Model X mule(s) show signs of nVidia Tegra X1 Drive PX platform - no rear mirror!

[Aljohn]

If one listens to the full presentation on the nVidia PX, it will be apparent that the PX augments the TACC and auto stop technology. Tesla would not have to implement the nVidia technology day one. Certainly, it could be turned on in software at some later date. Whether installed in the Model X or not, the PX presentation and its auto-learning concept is a worth a listen -- a whole new concept to "programing" and more towards what is needed for autonomous driving. Certainly is not so mundane as to "replace the interior mirror".

nVidia PX Drive PX from NVIDIA Tegra Automotive | NVIDIA

pdf... http://www.nvidia.com/content/tegra/automotive/pdf/automotive-brochure-web.pdf

 

[Gerasimental]

Yikes. No rear view mirror.
I think it's time to get my money back for my reservation. I'm interested in a larger serious EV for my family. Not in a test bed for half baked futuristic technology.
The TACC breaks for no good reason. My collision alert goes off at least two times every day - and I am not an aggressive driver. The center screen used to hang all the time. Right now the navigation system can't figure out the difference between SW Portland and NE Portland. This is a high tech lovers dream. But it's not ready for prime time. Having my "mirrors" suddenly not work in a critical situation could be fatal for me or others.
Right now the Model S has mirrors that I can look into and that show me what's behind me. I don't want a car that has no side mirrors (thankfully that doesn't appear to be legal so far) or no rear view mirror (is that legal in the US? I'm guessing it mind as there are cars with no visibility through the center / back).
Very disheartening.

Come on, how likely do you think it is that Elon will release, after many long delays, a 'test bed for half baked futuristic technology'?
i think the wait is making many of us, perhaps especially those with reservations, go a bit mad.

You might end up very seriously regretting a cancellation even if it does turn out that the car has no mirrors at all, as I believe that in that case Tesla will have found a brilliant replacement that presents a clear improvement (otherwise they wouldn't have done it).
If you get the car and you just really can't get used to the change, or genuinely feel it's a step backwards or even is dangerous to you and your loved ones, I'm sure someone will be willing to pay handsomely to forego the 6+ month wait time. The risk of losing a few $k, if anything, in a potential re-sale is surely not worth giving up your chance to own the best car on earth for?

Just remember this is Tesla Motors.

 

[dirkhh]

Come on, how likely do you think it is that Elon will release, after many long delays, a 'test bed for half baked futuristic technology'?

How long have you been driving a Tesla?
Every single feature so far has been "half baked" when first released. Navigation is still one third baked at best if you ask me. Way points? Multiple route options? Right. Or how about torque sleep? Yeah right, having your car stop on you in the middle of traffic is a sign of this being "fully tested and perfect".
So I fully expect the falcon doors to have issues. I fully expect the navigation to still be sub-par. I fully expect a variety of other random glitches. I had those in my 60 and I'm having them now in my P85D. It's just that so far these glitches were rarely safety critical (OK, I had the TACC break HARD for absolutely no reason in open road, thankfully no one behind me or that would have resulted in being rear-ended. But since the radar/camera setup was re-calibrated at the service center this hasn't happened again).
Having my "not mirrors" stop working in the dark while driving in the rain... not my idea of fun. Having that happen to my wife with the kids in the car? Ummm, NO. Not gonna happen.

If you get the car and you just really can't get used to the change, or genuinely feel it's a step backwards or even is dangerous to you and your loved ones, I'm sure someone will be willing to pay handsomely to forego the 6+ month wait time. The risk of losing a few $k, if anything, in a potential re-sale is surely not worth giving up your chance to own the best car on earth for?

The car is mainly going to be my wife's car. We will test drive when the first cars hit the show room and we'll see if it meets her expectation. If it doesn't have mirrors I can guarantee the answer will be no.
As I said in earlier in this thread... I was overstating that I'd cancel the reservation. When the first cars are shipping in late Q4 or Q5 of this year we'll have plenty of time to decide what to do.

 

[PokerBroker]

My Leaf has this surround camera tech... Is it the same? Similar?

 

[Gerasimental]

How long have you been driving a Tesla?
Every single feature so far has been "half baked" when first released. Navigation is still one third baked at best if you ask me. Way points? Multiple route options? Right. Or how about torque sleep? Yeah right, having your car stop on you in the middle of traffic is a sign of this being "fully tested and perfect".
So I fully expect the falcon doors to have issues. I fully expect the navigation to still be sub-par. I fully expect a variety of other random glitches. I had those in my 60 and I'm having them now in my P85D. It's just that so far these glitches were rarely safety critical (OK, I had the TACC break HARD for absolutely no reason in open road, thankfully no one behind me or that would have resulted in being rear-ended. But since the radar/camera setup was re-calibrated at the service center this hasn't happened again).
Having my "not mirrors" stop working in the dark while driving in the rain... not my idea of fun. Having that happen to my wife with the kids in the car? Ummm, NO. Not gonna happen.

The car is mainly going to be my wife's car. We will test drive when the first cars hit the show room and we'll see if it meets her expectation. If it doesn't have mirrors I can guarantee the answer will be no.
As I said in earlier in this thread... I was overstating that I'd cancel the reservation. When the first cars are shipping in late Q4 or Q5 of this year we'll have plenty of time to decide what to do.

Apologies, I had replied somewhat hastily without finishing the remainder of the thread.

Admittedly, I've owned a Tesla for a total of 0 days (hell, I'm saving up for/waiting to buy an RX-8 to tide me over until I can buy a Model 3 with a little help from TSLA...), and I've only driven Model S twice so I'll defer to you and other owners on the question of how 'half-baked' the car is. However I would say that a lack of certain features, even seemingly basic ones, is different from being a 'half-baked test bed'.
Of course I could go into the discussion of how Model X is very different from Model S in how it was built by a well funded, more experienced company with a bigger and more experienced workforce and presumably far more willing partners and suppliers, and one that has set far higher standards for itself, but that discussion has been had plenty of times.

In any case I hope that the final product they reveal will convince you to buy it and that it brings great pleasure and safety to you and your family. (Last thought, one for an actuary: to what extent is the potential risk of a safety-relevant software glitch offset by the huge increase in crash safety relative to other cars, keeping in mind that high impact crashes don't discriminate between makes and models of cars)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

My Leaf has this surround camera tech... Is it the same? Similar?

What is on the market, surround-camera-wise and auto-pilot-wise, is what I'd call "first generation", maybe second generation. What DRIVE PX is aiming to do, is the third generation in the level of ambition of functionality, quality etc.

But yes, if DRIVE PX is on the Model X, one can expect a surround camera view for parking, only better than the one on current competitors.

 

[dirkhh]

But yes, if DRIVE PX is on the Model X, one can expect a surround camera view for parking, only better than the one on current competitors.

Now there is a piece of good news. I seriously miss that when switching from our Leaf to our Tesla

 

[eloder]

If the Model X doesn't have a rear-view mirror, wouldn't an easy solution simply be to install one aftermarket?

What competition would you really prefer to have over the Model X? There aren't any similar EVs on the market, and (at least in my opinion) Tesla prices aren't that outrageous compared to similar luxury gassers out there. And I highly doubt you'll find any other SUV, period, which will reach the acceleration of a Model X.

 

[ZsoZso]

Tesla may be able to get external rear view cameras past the DOT. There's a good reason for it (range). But no inside rear view mirror? It's going to be a lot harder to get the DOT to buy into that. And the advantage of no inside rear view mirror is what, exactly? It's neat-o?

One huge advantage would be a full clear view forward without the mirror blocking a significant portion of that. I am 6' tall with unusually proportions having taller upper body and shorter legs, which means my head is right up close to the glass of the pano roof (would not fit properly without the pano roof option). From that head position the internal mirror is blocking a good portion of important view of the road ahead especially when I want to make a right turn at an intersection. In some cars the vertical position of the mirror is adjustable so I can shift it right up to the ceiling, but not in the Tesla, it is fixed way too low.

 

[hobbes]

But no inside rear view mirror? It's going to be a lot harder to get the DOT to buy into that. And the advantage of no inside rear view mirror is what, exactly? It's neat-o?

One advantage I could think of is that people complained that in the S the next-gen rear seats blocking the sight from the rearview mirror through the back window. If you had a camera, as long as its clean: much better field of view, even compared to with no backseats at all.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

One advantage I could think of is that people complained that in the S the next-gen rear seats blocking the sight from the rearview mirror through the back window. If you had a camera, as long as its clean: much better field of view, even compared to with no backseats at all.

Good point. To summarize, some pros and cons of replacing rear-view mirror with camera:

+Potentially better forward visibility (if no mirror ir front), especially for tall drivers and given expected no cross-beam panoramic windshield design in Model X perhaps even more so than usual...
+Better rear visibility when camera is clean (no rear seats between the driver and the view, also better field of vision)
- Where is the view displayed, if on the center dash is it a more convenient or less convenient location than a mirror?
- Is a camera harder to keep clean than rear window overall, is three-dimensionality harder to ascertain from an image

 

[engle]

Yikes. No rear view mirror.
I think it's time to get my money back for my reservation. I'm interested in a larger serious EV for my family. Not in a test bed for half baked futuristic technology.
The TACC breaks for no good reason. My collision alert goes off at least two times every day - and I am not an aggressive driver. The center screen used to hang all the time. Right now the navigation system can't figure out the difference between SW Portland and NE Portland. This is a high tech lovers dream. But it's not ready for prime time. Having my "mirrors" suddenly not work in a critical situation could be fatal for me or others.
Right now the Model S has mirrors that I can look into and that show me what's behind me. I don't want a car that has no side mirrors (thankfully that doesn't appear to be legal so far) or no rear view mirror (is that legal in the US? I'm guessing it mind as there are cars with no visibility through the center / back).
Very disheartening.

If the production vehicles lack these mirrors (they may be just testing it...), then I expect that we'll see aftermarket mirrors for buyers that want them to become available from 3rd parties as long as there's a way to install them on the vehicle. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla itself provides it since not all legal jurisdictions will allow the new mirrorless tech.

PowerBroker: My 2014 E350 has the "surround camera" option. You can only enable it when driving < 20(?) mph. It's best used for parking right in the center of a parking spot. I have all the Benz 2014 driving enhancements including "Lane Keeping Assist". This is a lame system, since you have to keep your hands on the wheel. How boring on a long stretch of straight highway! lol Daimler's auto-parking works well, except it is also lame in the sense that it prompts you to shift into Drive/Reverse when necessary to squeeze into a tight spot. It should do this automagically, with the driver only needing to control the pedals. I expect the Model S and X will improve upon this.

 

[sigurdi]

Autoparking = No driver action or no driver at all. ;-)

 

[robby]

If the production X lacks a rear view mirror, it may be because visibility out the back is very bad. The S is already a pretty short view. Add in bigger seats and a third row for adults, and they may be pushing people to use the camera for safety/visibility reasons.

 

[ohmman]

^ This.

IF is a key modifier here. And with a third row, a rear view mirror would be nearly pointless.

 

[RubberToe]

What about keeping the "rear view mirror" as an option in it's current location in the center of the windshield. Except the "rear view mirror" is actually a nice LCD display that provides an even better view of the rear than any mirror ever could. Best of both worlds. You get a better view from the cameras, you don't need a clean line of sight from the "mirror" out the back end, and people who absolutely "won't buy a car without a rear view mirror" get a rear view mirror :wink:

RT

 

[Red Sage]

But no inside rear view mirror? It's going to be a lot harder to get the DOT to buy into that. And the advantage of no inside rear view mirror is what, exactly? It's neat-o?

Panel trucks, bobtails, semi-trucks don't always have the center interior mirror.

Rear view mirrors have often bothered my forward view through a windshield. I would not be greatly dismayed by their absence. I spent some time delivering medical equipment in fully loaded RAM vans several years ago. I got to the point where I hardly used the center mirror at all.

Retrofits are easy.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

If the production X lacks a rear view mirror, it may be because visibility out the back is very bad. The S is already a pretty short view. Add in bigger seats and a third row for adults, and they may be pushing people to use the camera for safety/visibility reasons.

I think this is plausible. Rear view mirrors on modern cars are frankly not very good in general. Cameras are better IMO, as long as they have some way to deal with water droplets that get in the way.

 

[ZsoZso]

I think this is plausible. Rear view mirrors on modern cars are frankly not very good in general. Cameras are better IMO, as long as they have some way to deal with water droplets that get in the way.

There are hydrophobic nano-coatings that are fairly expensive for a significant surface area, but should not be an issue if its applied to the camera lense only. Nissan demonstrated such a coating (The Nissan Paint Prank ft. the World’s Cleanest Car - YouTube) showing how it resists mud it just flows off and leaves the surface clean. See also The Official Ultra-Ever Dry Video - Superhydrophobic coating - Repels almost any liquid! - YouTube

Something like that should be applied to the current rearview HD camera of the Model S too, as it gets often dirty blocking the view in bad weather and there is no wiper to clean it.

 

[EVenthusiast]

Camera lenses getting dirty really is a problem. I have the All Around View as well, and all 4 lenses are pretty much useless 6 months of the year.

There are some aftermarket products out there which let you add a hydrophobic coating to your phone, etc., so now I'm wondering if this can be applied to camera lenses.