This Latest Attempt to Force FSD Upon Everyone is Hurting the FSD Cause More Than Helping

[KelvinMace]

TACC never has stopped at stop signs and stop lights. That has always been a function of FSD (not even EAP).

If I recall correctly, you said that you've had FSD for a while (maybe since you got your car in 2018). THAT is why your car has been able to stop at stop signs and stop lights.

I bought my car in August 2019 and it only had AP. It would not stop at stop signs and stop lights.
I purchased EAP on September 29, 2020 (it was a sale). I still did not gain the ability to stop at stop signs and stop lights
I was not able to stop at stop signs and stop lights until I received the current FSD free trial.

Stop confusing the facts.

It used to be a choice between TACC and AP (now FSD (Supervised)). One pull TACC, two pulls AP. When in TACC, car stopped at red lights and stop signs. When in AP car stopped at stop signs and red lights. Since update, in TACC mode (12.3.3) car stops at all green lights unless prompted to continue. If prompted to continue, and the light shifts to red, car will blow through anyway, despite still having plenty of time to stop safely, so I must hit the brake to avoid a collision. Also, TACC stops for imaginary traffic lights.

V12.3.3 AP is even more unreliable, moving into the wrong lanes, changing lanes unnecessarily, sporadically ignoring speed limit signs when they go up or down, slowing suddenly and deciding it saw a 30mph sign in a 45mph zone. Also, phantom audio alerts, with no on screen cause. I was recently in manual control, at a light waiting to make a left turn. I proceeded through the light and my turn when the I got a protected green. The system issued a freak out "take control immediately" alert, despite both hands on the steering, manual control, and a normal turn at a green light. This has happened multiple times at different lights.

My wife's car, still on v11, same year, same software package, has none of these problems.

 

[ewoodrick]

The light shows green, but there is a red line in front of the light, and the car warns me that it will be stopping at "traffic control". This is something it did not do prior to the update. If the light was green, it proceeded through without prompting. I can prompt it to proceed (stalk pull, or step on accelerator) when it starts to slow down, but if I do and the light turns red, it will try to run the light, despite having plenty of time to stop appropriately. This is something it NEVER did prior to the update. Also, my wife's 2018 3P, still running v11, behaves correctly.

If the stop bar is red, then it appears that the car is seeing something else that's making it stop. Are there any other lights or signs in the visualization?

 

[Usher]

If the stop bar is red, then it appears that the car is seeing something else that's making it stop. Are there any other lights or signs in the visualization?

This just sounds like the normal behavior when using Autosteer with Stop Sign and Stop Light Control enabled. You have to acknowledge the light by tapping the accelerator and then the red stop bar changes to green and the car continues through without stopping. I tried all the different combinations of options when I had my 3-month trial and this was definitely the most annoying combination for me.

 

[KelvinMace]

If the stop bar is red, then it appears that the car is seeing something else that's making it stop. Are there any other lights or signs in the visualization?

This happens at every stop light. It has to be prompted to continue through all green lights. When prompted, red bar goes away. Unfortunately, if I prompt it, then the light turns red, it will blow the light, despite having ample time to stop safely.

 

[Usher]

This happens at every stop light. It has to be prompted to continue through all green lights. When prompted, red bar goes away. Unfortunately, if I prompt it, then the light turns red, it will blow the light, despite having ample time to stop safely.

This was my experience with it, too. If I'm on a 55 mph road, I have to prompt it as soon as it sees the light or the car will start slowing down, but since I have to prompt it so far away, there was close to a 50% chance the light would change by the time I got to it. I was much happier just turning that option off and manually disabling autopilot when approaching a yellow or red light.

 

[ewoodrick]

This happens at every stop light. It has to be prompted to continue through all green lights. When prompted, red bar goes away. Unfortunately, if I prompt it, then the light turns red, it will blow the light, despite having ample time to stop safely.

It gets confusing with all the different software packages and scenarios.

It appears that if you aren't following someone, it stops. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't do it previously. I seem to remember this is some version from years ago.
But AutoPilot, AFAIK, isn't really spec'd to work on city streets. So, it's unpromised feature set may change. YMMV.

 

[KelvinMace]

It gets confusing with all the different software packages and scenarios.

It appears that if you aren't following someone, it stops. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't do it previously. I seem to remember this is some version from years ago.
But AutoPilot, AFAIK, isn't really spec'd to work on city streets. So, it's unpromised feature set may change. YMMV.

Prior to the update, it did NOT stop at green lights whether someone was in front of me or not. It stopped at red lights and stop signs. It behaved correctly when in TACC mode. After the update, it stops at all green lights, and even sees imaginary ones.

Sorry it is confusing, but Tesla keeps changing the names of its features as legal problems emerge. AP (now called FSD (Supervised)) is supposed to work on city streets, but does so unreliably. TACC used to work on city streets reliably, but now does not. Of course, we now have an "Autosteer mode" which I assume was supposed to be lane keeping + TACC, but who can say.

 

[arbitrage000]

Prior to the update, it did NOT stop at green lights whether someone was in front of me or not. It stopped at red lights and stop signs. It behaved correctly when in TACC mode. After the update, it stops at all green lights, and even sees imaginary ones.

Sorry it is confusing, but Tesla keeps changing the names of its features as legal problems emerge. AP (now called FSD (Supervised)) is supposed to work on city streets, but does so unreliably. TACC used to work on city streets reliably, but now does not. Of course, we now have an "Autosteer mode" which I assume was supposed to be lane keeping + TACC, but who can say.

So the stopping at green lights when using TACC or EAP with stoplights/stop signs turned on just started with the latest 2024.3.10 (FSD 12.3.3) FW?
I'm surprised by this as when I asked about this happening people seemed to have been used to this behavior for a long while now.

I'd never had FSD or EAP before so when I got the 1 month trial one thing I did was test out EAP with stoplight/stopsign control turned ON (an FSD feature) and I was surprised that it stops at green lights unless prodded forward. I couldn't figure out what the point of this was. But when I asked about it last week on the forums people explained how it works and it seemed like it had been like this for awhile.

Can others confirm when this behavior changed? Was it only with FSD V12? V11 never did this?

 

[zoomer0056]

Tesla keeps changing the names of its features

AP has three features (if you have FSD, else only two features) per the Autopilot menu, TACC, Autosteer and FSD(Supervised)

we now have an "Autosteer mode" which I assume was supposed to be lane keeping + TACC

Some like to call Autosteer lane keeping, but Tesla calls it Autosteer. I think things have changed a couple of times as to which (TACC or AS or both) was selected. It used to be, maybe still is ... or not, AS could not be active without TACC also being active. TACC has always been able to be active by itself.

 

[Usher]

So the stopping at green lights when using TACC or EAP with stoplights/stop signs turned on just started with the latest 2024.3.10 (FSD 12.3.3) FW?
I'm surprised by this as when I asked about this happening people seemed to have been used to this behavior for a long while now.

I'd never had FSD or EAP before so when I got the 1 month trial one thing I did was test out EAP with stoplight/stopsign control turned ON (an FSD feature) and I was surprised that it stops at green lights unless prodded forward. I couldn't figure out what the point of this was. But when I asked about it last week on the forums people explained how it works and it seemed like it had been like this for awhile.

Can others confirm when this behavior changed? Was it only with FSD V12? V11 never did this?

My 3-month FSD / EAP trial was on v11 FSD. This is exactly how it behaved for me the whole time with EAP and stop sign / stop light control enabled (Dec 12, 2023 - Mar 12, 2024).

 

[zoomer0056]

I'd never had FSD or EAP before so when I got the 1 month trial one thing I did was test out EAP with stoplight/stopsign control turned ON

Can you share a picture of this setting?

Never mind, here's a pic of firmware 2024.3.10 that came with free FSD (Supervised) V12.3.3 with Autosteer selected.

I should have checked this setting out when the subject first appeared on the forum before doubting its existence. As it is, I only know half of everything.

 

[Kevy Baby]

It used to be a choice between TACC and AP (now FSD (Supervised)). One pull TACC, two pulls AP. When in TACC, car stopped at red lights and stop signs. When in AP car stopped at stop signs and red lights.

Again, you're getting confused what was stopping your car at stop signs and red lights. It is NOT TACC that is doing it: it is FSD. I can 100% unequivocally say that because up until this current free trial, I have not had FSD (I started with AP and then added EAP a year later). At no point prior to this trial did my car ever stop at stop signs and red lights. when TACC was enacted. And this is not just my car, it is all cars that did not have FSD. When this trial expires (I will not be keeping FSD), my car will most likely go back to not stopping at stop signs and red lights when/if I have TACC enabled.

YOUR car did stop at stop signs and red lights because your car had FSD and THAT is what is what was stopping the car. Not TACC: FSD!

 

[Kevy Baby]

AP has three features (if you have FSD, else only two features) per the Autopilot menu, TACC, Autosteer and FSD(Supervised)
View attachment 1037383

While FSD is (currently) showing under the "Autopilot" sub-menu, it is not a feature of AP. AP strictly has two features:

1. Autosteer
2. Traffic Aware Cruise Control

Technically, (current) AP is a subset of FSD

I highly doubt that Tesla will do anything to enhance AP. However, will they change names? Possibly.

 

[arbitrage000]

I'm still confused with KelivnMace saying that his wife's car on FSD V11 doesn't slow for green lights when on TACC or Autosteer. Others seem to say FSD V11 does stop at green lights when in TACC or Autosteer (with the stoplight/stop sign setting turned ON).

 

[zoomer0056]

While FSD is (currently) showing under the "Autopilot" sub-menu, it is not a feature of AP. AP strictly has two features:

1. Autosteer
2. Traffic Aware Cruise Control

Technically, (current) AP is a subset of FSD

I highly doubt that Tesla will do anything to enhance AP. However, will they change names? Possibly.

We are picking at features and feature definitions, so here's a nitpick: you gotta support your statements.

 

[eli_]

Yeah there was one point in time where cars with Enhanced Autopilot could buy FSD and literally the only added feature was stopping for traffic lights on TACC or Autosteer. Before that there were zero features for your money so at least it was something.

 

[Kevy Baby]

We are picking at features and feature definitions, so here's a nitpick: you gotta support your statements.

Well, it's in the Tesla Model S North America Manual (and the Model 3 manual and presumably in the other models' manuals):

Here is Autopilot described exactly as I stated it

Then it describes what gets added by EAP

And finally, it tells what is added in FSP (notice the first bullet point that specifically states that one most have FSD to get the Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control (something that @KelvinMace doesn't seem to get).

This is the same manual that is in your car - it is just easier to screenshot it on my computer.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Yeah there was one point in time where cars with Enhanced Autopilot could buy FSD and literally the only added feature was stopping for traffic lights on TACC or Autosteer. Before that there were zero features for your money so at least it was something.

You can still upgrade from EAP to FSD. This is from the app in the upgrades section (I have EAP).

 

[zoomer0056]

Well, it's in the Tesla Model S North America Manual (and the Model 3 manual and presumably in the other models' manuals):

Here is Autopilot described exactly as I stated it

View attachment 1037483

Then it describes what gets added by EAP

View attachment 1037484

And finally, it tells what is added in FSP (notice the first bullet point that specifically states that one most have FSD to get the Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control (something that @KelvinMace doesn't seem to get).

View attachment 1037485

This is the same manual that is in your car - it is just easier to screenshot it on my computer.

Yup. That's all I was asking for.

 

[Usher]

I'm still confused with KelivnMace saying that his wife's car on FSD V11 doesn't slow for green lights when on TACC or Autosteer. Others seem to say FSD V11 does stop at green lights when in TACC or Autosteer (with the stoplight/stop sign setting turned ON).

The behavior is different depending on your settings (this is from my experience with my 3-month FSD v11 trial, but I think it's still the same):
- If you have Full Self Driving selected, the car will go through green lights without waiting for input from the driver, but will stop at red lights.
- If you have Autosteer selected with Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control enabled, the car will stop at green lights unless you manually confirm you want the car to go through by tapping the accelerator (stop line changes from red to green in the visualization when you tap the accelerator).
- If you have TACC or Autosteer selected and Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control disabled, the car will ignore all stop signs and traffic lights and drive through them (unless it sees traffic).