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Schedule for Autopilot features
- Thread starter si123ca
- Start date
Did they remove the requirement to keep your hands on the wheel at all times in the MB? That makes a difference to me.
Otherwise, you're right-- and Infiniti, I believe, does have no-hands autopilot today on some models.
Otherwise, you're right-- and Infiniti, I believe, does have no-hands autopilot today on some models.
Common sense tells you that you need to control the car and take responsibility for it. But in the USA, being an uninformed moron is a defense and a reason to sue. Most auto manufacturers address that by making you touch a button on a screen each and every time you get into the car, as if anybody would read a warning each time. In other countries, it's not so much of an issue.
About a month ago, I was in a cave in New Zealand. It involved steep drops with ropes, dropping through gushing underground waterfalls, crawling through tight tunnels, etc., and there was no waiver to sign. I mentioned it to somebody there and he told me about a time that somebody tried to sue for getting injured in a different cave. The judge said something along the lines of "You were in a cave you idiot. What did you expect?"
starting to get the same feeling based on the utter lack of extra info from Tesla. Fearing that we soon have a new term called "several Tesla months" just as we have a couple of Tesla weeks today:biggrin:
Brett
Member
Looks like Audi has made some more progress. I Rode 500 Miles in a Self-Driving Car and Saw the Future. Its Delightfully Dull | WIRED
I Rode 500 Miles in a Self-Driving Car and Saw the Future. Its Delightfully Dull | WIRED
"It’s top-end stuff, too: six radars, three cameras, and two light detection and ranging (LIDAR) units."
Tesla has no LIDAR and one radar. Yet this AUDI is only highway autonomous. I believe Tesla has over promised BIG time. Tesla doesn't have proper hardware for highway autopilot
"It’s top-end stuff, too: six radars, three cameras, and two light detection and ranging (LIDAR) units."
Tesla has no LIDAR and one radar. Yet this AUDI is only highway autonomous. I believe Tesla has over promised BIG time. Tesla doesn't have proper hardware for highway autopilot
That's going to depend on the feature set Tesla introduces vs. what people chose to hear and interpreted as promises.
The Audi system is certainly more capable with fully automated lane changing for passing and moving out of the way for faster vehicles to allow them to pass.
I'd be happy with full stop/start capable adaptive cruise, and automated cruise speed change based on posted speed limit signs (+/- offset) on my Model S.
I'm not sure I'd trust a system, even one with as many sensors as Audi is using, to keep me in my lane at highway speeds on 99% of the roads out there.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The Audi car is an autonomous driving car development model which "might be available in 3-5 years". Autonomous driving is much more difficult than the Autopilot which Tesla has promised. Tesla's Autopilot includes lane following and lane change, adaptive cruise control and speed limit detection and setting. Autopilot will work fine with existing Tesla hardware.
Autonomous driving is many years away and will require much more hardware such as that in the Audi.
Even with all of the Audi hardware, the test drive only worked on the freeway (not entrance or exit) and didn't really do anything more than the Tesla Autopilot.
The test ride I took in the Tesla Autopilot car demonstrated all of these features and could have done the same route as the Audi without touching the steering wheel. Hopefully Audi, Google, Tesla and others will develop the autonomous driving further but what Audi has just demonstrated is nothing more than the capability of the Tesla Autopilot (coming with a software upgrade "real soon now").
basf_audio
Member
After reading some of the news reports about the 2015 TLX (not mentioned much here on the forums based on a few searches...) - it looks like they're promising a lot of the same functionality that Tesla's Autopilot seems to be promising. But they're shipping cars with this enabled - right? And I've seen a few videos on YouTube where the reviewers are taking the cars out themselves - not a ride-along.
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7879-en
Seems like it's not a regulatory hold up... Just a testing and deployment hold up.
(I'm also one that traded in a 1 month old P85 that missed Auto-pilot features by a few days for a new P85D with said features. I'm happily waiting for Tesla to get it right - but I'm ready to start enjoying the benefits of my "upgrade").
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7879-en
Seems like it's not a regulatory hold up... Just a testing and deployment hold up.
(I'm also one that traded in a 1 month old P85 that missed Auto-pilot features by a few days for a new P85D with said features. I'm happily waiting for Tesla to get it right - but I'm ready to start enjoying the benefits of my "upgrade").
This is exatly my point. If Audi needs six radars, three cameras, and two LIDARs to get the functionality Tesla has promised, why Tesla doesn't?
I'm afraid people are expecting way too much. There will only be ACC, blind spot detection and lane departure warning. Of course those are nice features, but not "autopilot".
Edit: I believe this features might be possible with current hardware:
Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) with Low-Speed Follow (LSF)Collision Mitigation Braking System™ (CMBS)
Forward Collision Warning (FCW)
Lane Departure Warning (LDW)
Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS)
Road Departure Mitigation (RDM)
Blind Spot Information (BSI)
Multi-View Rear Camera with Dynamic Guidelines
Rear Cross Traffic Monitor
Those are Honda Acure TLX features.
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7879-en
If you want to call this autopilot, I guess you can. Honda does not.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
Tesla has defined "Autopilot" as ACC, blind spot detection, lane following, lane changing, speed limit detection and management. The current hardware on the Tesla is capable of performing these functions and has been demonstrated. Your definition of autopilot may be different.
The Audi may be capable of more with their additional hardware but this was not demonstrated in the test drive.
Yes. I guess this boils down to what we understand by autopilot. Elon said that 90% of highway miles would be on autopilot. http://money.cnn.com/video/technolo...0-autonomous.cnnmoney/index.html?iid=HP_River
Ps. lane changing with ultrasound sensors only is quite impossible on highway speed. Teslas ultrasonic sensors only see 16 feet (source: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot). It is absolutely too short distance regarding traffic coming from behind at higher speed.
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Yes, the basis of Tesla's autopilot definition is that rather than controlling the car, you tell it what to do. On the road this really boils down to you telling the car:
- what speed to drive
- when to change lanes and which direction to change lanes in.
The car will then execute the necessary maneuvers.
The hardware provided will also allow limited, low-speed autonomy, since the car has sensors that would allow safe slow movement: with its 1-car-length cocoon it could comfortably roll along at 1 mph (14 to 15 ft per second) and avoid collisions.
This is somewhat analogous to airplanes, where autopilot will maintain steady course and, with appropriate hardware on the plane and on the ground, land the plane; but when the airplane senses a dangerous condition it will pass control to the pilot, not make the maneuver itself.
It sounds like Audi's hardware would be able to do a bit more than Tesla intends: provide cooperative adaptive cruise control and maybe change lanes without driver input.
I wouldn't expect much from Tesla soon. The two features Tesla put in on release are low-hanging fruit, since they don't need a high rate of accuracy. The other stuff would need more testing to ensure it has an extremely high rate of accuracy and I expect that the priority is on ACC and crash prevention.
If/when Tesla tries to do highway autonomy, it will require more or different hardware. But I'm certain that Tesla made a conscious decision to limit the hardware to that required for autopilot, because autonomy would be several more years away, and hardware chosen now could easily become obsolete by the time autonomy is available.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Here's a good description from Tesla itself of Autopilot:
Dual Motor Model S and Autopilot | Blog | Tesla Motors
Lane change is initiated by the driver (tapping the turn signal) and not automatically by the car. This eliminates the need for long distance rear sensors. The driver will still need to check the rear view mirrors for oncoming high speed traffic before initiating a lane change... much safer (and easier technically).
I feel like a lot of people are faulting Tesla for things that Tesla themselves never claimed to be able to do. The hardware in the car is sufficient for what they've announced:
Driver assistance and (very) low speed (really, self-parking) autonomy in limited circumstances (driveways, parking lots, cul-de-sacs). Look, they've even gone out of their way to call it "auto-pilot" and compare it to simple aircraft auto-pilot. Nowhere do they say "self-driving car".
Driver assistance and (very) low speed (really, self-parking) autonomy in limited circumstances (driveways, parking lots, cul-de-sacs). Look, they've even gone out of their way to call it "auto-pilot" and compare it to simple aircraft auto-pilot. Nowhere do they say "self-driving car".
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