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19" and 21" Tire Wear (informal) Survey
- Thread starter lolachampcar
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
cfOH
Member
I'm also unconvinced that tread directionality is a myth. I look at treads and it seems like certain designs would give far less traction in the direction of travel (i.e., applying torque) if the tread pattern was reversed. Ultra blocky tread patterns, like snow tires, maybe not so much, but the Eagle F1s on my current car give me no reason to believe that they're equally capable when rolling in either direction.
OK, pondering this some more brings up braking as the anti-example of my hypothesis.
Hmm...
OK, pondering this some more brings up braking as the anti-example of my hypothesis.
Hmm...
Dave,
Yep, I've done it a bunch of times to get full usage out of a set of rear tires (only the rears for me).
cfOH,
You have to dismount them anyway you look at it so I always chickened out and swapped sides at the same time (so they always rotate in the same direction). Jerry has indicated that this is an old wife's tail which agrees with feedback I have gotten from other large tire manufacturer engineers. I have just not tried it.
Yep, I've done it a bunch of times to get full usage out of a set of rear tires (only the rears for me).
cfOH,
You have to dismount them anyway you look at it so I always chickened out and swapped sides at the same time (so they always rotate in the same direction). Jerry has indicated that this is an old wife's tail which agrees with feedback I have gotten from other large tire manufacturer engineers. I have just not tried it.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Just to confirm the answer to a question I posed earlier: despite what the Safety Manual states, all four of the 19" wheels are the same width. All four 21" wheels are the same width as well, but the 21 width differs from the 19 width.
Norristown, PA Service Center rotated my 19s yesterday at 5,500 miles. Now I have 4/32 in front, 9/32 in the rear. Pics here:
When to rotate tires? @annual inspection/12,500 or sooner? Who is doing it? - Page 5
Norristown, PA Service Center rotated my 19s yesterday at 5,500 miles. Now I have 4/32 in front, 9/32 in the rear. Pics here:
When to rotate tires? @annual inspection/12,500 or sooner? Who is doing it? - Page 5
araxara
X-LR M3AWD, MYLR
Expecting at least 20Kmi wear
P85 Vin P03218
21" Continentals.
10,402mi rotated at 7,500mi, so rears are on front now.
Regen on "max".
294 Wh/mi lifetime average.
80% of mileage is through mountainous roads at average speed of 55mph.
Current depth readings in inches measured from inside out for each tire near wear indicators. Note new tire depth is 10/32" which is 0.3125".
RR 0.205 0.262 0.251 0.212
LR 0.193 0.256 0.238 0.237
RF 0.191 0.238 0.204 0.213
LF 0.240 0.234 0.213 0.181
Looks like tread is at least 7/32 overall (0.219") so at least 20Kmi life expectancy.
P85 Vin P03218
21" Continentals.
10,402mi rotated at 7,500mi, so rears are on front now.
Regen on "max".
294 Wh/mi lifetime average.
80% of mileage is through mountainous roads at average speed of 55mph.
Current depth readings in inches measured from inside out for each tire near wear indicators. Note new tire depth is 10/32" which is 0.3125".
RR 0.205 0.262 0.251 0.212
LR 0.193 0.256 0.238 0.237
RF 0.191 0.238 0.204 0.213
LF 0.240 0.234 0.213 0.181
Looks like tread is at least 7/32 overall (0.219") so at least 20Kmi life expectancy.
P85 vin 3156
21 Conti
11,786 mi
regen - max
344 Wh/mi
tread on all 4 is 8/32, 7/32 on rear insides, so should have another 10k mi. left in them - tire store measured for me when I removed them (replaced with aftermarket wheels and tires)
90% of driving is home to town and back - that's 70-80 miles, pretty much every day. Some spirited driving during...
Just wondering here... the lack of tire life is directly proportional to:
pick one:
the amount of grin on your face
the amount of time the traction control light is on
the number of times you have to beat the person next to you at the light (not racing, just getting 'to' the speed limit sooo much sooner)
the number of times you have to push everyone in the car tight against their seat
Ok - I am guilty on all of the above, but maybe not as much as some of you based on my tires
21 Conti
11,786 mi
regen - max
344 Wh/mi
tread on all 4 is 8/32, 7/32 on rear insides, so should have another 10k mi. left in them - tire store measured for me when I removed them (replaced with aftermarket wheels and tires)
90% of driving is home to town and back - that's 70-80 miles, pretty much every day. Some spirited driving during...
Just wondering here... the lack of tire life is directly proportional to:
pick one:
the amount of grin on your face
the amount of time the traction control light is on
the number of times you have to beat the person next to you at the light (not racing, just getting 'to' the speed limit sooo much sooner)
the number of times you have to push everyone in the car tight against their seat
Ok - I am guilty on all of the above, but maybe not as much as some of you based on my tires
SCW-Greg
Active Member
P85 vin 3156
21 Conti
11,786 mi
regen - max
344 Wh/mi
tread on all 4 is 8/32, 7/32 on rear insides, so should have another 10k mi. left in them - tire store measured for me when I removed them (replaced with aftermarket wheels and tires)
90% of driving is home to town and back - that's 70-80 miles, pretty much every day. Some spirited driving during...
Just wondering here... the lack of tire life is directly proportional to:
pick one:
the amount of grin on your face
the amount of time the traction control light is on
the number of times you have to beat the person next to you at the light (not racing, just getting 'to' the speed limit sooo much sooner)
the number of times you have to push everyone in the car tight against their seat
Ok - I am guilty on all of the above, but maybe not as much as some of you based on my tires
And one more... Your avg. Wh/mi.
I gotta work on that, mine is 344 right now (5 weeks in)
> I'm also unconvinced that tread directionality is a myth. [cfOH]
Wasn't it that running against the arrow would not weaken or destroy the tire construction (beads, sidewalls, belts, etc), but that you are on your own using unsymmetrical treads in the opposite direction from the standpoint of road adhesion.
--
Wasn't it that running against the arrow would not weaken or destroy the tire construction (beads, sidewalls, belts, etc), but that you are on your own using unsymmetrical treads in the opposite direction from the standpoint of road adhesion.
--
There are two kinds of directional tires: casing directional, and tread pattern directional.
There are also asymmetrical tires.
1. Tread pattern directional tires are directional for water elimination. Pointing them in the wrong direction will reduce their hydroplaning capabilities (so it's not recommended) but won't otherwise harm the tire. This is the usual kind of directional tire sold.
2. Casing directional tires have the splices set in a particular direction and running them the wrong way could cause the tread to peel (when used at the limits of adhesion). There are not many of these tires and almost all are in the DOT approved race tire class. They are sold for competitive events where the class says DOT approved tires must be used. They often have a UTQG treadwear rating of 50.
3. Asymmetrical tires have a different tread pattern from inside to outside. The purpose is to have a solid outside for cornering and an open inside for water dispersion. Mounting the tires with the outside in will not harm the tire. Handling will be consistent as long as all four tires are installed the same way. (In practice, hydroplaning qualities will be improved if the outside is mounted on the inside and this is frequently done by racers to avoid having to purchase a set of rain race tires in the DOT tire class races.) Normally you get improved wear if the outside is mounted to the outside, but when there is no adjustment and the tires are wearing on the inside, it's one way to increase the life of the tires.
4. Asymmetrical and casing directional tires. These tires come with an A tire and a B tire and are mounted and rotated in an X fashion. The directionality has to be maintained. These kind of tires are very rare.
Casing directional and tread pattern directional tires have very different arrow markings. Tread pattern directional tires rotate the same way regardless of wheel position or car type (the arrows point clockwise) . Casing directional tires have the arrows pointing towards each other when the arrow is at the top of the tire on a rear wheel drive car and away from each other when it's a front wheel drive car.
cfOH
Member
I'm soooooo glad Jerry picked up the ball on this one
Ditto! It's heartening when what you think you know is verified by someone who actually does. ;-)
Excellent information from you and lola on this....Thank you both. So, hypothetically speaking with my wider tires on the back of my P+ I can rotate them side to side AND reverse then inside to outside on both front and back to increase tire longevity? Also, hypothetically, I should do this when the inside tread is down to what % of original depth? I say hypothetically speaking to make you aware that this is general advice and that you are not advocating anyone do this! :biggrin: Thanks
On two other cars, I had my best success swapping across the back with roughly 1/3 of the inner tread remaining. The fronts will probably not require much love.
Chgd Up
Sig 1004
P85
25,252 miles
342 Wh/mi (a lot of highway)
Front 6/32"
Rear....
Had to replace the rear 21's, they were showing cords on the inside edges. Only actually had one rotation and about 16,000 miles on these as the winter tires were on for about 9k. These tires are working pretty hard with both the acceleration and regen. I don't think it helped that most of these miles were highway in the low suspension mode with the highest amount of negative camber.
25,252 miles
342 Wh/mi (a lot of highway)
Front 6/32"
Rear....
Had to replace the rear 21's, they were showing cords on the inside edges. Only actually had one rotation and about 16,000 miles on these as the winter tires were on for about 9k. These tires are working pretty hard with both the acceleration and regen. I don't think it helped that most of these miles were highway in the low suspension mode with the highest amount of negative camber.
updated
most are seeing good wear but the ones that are not are getting clobbered. There has got to be a reason.
most are seeing good wear but the ones that are not are getting clobbered. There has got to be a reason.
My S85 w/19" rims has ~13,600 miles and is at the service center for the 12,500 service. Got called by the service manager yesterday that my rear tires only are down to the wear bars & advised I replace them.
I've never rotated them, but am not a terribly aggressive driver, so was pretty surprised to hear they're so worn this early. At $448/tire that's going to get expensive quickly.
I've never rotated them, but am not a terribly aggressive driver, so was pretty surprised to hear they're so worn this early. At $448/tire that's going to get expensive quickly.
mnx
2018 M3P
Those 19" goodyears cost 448$ per tire from Tesla??????? They're 136$ each on tirerack. Perhaps it's 448$ per set of 4???
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