This is a commercial vehicle. My neighbor runs a town car service and seems to have one of his two cars perpetually in the shop. It's just part of doing business and he charges a premium that easily covers this AND the gasoline. Does the OP really think he's going to find a better car to do the job? $3300 to get the car back in the fleet making money sounds pretty damn cheap to me. Could you do the same thing with the business lease that TM offers?
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Well, $3300 and a week in the shop.
I hope Tesla's keeping a keen eye on these commercially-used vehicles because there will be a significant market available to long-range BEVs that can handle the taxi grind.
mejojo
Active Member
Is that on an ideal mileage shown?
Well, certainly not after 65000 miles. It's not a lot of miles put in an year, so break. I hope it's just an isolated incident or one of the very few out there, because judging by your post I should be replacing my PC, laptop, phone and bunch of other electronics at home every couple of years, especially the ones I use heavily like my PC.
Just because it's a business expense, it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt the business. I see the argument it's a new technology, but it's in Tesla's interest to make things last longer and not break as often, especially on electronic equipment.
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
Possibly one of those items would need replacing after a couple of years of heavy use. That's just the law of averages, especially with electronics. That's why warranties run out after a period of time. You only get unlimited warranties for things that are not prone to failure such as knives, cookware, hammers and similar types of tools.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that it shouldn't fail with only 65k miles on your charger (and most probably don't) but I was simply responding to your comment that they shouldn't be failing at all:
On-board chargers shouldn't be failing at all,...
I'm on of those people that don't like to replace their stuff every year and I make educated purchases for my business and for myself at home.
I expect things to eventually fail and perhaps "shouldn't be failing at all" was improperly used, I think just because the car is used for commercial purposes, shouldn't have any effect on the chargers, as a matter of fact Tesla should be looking at what causes the failure on a slightly heavier used one and make adjustments, so others don't fail.
We're only going to see more and more Tesla's used as a business, hey they even have Business lease program.
I expect things to eventually fail and perhaps "shouldn't be failing at all" was improperly used, I think just because the car is used for commercial purposes, shouldn't have any effect on the chargers, as a matter of fact Tesla should be looking at what causes the failure on a slightly heavier used one and make adjustments, so others don't fail.
We're only going to see more and more Tesla's used as a business, hey they even have Business lease program.
Lets not forget that Elon said many of the drive replacements were actually the fault of an intermittent wire short. Some, if not potentially all, of those drivetrain replacements we're not actually busted drivetrains.
I don't know what to expect after 60k miles, that's mostly uncharted territory.
Sucks they can't get it in sooner... Can you charge at all (just off a single charger?) depending on your stops for the day I'd think it wouldn't have to be totally out of commission.....
Good luck...
-m
I don't know what to expect after 60k miles, that's mostly uncharted territory.
Sucks they can't get it in sooner... Can you charge at all (just off a single charger?) depending on your stops for the day I'd think it wouldn't have to be totally out of commission.....
Good luck...
-m
We have an HPWC at our garage and it does not work at all. We tried the HPWC at the service center which was actually set at 22 amps andit kicked that one out too.
-P
islandbayy
Active Member
I wonder.... If a on-board charger fails.... Can the vehicle still be supercharged? Since the shunt to link directly to the pack via DC is separate from the on-board chargers.
And while I now have 40,000 miles on my car, I've had 1 battery replacement at 34,000 miles due to contactor failure, I do currently have concerns over my drive train due to a ever increasing CLUNK noise when going from stop to drive, F to R, and Drive to Regen. And it's getting worse despite re greasing and re-torquing things down by service center. It still runs though, so as long as it's covered, I will still drive it. I am still very nervous though. The battery failure has gotten me scared, as up to that point, problems were always MINOR MINOR MINOR stuff, that was no big deal. While the battery warranty and power train warranty are still in effect, now to 125,000 miles for me, Those failures have me scared crap-less. And the quoted cost to repair some of these things out of warranty....... I've said it before, while this is a premium vehicle, electric should be low maintenance and low failure rate, that is the exact opposite of what is happening. I am kicking myself for not getting the 85 for the 8 year unlimited mileage warranty, and kicking myself harder for not getting the extended agreement when it was only $2,500. If I get a major failure that is not covered under warranty, or happens after my warranty is expired, I will have a HUGE 4,600 Lbs paperweight sitting in my driveway for quite a while, while I go back to driving my busted old truck that has been through 2 major accidents that "totaled" it, all the while requiring nothing more then routine oil changes.
And while I have been, and still am a huge tesla fanboy, and will continue to grow in being a tesla fanboy, I hate to say it, but once again, I am scared of the reliability, and am seriously getting turned off by this and high cost of potential repairs. Especially with my factory warranty running out in less then 10,000 miles.
Right now, everything is "Running fine". Drivetrain clunk getting worse though.... covered under warranty. At this point, I do know it's just WHEN, not IF it will get replaced. As for the new battery, the B pack that I got as a replacement started off amazing, with 3 miles more range then my original when new (211 compared to 209), though within 3,000 miles it dropped to 205-207, though holding there. It took nearly 20,000 miles for my original to drop that much. At least it's a B pack instead of a A pack. We'll see what happenes with that.
Sorry to thread crap
And while I now have 40,000 miles on my car, I've had 1 battery replacement at 34,000 miles due to contactor failure, I do currently have concerns over my drive train due to a ever increasing CLUNK noise when going from stop to drive, F to R, and Drive to Regen. And it's getting worse despite re greasing and re-torquing things down by service center. It still runs though, so as long as it's covered, I will still drive it. I am still very nervous though. The battery failure has gotten me scared, as up to that point, problems were always MINOR MINOR MINOR stuff, that was no big deal. While the battery warranty and power train warranty are still in effect, now to 125,000 miles for me, Those failures have me scared crap-less. And the quoted cost to repair some of these things out of warranty....... I've said it before, while this is a premium vehicle, electric should be low maintenance and low failure rate, that is the exact opposite of what is happening. I am kicking myself for not getting the 85 for the 8 year unlimited mileage warranty, and kicking myself harder for not getting the extended agreement when it was only $2,500. If I get a major failure that is not covered under warranty, or happens after my warranty is expired, I will have a HUGE 4,600 Lbs paperweight sitting in my driveway for quite a while, while I go back to driving my busted old truck that has been through 2 major accidents that "totaled" it, all the while requiring nothing more then routine oil changes.
And while I have been, and still am a huge tesla fanboy, and will continue to grow in being a tesla fanboy, I hate to say it, but once again, I am scared of the reliability, and am seriously getting turned off by this and high cost of potential repairs. Especially with my factory warranty running out in less then 10,000 miles.
Right now, everything is "Running fine". Drivetrain clunk getting worse though.... covered under warranty. At this point, I do know it's just WHEN, not IF it will get replaced. As for the new battery, the B pack that I got as a replacement started off amazing, with 3 miles more range then my original when new (211 compared to 209), though within 3,000 miles it dropped to 205-207, though holding there. It took nearly 20,000 miles for my original to drop that much. At least it's a B pack instead of a A pack. We'll see what happenes with that.
Sorry to thread crap
The above post makes me sad. I've watched your battery videos and have followed your trials and tribulations through your battery replacement. I'm sad that what we see happening is dampening our enthusiasm for this brand and potentially over the longevity of our vehicles. I would be lying to say that I'm not concerned. Everyone is in Happyville while under warranty and under Tesla's great customer service umbrella. But look... My Prius went 7 years before I sold it and racked up 122,000 miles. I replaced the 12v battery once and that was it! I bought the 100,000 mile warranty and ended up regretting it. My VW Jetta before that was also pretty reliable, although it did have more than its share of warranty issues. But I did not keep it far beyond the warranty before I sold that one. Acura Integra before that, went over 160,000 miles and blew a hose pipe once.
I do not accept the argument that other premium vehicles in this price range also require service and suffer from component failures. That's not the point. Tesla says it is doing better. It has like an order of magnitude fewer moving parts than an ICE car and Elon says in front of hundreds of people that their drivetrain is nearly indestructible. He recently said they have one back in their labs with over 500,000 miles on it. So why isn't that experience resonating throughout these threads?
Islandbay, can you still buy the extended warranty? I believe you are still inside of your warranty period and are eligible to purchase it. Even at $4,000, it's still a heck of a lot less expensive than a failed supercharging unit. And it should also help you with resale potential down the road. If these failure reports keep up, I don't see a very prolific used market for Model S vehicles that aren't still under a warranty of some kind.
I do not accept the argument that other premium vehicles in this price range also require service and suffer from component failures. That's not the point. Tesla says it is doing better. It has like an order of magnitude fewer moving parts than an ICE car and Elon says in front of hundreds of people that their drivetrain is nearly indestructible. He recently said they have one back in their labs with over 500,000 miles on it. So why isn't that experience resonating throughout these threads?
Islandbay, can you still buy the extended warranty? I believe you are still inside of your warranty period and are eligible to purchase it. Even at $4,000, it's still a heck of a lot less expensive than a failed supercharging unit. And it should also help you with resale potential down the road. If these failure reports keep up, I don't see a very prolific used market for Model S vehicles that aren't still under a warranty of some kind.
timpoo
Member
I feel so sorry for the OP, and as a buyer waiting for my car I'm very concerned as well, especially since we're in Australia and will probably have to wait longer for parts etc.
I can't believe that even for a commercial vehicle the OP had so many things go wrong! Saying it's covered under warranty is great, but that doesn't negate the fact that these failures happened in the first place, which means a lot of inconvenience to the owner. No doubt it's also bad for Tesla because its warranty costs will start getting out of control if these issues aren't brought under control.
I can't believe that even for a commercial vehicle the OP had so many things go wrong! Saying it's covered under warranty is great, but that doesn't negate the fact that these failures happened in the first place, which means a lot of inconvenience to the owner. No doubt it's also bad for Tesla because its warranty costs will start getting out of control if these issues aren't brought under control.
TurboFroggy
Member
Lincoln Town Cars are averaging 18.8 mpg. Average gas prices in the Bay Area $4.50/gallon, that is a savings of $15K at least in just fuel alone. This doesn't take into account oil changes and other maintenance items on the Lincoln. $3K for a charger in 65K miles? I would say your still coming out WAY ahead.
Extended warranty can only be purchased within 30 days of delivery of new Model S.
I don't doubt that they have 500k mile drivetrain in at their lab, but do they have chargers that has gone through the similar tests and not failing?
It is a serious concern and I'd wish we could get some numbers on what parts fail the most in our cars. I doubt Tesla will release such information, but it would be nice for us to know what we can expect.
I drove my 2006 C Class for almost 6 years, 140 000 miles and the only thing I really changed was 1 alternator for $200, oil and breaks. I expect Tesla to do better in the "failing parts department after 65k miles".
@Turbo
Those calculations are irrelevant, if a main component of an EV breaks shy above 65k miles, then we have a major problem. Part of the decision of buying an EV for commercial purposes is to save on those expenses you mentioned and it's reliability it provides.
I don't doubt that they have 500k mile drivetrain in at their lab, but do they have chargers that has gone through the similar tests and not failing?
It is a serious concern and I'd wish we could get some numbers on what parts fail the most in our cars. I doubt Tesla will release such information, but it would be nice for us to know what we can expect.
I drove my 2006 C Class for almost 6 years, 140 000 miles and the only thing I really changed was 1 alternator for $200, oil and breaks. I expect Tesla to do better in the "failing parts department after 65k miles".
@Turbo
Those calculations are irrelevant, if a main component of an EV breaks shy above 65k miles, then we have a major problem. Part of the decision of buying an EV for commercial purposes is to save on those expenses you mentioned and it's reliability it provides.
Within 30 days of expiration of the factory warranty.
Tesla’s extended service program covers the repair or replacement of Model S parts due to defects in materials or workmanship provided by Tesla. Coverage lasts for four years or 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) and begins on the date your warranty expires, as long as you purchase this service within 30 days of your warranty’s expiration.
Nope:
EXTENDED SERVICE AGREEMENT
Tesla’s extended service program covers the repair or replacement of Model S parts due to defects in materials or workmanship provided by Tesla. Coverage lasts for four years or 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) and begins on the date your warranty expires, as long as you purchase this service within 30 days of your warranty’s expiration.
The OP's issues is that this was used for commercial purposes, which puts a higher-than-usual amount of wear and tear on all parts. That's one of the reasons Tesla didn't offer them extended warranty, from what he's saying. That charger was used at least 550 times to do probably over 40kWh worth of work each time, or more. However, like others have stated, I do wonder if the previously failed contactors could have placed some unpleasant conditions for the charger. This would be a good test case for Tesla to look into for RCA. If the OP pays for the replacement of the part, PLEASE retain the old one! Myself and other EE types would love to crack it open and see how/why it failed. If Tesla wants to keep the part, there's no reason the OP should pay for replacement.
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Yes hasty on both extended warranty and previously on battery warranty. Plz be careful, especially on a doomsday thread like this. Unfortunate that some are having repeated failures but important to accurately note long battery and drivetrain warranties as well as availability of extended warranty. I know it is little comfort for the few affected but it's pretty clear by their words and actions that tesla intends to do right - they increased scope of battery warranty and added drivetrain warranty voluntarily.
Bummer. Ok I would be pissed if the Service Center couldn't get me in for a week when the car can't charge at all.
Maybe the $58k salvage guy will want to part his? I'd ask the Service Center first if you brought them a used charger if they'll still install and program it.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ightmare-with-a-(Salvage-Title)-Tesla-Model-S
Other salvages out there that might part out? Can't hurt to ask I suppose. (never dealt with one before myself).. Googled and found this one:
http://erepairables.com/salvage-cars-auction/tesla
Nothing on eBay of interest..... Sorry, feel for ya. May have to spend the cash. Cost of business I guess.
Oh, did they hard reboot the car by pulling whatever fuse it is from the fusebox? Couldn't hurt.
-m
