 and Y, the Cybertruck brings no value to the Truck Market. EV Trucks have been out for years and can now be found second hand.

It's EXTREMELY COMMON for competing manufacturers to buy new models from other manufacturers. Happens all day. Ford admitted to being one of the first to buy the Cybertruck. Not sure why there's an argument. Just know that it's very common. Several bought the Model 3 when they first came out. I was fortunate to have 6 reservations, among multiple names and sold four of them for over $70,000. Two were shipped out of the country and the other two went to large corporations, likely indirectly associated with a manufacturer. I still had access to the app for one of them for a little while and it ended up at one of Mercedes' plants in the US. Ownership in the app was never changed. Showed all doors, hood and trunk open for a couple of days, then the car mysteriously no longer communicated with the app (likely torn down).

All manufacturers want a chance to comb through what others are doing, especially those that are doing it successfully. nobody has done EV's more successfully than Tesla, so it's only natural that they're going to want to peek under the hood (and everything else). Many times that is to reverse engineer it. In this case, could just be to see what they did and if there's anything they weren't aware of.

 

[TessP100D]

But there's no reason to pay $200k to get one "right now". 4 wheel steering is not new. GM has had it for decades on trucks. Porsche as well. Tesla has some of the worst suspension in the business (ride quality and robustness) so copying anything they've done would be a step backwards. Stainless steel body panels? -<yawn>- Steer by wire and 48V system are novel and something where Tesla could actually have done something innovative. But there's no way Ford would implement either of those systems on the v2 Lightning so there's no rush.

Once Tesla figures out the 4680 problem these early edition CTs will crash in value. Granted that may take 2, 3, 4 years but the facts are that the energy density of the current 4680 cell is horrible and the truck is currently crippled by range.

Well said.

 

[blue y]

So much for Tesla's no resale clause - 11 Cybertrucks currently on Ebay​

Good.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

The Cars and Bids auction was eye-opening today at only $158K. If you plan to flip your CT for a profit, you better hurry! The resale market price has already dropped around $100K in the past couple of weeks from the one that sold for $250K. Won't be long before the prices are below MSRP for used ones, like what happened with the Hummer EV, but I think CT prices will drop to that point faster than the year it took for the Hummer to drop below MSRP.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The Cars and Bids auction was eye-opening today at only $158K. If you plan to flip your CT for a profit, you better hurry! The resale market price has already dropped around $100K in the past couple of weeks from the one that sold for $250K. Won't be long before the prices are below MSRP for used ones, like what happened with the Hummer EV, but I think CT prices will drop to that point faster than the year it took for the Hummer to drop below MSRP.

I've actually seen two already on the roads in the wild. I think the actual production is a lot faster than anticipated (the naysayers pretty much said it would be a small trickle).

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I've actually seen two already on the roads in the wild. I think the actual production is a lot faster than anticipated (the naysayers pretty much said it would be a small trickle).

Yes. There’s a YouTuber that just did a drone flyover of the factory showing almost 400 CT’s waiting to be shipped.

The production volume is much much higher than the Hummer was at the beginning.

 

[kizamybute']

The Cars and Bids auction was eye-opening today at only $158K. If you plan to flip your CT for a profit, you better hurry! The resale market price has already dropped around $100K in the past couple of weeks from the one that sold for $250K. Won't be long before the prices are below MSRP for used ones, like what happened with the Hummer EV, but I think CT prices will drop to that point faster than the year it took for the Hummer to drop below MSRP.

Just like with the Hummer, Rivian and to some degree, the Lightning, there were a few early ones that sold at astronomical prices. Most of those however, went to companies that just wanted to get their hands on one for business purposes, thus the price paid was insignificant to them. There are only so many of those buyers available. All the ones (at least nearly all) we see selling at $50,000 or $100,000 over MSRP are not being sold to people that plan to keep them for personal use. Hummers commanded over $200,000 for a while. Rivian trucks were in the $130,000+ range. A couple of early Lightnings brought just over $100,000, but it being what it was, there wasn't the same kind of interest in it. Now, all of them can be had for less than MSRP on the used market.

Tesla may have taken over 2,000,000 deposits, but only a fraction of those will turn into actual orders. With Tesla now a fairly major manufacturer that can produce over 1,000,000 cars per year, they're going to catch up on backorders pretty quickly and before long, they'll be offering deals just to get them sold.

The truck is a love it or hate it vehicle. Won't appeal to 60% of the EV willing buyers, so their buyer pool is notably less than it is for the F-150 and Rivian. For me personally, I placed an order on it, figuring it would grow on me. The opposite has happened. The more I see it, the less I like it. Even the wrapped ones aren't appealing to me. Possibly an all black one since black helps to hide a lot of what's not attractive about the truck. The brighter colored wraps almost look worse than the stainless steel does.

Add that to the fact that Tesla really under-delivered with the Cybertruck. Many times, they under-promised and over-delivered in the past. This one was the opposite. It's gotten bad reviews for its off-road capability. Range is horrible. Towing capacity is less than promised. Etc, etc, etc.

There were probably some "truck" buyers that were waiting to see it that might have considered switching from ICE trucks because it's a Tesla, but most of those have decided against it.

Despite complaints for years now about everything having to be controlled from the screen, rather than a few tastefully integrated buttons, Tesla keeps taking it to a bigger extreme with minimalism. Tesla fans have accepted it. Most others have not. They went way too far for my tastes by removing the driver's screen, now removing blinker and shifter stalks. And some genius decided to make the tonneau cover, cover the back window!! All deal breakers for me and I'm sure many others. The original Model S was a good mix between traditional and minimalist designs.

I have a feeling that these sellers declining the $150,000+ offers right now may end up regretting doing so. Each day that passes, the value of them drops. To relist and commit to another week or two, means 20 more will become available that you have to compete against. I'd venture to guess, within 2 months, they'll be selling around $120,000 to $130,000.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Here's the video showing almost 400 CT's waiting to flood the flipper market.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

The Cars and Bids auction was eye-opening today at only $158K. If you plan to flip your CT for a profit, you better hurry! The resale market price has already dropped around $100K in the past couple of weeks from the one that sold for $250K. Won't be long before the prices are below MSRP for used ones, like what happened with the Hummer EV, but I think CT prices will drop to that point faster than the year it took for the Hummer to drop below MSRP.

I get Doug's weekly update email, and in his writeup this week he decided to completely ignore that the CT auction even happened on his site. That's pretty bad.

 

[kizamybute']

I get Doug's weekly update email, and in his writeup this week he decided to completely ignore that the CT auction even happened on his site. That's pretty bad.

Sadly, despite the potential of that site (C&B), it has to be the most poorly run site I've ever come across. They had such an opportunity to boost themselves with that listing and completely failed. Doug has tons of Youtube followers. Generally he reviews them just as they are released on C&B. In this case, despite it being made known that the truck was at C&B's location, he did no such review on this one to promote the listing. On top that, the photos were altered and the thing looked even more horrible than it already is. I tried to list a car through their site and they did the same thing. Showed it in the worst possible light, not at all reflecting how it looked in real life. My listing drew bids only up to 76% of what I sold it for two days later through another site.

That site is so shady in the way they do business. NEVER again.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Sadly, despite the potential of that site (C&B), it has to be the most poorly run site I've ever come across. They had such an opportunity to boost themselves with that listing and completely failed. Doug has tons of Youtube followers. Generally he reviews them just as they are released on C&B. In this case, despite it being made known that the truck was at C&B's location, he did no such review on this one to promote the listing. On top that, the photos were altered and the thing looked even more horrible than it already is. I tried to list a car through their site and they did the same thing. Showed it in the worst possible light, not at all reflecting how it looked in real life. My listing drew bids only up to 76% of what I sold it for two days later through another site.

That site is so shady in the way they do business. NEVER again.

Shady? Stop, are you upset the CT only got $150k? That’s extra $30k was probably from an family member.

The reality is the CT is not exclusive and even businesses are starting to realize that being underwater by $100k doesn’t make sense.