Would you Buy Model S if it had an ICE instead of Electric?

[SCW-Greg]

Part of my rationalization is the fuel costs savings. I've done some pretty detailed math and calculate I'll save nearly $20k over 5 years in the difference between gas and electricity where I live. (Gas is more expensive and electricity less expensive in Canada compared to the US, in general terms).

I put the Model S up against ICE cars $20 - $30k less, and the Model S starts looking pretty good.

Here's another way to look at the value of an EV, your Model S, because it's likely many, if not all of these things (that an ICE isn't). Put these into a spreadsheet and experiment to see what value you put on yours. NOTE: Some of these overlap, and some you will likely put no value on - that's okay. Every person will weight these differently.

What are you willing to pay or invest in over 5 years to ...
__________ get off foreign oil?
__________ get off gas all together?
__________ avoid the nuisance of filling up at a gas station?
__________ reduce/eliminate CO2 / a chugging tail pipe?
__________ get this kind of quiet ride and efficiency?
__________ get this kind of performance?
__________ get the very latest technology - the coolness that Tesla has packaged into the Model S?
__________ get the sum of all its features?

__________ help disrupt /change the auto industry?
__________ help Tesla succeed and bring more innovative cars to market?
__________ invest, rather than in stock, but in tangible form?
__________ because you believe in Elon and his existing and future endeavors?

__________ How much do you expect to save in gas & engine maintenance?
__________ What would you normally be willing to pay for a new performance sedan?

=_________ ADD these up and you'll get the value you place on an EV like the Model S

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Btw, there already is a poll, similar to what you are suggesting...
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8927-Your-one-primary-reason-for-buying

 

[Sig698]

Not for me, I ideally wanted something smaller and a bit sportier. I was very close to pulling the trigger on an R8, but the electric allure of the model S won me over despite its size.

 

[PhatCat]

I do like the MSP design, but there's no way I'd buy a big, heavy two-wheel drive ICE with so few available tech features. I'd make do with something a little slower than the MSP ... say, the new Boxster S (Porsche rates the PDK at 4.5 and 4.8 in manual) or for those nasty NY winters, the AWD Audi RS5 (4.5).

 

[1young1]

No way. I love the exterior design of the car and the EV benefits but the lack of many luxury features and the quality of the interior would prevent me from buy this car if it was an ICE considering the price category.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

So Elon Musk says that Model S is the "best car in the world", electric or otherwise. Much of the automotive press agree that if not the best, pretty darned close.

So my question for those who have bought or reserved is, would you still be shelling out the same bucks for Model S if it was just a plain ICE-powered car, given that it still might be "best in the world"?

For me, the answer is likely not. This car is well over my "typical" budget for a new car, but I am a reservation holder because I believe in the promise of electric propulsion and am willing to be an early adopter of this new technology. Other EVs don't meet my range or size requirements, and that's why Model S is my only real EV option.

Just curious to know if we are a bunch of automotive enthusiasts, EV enthusiasts or some combination thereof.

Cheers!

Mike

If it got 90mpg and was otherwise identical in looks and performance then yes, maybe I would. Unfortunately, I suspect that performance like that is well beyond ICE or we would have seen it by now.

 

[Majerus]

There is no way I would buy the S if it was not all electric. Typically cars this size with ICE compromise speed or efficiency. With the S i get performance, and efficiency of the electric drive train.

 

[AnOutsider]

If it got 90mpg and was otherwise identical in looks and performance then yes, maybe I would. Unfortunately, I suspect that performance like that is well beyond ICE or we would have seen it by now.

How so? Didn't someone just post Panamera numbers that beat the S for about the same price and size?

 

[Cattledog]

Are you kidding? Seriously, are you kidding? (I'm actually jealous, I love the question)

NO!

Would you have bought your Australian Cattle Dog if it was a Pekingese?
Would you have bought your LED TV if it was a tube TV?
Would you have bought your iPhone if it was a rotary dial?
Would you have bought your tablet if it was a desktop?
Would you have bought your wine if it was beer?
Would you have bought your first class ticket if it were economy?

The 'E' of EV is the essence of the car. It can't be removed.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

So it's looking like we're leaning more to the EV enthusiast side of the equation. I know this might not be a representative sample, but I wonder what this says about Tesla trying to bring the EV mainstream (i.e. where people buy the car for the car and not because it's electric). Maybe that's the task of Gen 3 after they make some money off us guys

Everyone is overlooking the performance and efficiency by bundling it under the "EV drivetrain" rubric. The problem is that gas powered cars are basically unable to match the Model S in terms of performance and efficiency. So everyone is saying "no" because the Model S with an ICE would just be a junky, low performing (relatively speaking), low efficiency car.

Based on simple metrics that cars are measured on, Model S is amazing. It is not currently possible to design an ICE vehicle which performs as well and that is a true fact. We are only enthusiasts in the sense that we are recognizing reality in the case of Model S. This is not a Leaf, which costs twice as much as the competition while only having an 80 mile range.

This is a fully featured, high performance luxury vehicle that is extremely efficient and is capable of going toe to toe with any gas powered car once you assume available SuperChargers.

An extremely long roadtrip (1000 miles or more) would take a few hours more than an ICE, but that is more than balanced by the fact that except when taking a trip like that, you don't ever need to stop to refuel. But you absolutely could drive from Los Angeles to New York in the Model S without adding more than 7 hours to a 3 day trip if you have SuperChargers on the road and somewhere to charge the car while you sleep.

Beyond that, it thrashes the competition despite having an MSRP that is not dramatically more. The Model S Performance is actually cheaper than most of its competitors before you factor in the huge savings you get from its hyper-efficiency.

 

[chmod a+wrx]

I can barely afford the Model S!!!

I am considering it only because it is electric and because it is a game changer IMHO.....

If I ultimately decided against the Model S, my next car purchase would be either a hybrid or plug-in hybrid......

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

Part of my rationalization is the fuel costs savings. I've done some pretty detailed math and calculate I'll save nearly $20k over 5 years in the difference between gas and electricity where I live. (Gas is more expensive and electricity less expensive in Canada compared to the US, in general terms).

I put the Model S up against ICE cars $20 - $30k less, and the Model S starts looking pretty good.

I totally agree with this, except to point out that the Model S performs better than competitors that are $20-$30k less than it. The MS85 is $70k here in the states. A $50k 528i is smaller, slower, louder, dirtier, less efficient(!!) and handles worse than the MS85. The closest competitor is the 550i in terms of ICE is the 550i GT. It's dirtier, louder, handles worse, gets even worse gas mileage than the 528i and costs ~$65-$70k.

Elon Musk is right to refer to Model S as the best car in the world. It doesn't have the best interior, but if interior features like cup holders were really critical than BMW would never have stolen market share from Cadillac and Lincoln.

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How so? Didn't someone just post Panamera numbers that beat the S for about the same price and size?

There are many versions of Panamera. Every one that I know of that is the same price as MSP doesn't perform as well. The current Car and Driver review for Panamera GTS lists it at $110k, 4.1sec 0-60 and 12.7sec 1/4mile. Car and Driver utilizes rollout, so the equivalent numbers for MSP are ~$90k, 4.0sec 0-60 and 12.6sec 1/4 mile.

Plus, as I pointed out I was including gas mileage when I said an ICE vehicle was incapable of matching Model S. Panamera GTS gets 16/24 vs 88/90mpge for MSP.

Edit: Ok, found the Edmunds review from today and it is a straight 4.1 0-60, and 12.5 1/4 mile. Rechecking C&D they only had an estimate. Doesn't matter since Edmunds has a more transparent methodology. But the Panamera GTS is still $110k, has a lot less cargo space and gets poor gas mileage

 

[herbvdh]

NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I have been wanting an electric from the early 1980's but before 1985 when VW had one out. Then suddenly heard no more of it. At about the same time some one a block from me had an EV street legal but more like a "golf cart" it was totally open again in the 80's. I actually ordered a Toyota Rav4 EV originally then got the letter "Due to lack of interest etc."

 

[rcc]

Let's not take the "best car" thing literally. The takeaway from that slogan is that Elon wants the Model S to be good enough that people will buy it because it's a really good car that's electric. Not because it's an electric car that you can make yourself put up with because it's electric.

I think the Model S passes that test.

Having driven a Model S, if I were interested in cars in that price range, I'd put the Model S on my short list. The Model S costs more than what I'd prefer to pay for a car but I'm willing to go up to that price range because the Total Cost of Ownership should be lower than the equivalent ICE (due to both fuel and maintenance) and because in CA, the Model S will let me drive in the carpool lane for years to come.

The spartan interior doesn't bother me because I'm used to driving a BMW. Which is an Ultimate Driving Machine, not an Ultimate Cushy Interior Machine or an Ultimate Passenger Convenience Machine. BMW interiors have always been spartan. The Model S interior is right in line.

 

[onlinespending]

Part of my rationalization is the fuel costs savings. I've done some pretty detailed math and calculate I'll save nearly $20k over 5 years in the difference between gas and electricity where I live. (Gas is more expensive and electricity less expensive in Canada compared to the US, in general terms).

I put the Model S up against ICE cars $20 - $30k less, and the Model S starts looking pretty good.

One of the most overlooked inherit costs with a battery EV, such as the Model S, is the cost of replacing the battery itself! If it degrades considerably after 7 to 10 years, you may be looking at a $20k cost just to replace it if you wish to continue driving the Model S. This largely offsets the savings in fuel costs. And even if you no longer wish to drive the Model S after just 7 to 10 years, it's resale value will be largely hit when trying to dump it with an aged battery, since the new owner will likely have to take on the cost of replacement if he wishes it to operate it with a range similar to what it got new. But at any rate, I'm not buying the Model S under some guise that it's going to save me money. To answer the OP's question, I would not buy the Model S if it were an ICE, though I would buy if it were a hybrid or plug-in hybrid and got gas mileage on par with the Toyota Prius.

 

[William13]

NO. I want an electric car. The Aptera fell through. The leaf will only work 5 out of 7 days for me. I would have considered a Volt. I might even have purchased a Think City......

 

[ddruz]

Another No, definitely not. I wouldn't dream of it. I'd never consider buying any of the premium sedans Model S is competing with.

 

[jimbakker666]

No. Model S as an ICE is too expensive, and regardless there is far too much mystery going on behind-the-scenes to give me peace of mind.

 

[Dr Chill]

Not for me, I ideally wanted something smaller and a bit sportier. I was very close to pulling the trigger on an R8, but the electric allure of the model S won me over despite its size.

If you could afford an R8, buy it. It kills the Tesla S in its EV form. You're talking apples and oranges here.

 

[MURF]

Uh hell no! The EV architecture (drive-train, torque, low center of gravity, ultra safe 5+ star crash safety, extremely good use of space, low cost to "fill the tank" etc...) is essential in making the Model S the best car in the world!!! Hybrids generally speaking do not make economic sense. Get a turbo direct injection diesel powered vehicle or a good EV. A good EV being the best option by a mile. I almost bought a Nissan Leaf, but have decided to wait for the Model X. I'll get a 3rd Generation Tesla also. Heck, I'm sure I'll buy a used Model S in 5 years or so also just to complete the set.

Peace to all =)

 

[mikevbf]

NO. I want an electric car. The Aptera fell through. The leaf will only work 5 out of 7 days for me. I would have considered a Volt. I might even have purchased a Think City......

Found a sad story on Think City:
Last Few Think City Electric Cars Being Finished in Indiana