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I am hoping that we see the Range Calculator software that Tesla showed at the Model X reveal soon. I know that this quote from the 10-K published yesterday isn't new news, but it's still troubling that we don't have a better read on actual range:
We plan to offer Model S with a variety of battery pack options—40 kWh, 60 kWh and 85 kWh—which we estimate will offer a range on a single charge of 160 miles, 230 miles, and 300 miles, respectively, while traveling at a steady speed of 55 miles per hour. The EPA’s new fuel economy requirements will require us to label Model S utilizing new and different energy efficiency testing methodologies. These methodologies differ from the one we have used to estimate the range of the vehicles at a steady speed of 55 miles per hour and could reduce the range reported on the required labeling of our vehicles by up to 30% as compared to our current estimates.
smorgasbord: As a Roadster owner, let me insert some realism here. The Roadster is specced at 245 miles. That's the Ideal Range if you do a Range Charge on a new battery. The practical Actual Range is more like 180 miles - meaning accounting for speeds below 25 or above 50, plus stops/slow downs/hills. That's 74% of the claimed. I'll grant that 200 miles is do-able if you can keep your speeds down, but that's hard to do on the freeway, and there are other power drains if you're not on the freeway.
If you do a Standard Charge, the Ideal Range is typically under 190. I don't know off-hand what a practical Actual Range is because I haven't kept track, but I'd guess 145 miles is the comfortable upper end.
My calcs say the 85kWh battery will have a Standard Charge Ideal Range of 230 miles. The Standard Charge Actual Range will be more like 175 miles.
So, unless you're willing to make your first real drive start with a Range Charge, I'd suggest keeping your round trip to under 175 miles. And that's if you've got the big battery. And that's if you can resist testing out the 0-60 performance after every stop. If you're willing to do a Range Charge, then you might be able to do 230 miles.
Excellent point. Showing the Model S range and 75 mph while not showing a similar car's mpg drop at same speed only makes the Model S look bad.This is why Tesla's upcoming interactive range tool needs to toggle up to 75 MPH and also allow for 2-3 industry standard ICE comparisons. People need to see the range decrease of "average ICE car" drop at faster speeds just like electric cars. We need to talk and see apples to apples. Range vs. MPG won't make sense to people, and this is how they will think. Show people how much more gas they burn at highway speed and the range impact and an EV becomes an easier jump.
It seems like there are two reasons for a reduction in range (1) the difference betweent the different EPA tests and/or the deifference between Tesla's static 55mph range number and the EPA test and (2) the difference between real-world highway speeds of 75 mph versus Tesla's stated 55 mph. And in a bit of coincedence the "hit" in both cases is about 30%.
The difference between 55mph and 75mph I understand fully but why would Tesla's Model S Range decline at a mix of speeds below 55 mph. I would think range would actually increase if you drove at say 30 mph for awhile. Does the EPA mileage test include speeds of 75 mph.
Be curious to hear what sort of range the Roadster gets with city driving vs. highway driving.
Although there's the inefficiency of decelerating and accelerating, your average speed is considerably less than highway speeds.
Don't forget regen braking. Decelerating a Tesla is much less inefficient than an ICE. The more city driving I do, the better mileage I get.
This is why Tesla's upcoming interactive range tool needs to toggle up to 75 MPH and also allow for 2-3 industry standard ICE comparisons. People need to see the range decrease of "average ICE car" drop at faster speeds just like electric cars. We need to talk and see apples to apples. Range vs. MPG won't make sense to people, and this is how they will think. Show people how much more gas they burn at highway speed and the range impact and an EV becomes an easier jump.
I don't know. I got these pictures from someone who attended the Model X reveiling in February.That's an awesome tool. Can you specify pano roof open/closed?
A few key points to keep in mind.Hi!
New to this forum, but an enthusiast (had I just earned more money I would be waiting for a Model S) from the start.
The sales of electric cars is not what a lot of people dreamed about a couple of years ago. Leaf, Volt, Ford, all sells too few of them, they are too expensive, and gives you range anxiety. We all hope Tesla will put some fuel to the electric car, I mean they promise a car that can give you 48 km (300 miles) before recharging.
According to Tesla, these are the numbers:
The 40kW package will give you 0,155 kWh/km = 258 km (160 miles)
The 60kW package will give you 0,175 kWh/km = 342 km (230 miles)
The 85kW package will give you 0,177 kWh/km =480 km (300 miles)
In the biggest Newspaper in Sweden, Dagens Nyheter, journalists has driven both the Volvo C30 electric and Nissan Leaf. It was not a pleasant ride during winter in Stockholm. Nissan Leaf official figures are 160 km, but with heat turned on the reporter could squeeze out half of that. Many columnists here in Sweden have called the electric car a fiasco. Today one of them writes that car companies should stop lying about how far you can drive the ev.
According to him, the real numbers for Volvo and Nissan Leaf are 0,228 kWh per km, if you use the air condition in the summer, and heat in winter etc.
So using these numbers means this for Model S:
The 40kW package will give you 0,228 kWh/km = 175 km (108 miles)
The 60kW package will give you 0,228 kWh/km = 263 km (163 mles)
The 85kW package will give you 0,228 kWh/km =372 km (231 miles)
Considering that Model S is a much bigger and heavier car than both the Volvo and Nissan, and if you pack it with a couple of suitcases and your family and drive it faster then 55mph you´ll probably end up with half of the range Tesla says the car will drive.
Maybe Tesla Model S won't save the electric car after all. Or?
Mod edit by Wido: Merged two threads
The 480km/300mile of the biggest battery won't be a real world range. But, I have a Toyota Auris Hybrid, with the 40L tank Toyota claims I could get somewhere around a 1000km out of single tank. With the Prius they even claim 1200km. I'm happy if I reach 700km out of my tank.
Did anyone check how extremely cold temperatures affect range?