Won't gamble with firmware updates any more

[thenaimis]

Yes, I'm one of *those people* who harbor an intense dislike of the v9 UI. Would it really be that hard for Tesla to provide the version number and release notes of the software updates before agreeing to install?

Not going to bother with all the reasons to hate v9, that topic's been beat to death already.

Point is, even if they did announce new changes that might actually be worth installing, there's no way to know I'm getting those updates.

 

[ewoodrick]

The new downloads option may help. But simple answer is to get used to the new UI or sell the car and get one that doesn't change.

 

[boaterva]

What downloads option? All it will tell you is that something is waiting. Are you just going to ignore an update until Tesla decides there is one with something like a certificate that you ‘have’ to have and then it will download automatically.

Even Microsoft doesn’t let you pick and choose any more!

 

[Silicon Desert]

Yes, I'm one of *those people* who harbor an intense dislike of the v9 UI. Would it really be that hard for Tesla to provide the version number and release notes of the software updates before agreeing to install?

Not going to bother with all the reasons to hate v9, that topic's been beat to death already.

Point is, even if they did announce new changes that might actually be worth installing, there's no way to know I'm getting those updates.

Well I haven't tried v9 or any other updates in the last couple months. I ignore the car's desire to update. So I am with you on the complaint that I want to know in advance as to what it plans to install. Frankly, I am happy with my stable and reliable version from several months ago. I'll update some day, but only after I see something significant that gets good reviews. It seems like the moto of many people these days is.... "If it ain't broke, fix it anyway."

 

[BerTX]

What downloads option? All it will tell you is that something is waiting. Are you just going to ignore an update until Tesla decides there is one with something like a certificate that you ‘have’ to have and then it will download automatically.

Even Microsoft doesn’t let you pick and choose any more!

One benefit possibly of the download OPTION is that you don't have to even download the new version. If you don't want to upgrade, don't download it. Maybe there will be no more forced downloads and nagging to install! Maybe.

Of course if you don't download the version with the download option, I have no idea what will happen...

 

[Electroman]

I haven't updated since April last year. Almost nag free. I love it. I will trade nag-free to all the NoA and stuff.

 

[thenaimis]

Are you just going to ignore an update until Tesla decides there is one with something like a certificate that you ‘have’ to have and then it will download automatically.

That's actually a really interesting point that I hadn't considered. It makes me wonder how Tesla manages the certificates for the VPN. Are they deployed as part of software updates, or are they deployed independently and without user input? Or some other method? One would hope that the certs are deployed independently of the software updates.

Oh, and I hope Tesla doesn't follow microsoft's example wrt updates - I'd really rather not have the car reboot itself while I'm cruising down the highway at 70mph.

 

[erik_k]

"If it ain't broke, fix it anyway."

That’s bad, but even worse is when you hear politicians say “We must do *something!” It usually means bad legislation coming!

 

[thecloud]

Even Microsoft doesn’t let you pick and choose any more!

That policy is changing next month to give users more control. The new Windows 10 update policy won't download and install "feature" updates automatically:

If you don't click download and install, you don't have to install a given feature update as long as the version of Windows 10 that you are running is within (and not too close to the end) of its given Microsoft support window. (Thanks to Windows Central's @zacbowden for the clarification and a Microsoft spokesperson for confirming this interpretation is correct.)

Tesla's major software updates are great if you're getting new features and improvements, but not so great when they introduce usability problems or remove functionality. I'd like to think there are more than just two choices: get used to it or sell the car. So far, not updating to v9 has been a workable third option for me; I still have the UI features that v9 removed, and am still happy with my car. I'm continuing to look forward to a future version that pushes the envelope and improves usability. Sometimes there's a trade-off, and you're willing to give up something (like the round speedometer) to get something better (TACC and Autosteer). There wasn't a similar benefit that I could see in v9.

Another consideration here is that as time goes on, there is less incentive for software updates to support older hardware. As with consumer electronics like laptops and phones, new software tends to be written to take advantage of current hardware, and can run slower on older devices (especially compared to previous versions of the software.) What I've read about v9 performance on MCU1, specifically how other functions stutter or skip unless the sketch app is brought up to hide the full-screen map, seems to confirm this impression.

I would hope that Tesla has thought about the possibility of separate "feature update" and "security update" trains, so that getting the latter does not require the former. Obviously, some transparency about the contents of the updates before installing them would be awesome.

 

[Evoforce]

That's actually a really interesting point that I hadn't considered. It makes me wonder how Tesla manages the certificates for the VPN. Are they deployed as part of software updates, or are they deployed independently and without user input? Or some other method? One would hope that the certs are deployed independently of the software updates.

Oh, and I hope Tesla doesn't follow microsoft's example wrt updates - I'd really rather not have the car reboot itself while I'm cruising down the highway at 70mph.

Car can do update on the fly...

 

[appleguru]

That's actually a really interesting point that I hadn't considered. It makes me wonder how Tesla manages the certificates for the VPN. Are they deployed as part of software updates, or are they deployed independently and without user input? Or some other method? One would hope that the certs are deployed independently of the software updates.

Oh, and I hope Tesla doesn't follow microsoft's example wrt updates - I'd really rather not have the car reboot itself while I'm cruising down the highway at 70mph.

The car gets its vpn certs at mfg time, and they generally don’t change unless you need a new MCU or engineering gets involved.

With that said, tesla is moving away from openvpn to a new websockets based system for mothership, app, remote service, etc connectivity. This means eventually they may force people to newer fw so they can stop supporting the “legacy” openvpn system. Realistically given how many MCU1 cars are out there already with openvpn, they likely will have to retain at least “basic” support for it indefinitely. But that could be as simple as an openvpn server instance with a stub that forces people to the update to the new firmware (no more app support, etc without updating). Still a few years before they will likely hit that point, but it will happen as supporting duplicate/legacy systems is more costly with every update...

 

[boaterva]

Car can do update on the fly...

Good to know! In any case, I recall there was a forced update when a hacker found a issue, perhaps? That may have been an update separate from a general release of firmware but until Tesla actually separates out things, it will be get nothing as some say they have done or everything (if we could even read the dang Release Notes!).

And then when you go a Service Center you hope they don’t notice you are so far behind that they don’t actually load something to be sure the car isn’t stuck

 

[P100D_Me]

Would it really be that hard for Tesla to provide the version number and release notes of the software updates before agreeing to install?

100% agree, it shouldn't be so hard to do this.

And then when you go a Service Center you hope they don’t notice you are so far behind that they don’t actually load something to be sure the car isn’t stuck

Or they use that as an excuse as to why something isn't working correctly. I have had hit and miss operational TPMS since I got the car, when the PSI intermittently reads '-' on all four wheels the reason given was 'a software issue that will be fixed in an update'. Now such an update has still not arrived but if I wasn't updating then you'd get nowhere trying to get it fixed.

 

[whitex]

1. Tesla can deploy an update without user consent, as they have when disabling auto-pilot in Hong Kong (link here). Given they have root shell access to all cars, they can really do anything they want to the car remotely (proof- they have actually reverted wk057's car after he leaked that a P100D image file he found in the latest firmware upgrade - search TMC for details if you want).
2. Tesla doesn't release individual patches, they only release the next version, so it's an all-or-nothing update system. It being an always internet connected device, you need to keep getting the security patches unless you want to find your car hacked, or even infected by accident like the Smart TV's which find themselves infected with smart-phone-intended malware (people turning on their TV's to find randsomeware requesting bitcoins to decrypt their device).
3. Tesla's are dependent for the mothership server services in order to operate. Things like NAV maps, autopilot data (hi res maps), supercharging enablement, etc. require a server connection (aside from some very limited caching). As Tesla upgrades their servers, they will upgrade all the cars to stay compatible. Any cars not upgraded, might eventually find themselves unable to connect to the server. Give it long enough, and even the update service itself may not reconnect (at least not to Tesla servers, it might happily connect to some rogue server which exploits some vulnerability in your car's software which Tesla patched but by refusing to update you refused the patch).

So, bottom line is that you need the damned updates to keep you car secure and functioning. Not updating might result in your car getting hacked and/or your car services stop working, maybe no nav, maybe no autopilot, maybe unable to supercharge, or even update (will have to pay SC to apply latest update manually).

PS> I hate V9 too, every time I use it. Nothing improved on AP1, bunch of things screwed up. AP2 has some nice blind spot detection improvements with the cameras, but UI wise sucks just as much (ok, a little less if you have MCU2, but still).

 

[mvotb]

I'm still on V8 because I never update until after the complaints about an update get resolved. I will never install V9 unless it maintains my V8 functionality. Tesla needs to fix this pronto, and never put out a POS like V9 again. I have an AP 1 car. Cars are not cheap products that can be replaced due to lack of software support. I totally support theTesla mission, it's hard to believe they would put out V9 for S and X especially AP 1 cars. I hope they have the ability to send out different updates to the various cars ,or they are going to have big problems. Went to the service center last week because my music wouldn't play. They told me they can't do any analysis unless they install V9. I left. Unless Tesla realizes that they need to support all versions of their cars individually for optimum functionality, it will be hard for me to buy another one. I really hate that I no longer feel comfortable recommending Tesla the way I used to.

 

[P100D_Me]

Unless Tesla realizes that they need to support all versions of their cars individually for optimum functionality, it will be hard for me to buy another one.

We read countless quotes on here and online how Tesla is essentially a software company that happens to make cars. Unfortunately that concept of your old equipment isn't powerful enough anymore so buy the latest model is exactly how software companies work. If you are a keen gamer then you probably do buy new graphics cards, faster CPU, more RAM etc every other year so the latest games run the best, but that shouldn't apply to a car, I feel sorry for the people with the older cars that are getting left behind and forgotten because they won't update yet the reasons for not updating are very valid when their 'old hardware' doesn't play nice with the latest software.

 

[Electroman]

I feel sorry for the people with the older cars that are getting left behind

No need to feel sorry. We got exactly what we paid for. it only got better, but may be not as good as the newer ones with newer hardware, but that is not a reason to feel sorry or upset about.

 

[thenaimis]

We read countless quotes on here and online how Tesla is essentially a software company that happens to make cars

Maybe, but they're not particularly good at it. There have been numerous hints of cringe-worthy software development process. I'd expect better process control than what I'm seeing when there are safety-of-life issues involved. Too many times even before v9 I've been left with the impression that very little actual testing is being done before deployment, and that they don't really have many experienced software developers on staff.

 

[whitex]

I'm still on V8 because I never update until after the complaints about an update get resolved. I will never install V9 unless it maintains my V8 functionality.

Easier said than done. Your music is already not streaming, imagine you nav no longer working, your AP not available, or that you can't supercharge anymore, and the only way to fix it is to install v9 - do you plan to drive such crippled car to keep 8.1?

 

[mvotb]

Easier said than done. Your music is already not streaming, imagine you nav no longer working, your AP not available, or that you can't supercharge anymore, and the only way to fix it is to install v9 - do you plan to drive such crippled car to keep 8.1?

You are absolutely correct and that is my point. I had turned off wifi to disable updates to make sure I didn't end up with V9. I turned wifi back on and music came back. I don't know what wifi has to do with music unless they sent a music update while I was disconnected. I will resist V9 as long as I can, but if I have to have the car worked on, or as if you say, I loose other things I need, then I will have to update. If they haven't fixed V9 for AP1 by then, I will be really pissed off. If Tesla " leaves our cars behind" as P100D-me said, then I can know longer trust Tesla, and will reluctantly have to buy something else when the time comes. That's why I said I hope they can update our cars as individual types of cars and not as all Teslas. V9 seems to have been sent to all Teslas, as if one size fits all, even though the hardware is very different, and as far as AP1 cars, Tesla just screwed us all, as far as I'm concerned. I'm a Contractor and not techy at all, but do the rest of you know if Tesla has the ability to send OTA to different types of Teslas, as in AP1 cars, vs AP2, vs M3?