Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[Uncle Paul]

All this will become irrelevant when capacitors are installed on racing cars.

Brakes will be little used, since regenerative braking can be ramped up to almost infinity. Such strong regen will have that energy instantly placed into the capacitors and that stored power will instantly become available to accelerate out of the next corner, or to add short periods of blazing top speed on tracks like the ring.

Most production EVs have not yet been optimized for track use. Tesla has been the fastest so far for mass produced cars, but it also has technology available that could make their cars much more track capable.

Porsche has no idea who they are messing with.

Remember Maxwell...

 

[wenkan]

From Misha the guy who instructed a lap of the ring with his eye shaded:

 

[Todd Burch]

Driving around town, absolutely. At track speeds the max ~50kw regen the S/X allows isn’t nearly enough to scrub velocity quickly.

Taycan weighs more. And increasing regen on the S is merely a software change, I believe.

 

[ucmndd]

[

Taycan weighs more. And increasing regen on the S is merely a software change, I believe.

5 times heavier? The Taycan can regenerate at >250kw.

 

[Todd Burch]

5 times heavier? The Taycan can regenerate at >250kw.

??

There is absolutely no reason the S can’t regen far more than 50kw. I think tesla uses ~50kW as an intentional design decision for driver comfort and battery longevity reasons. A track mode could easily increase this.

Weight is not a limiting factor. Regen is simply running the motors in reverse. If the motors can generate 250kW, you can regen 250kW.

And regen at that power level doesn’t last long so the battery should be able to handle it.

 

[seattlite2004]

So...the Taycan made Elon propose/do this?

Gotta love competition!

 

[PhantomX]

Randy Pobst to the rescue!?

No, I don't think Randy has enough seat time at the Ring. The best person for the job, outside of factory drivers, is either Sabine Schmidt or Christian Gedhardt.

 

[MXWing]

Those who understand FEA would know you don't have to actually put the Raven S on the track to know how well it would do.

Nuclear weapons are still being developed without exploding very many of them.

 

[pgkevet]

...next week?...is that before or after christmas?

 

[ICUDoc]

I have to say-
I don't know that Elon has to do this- if he wins, it will be amazing, but I want Porsche to sell lots of cars, so I would have mixed feelings.
I can't believe the S would win without brakes and tyres and cooling upgrades- but maybe they are all production-ready?
I think losing by a BIG margin would be embarrassing so I presume Musk has an idea what the S can do?
Most importantly: the unknowns in all of this (and the potential answers to those questions) make this THE MOST EXCITING TESLA MOVE since the Model 3 was announced. Wow. Can't wait.

 

[PhantomX]

Those who understand FEA would know you don't have to actually put the Raven S on the track to know how well it would do.

Nuclear weapons are still being developed without exploding very many of them.

I do finite element analysis for living. As much as I would love to say it's the best things since the slice bread, it's still a numerical analysis with lots of assumptions and idealizations. BTW, I don't think using FEA is necessary the right method for a kinematic analysis such as this. FEA can extract out the dynamic behaviors of the chassis and its suspension kinematic (probably in modal domain), but the driving simulation itself will not be finite element analysis. It's solving equations of motion coupling the response of the car, the control laws (driver + drivetrain + braking + active suspension), track surface, etc.

The sim will get you a good setup to start, but ultimately actual track testing is required to fine tune the suspension and car behavior. Because no computer model can represent the full fidelity of a track surface, especially one as big as Nurburgring.

 

[gowthamn]

It's unlikely the current Model S can beat the Taycan. It cannot slowdown fast enough and turn at high speeds.
I think this is an introduction of a new model.

 

[ICUDoc]

It's unlikely the current Model S can beat the Taycan. It cannot slowdown fast enough and turn at high speeds.
I think this is an introduction of a new model.

WOWOWOWOWOWW. This will be amazing.

 

[Fossil Fool]

Race on Sunday, sell on Monday.

 

[MXWing]

I do finite element analysis for living. As much as I would love to say it's the best things since the slice bread, it's still a numerical analysis with lots of assumptions and idealizations. BTW, I don't think using FEA is necessary the right method for a kinematic analysis such as this. FEA can extract out the dynamic behaviors of the chassis and its suspension kinematic (probably in modal domain), but the driving simulation itself will not be finite element analysis. It's solving equations of motion coupling the response of the car, the control laws (driver + drivetrain + braking + active suspension), track surface, etc.

The sim will get you a good setup to start, but ultimately actual track testing is required to fine tune the suspension and car behavior. Because no computer model can represent the full fidelity of a track surface, especially one as big as Nurburgring.

Abaqus and Ansys says you are wrong and anything can be solved by them.

I agree there’s a human element that add a lot of variability and it’s hubris to claim computers will get it all.

But you can trust FEA to stick a stent in your valves so your blood keeps circulating.

Though computers will have to get it all eventually if FSD is to be achieved.

I sure do hope Musk knows something. It doesn’t have to beat the Taycan on the track to be the superior car.

It’s a wild ass guess (not really) that car owners spend more time going to Costco than Nurburgring.

Unnecessary PR fail if it falls flat.

You should be sure if you are racing for pink slips.

 

[PhantomX]

I agree with you. I think it's more worthwhile to chase after the title of best luxury car (i.e. beat S-class or 7-series in luxurious stuff) rather than going after Nurburgring time. The former is way cheaper to get and likely to generate a ton more sales for Tesla.

BTW, if you know how to use Abaqus or Ansys to run 6-DOF time domain simulation with flexible body, I would like to pick your brain!

 

[MXWing]

It's unlikely the current Model S can beat the Taycan. It cannot slowdown fast enough and turn at high speeds.
I think this is an introduction of a new model.

Elon is full of self confidence even if wrong. He thinks the Taycan is worse than a 2014 Model S or something.

Elon can’t even beat Flo, the progressive lady or a talking Gecko when it comes to insurance.

We shall see.
*cautiously optimistic*

 

[Sean Wagner]

I would have preferred the Model 3 to get a SpaceX thruster kit and duke it out with the Taycan on the 'ring, as the Tesla is more of a true Porsch-E than the original, given its substantially lower weight. But looking forward to the event!

 

[wenkan]

I would have preferred the Model 3 to get a SpaceX thruster kit and duke it out with the Taycan on the 'ring, as the Tesla is more of a true Porsch-E than the original, given its substantially lower weight. But looking forward to the event!

If they have it, I will buy it.

 

[Fossil Fool]

When Tesla beats Porsche next week it will boost interest in the market segment focused on performance and style dominated by the Germans. Few owners of Porsche or Tesla will ever drive on a race track, but isn't cool at the water cooler to tell your buds how a Tesla just like yours beat the lederhosen off a Porsche (costing twice as much) at their home track?

The "win" will sell Teslas and it will continue to shift the brand from a perception of a nerdy iPhone with wheels to a serious performance machine. The brand promise of Tesla needs to evolve or the company will die. Potential car buyers who can afford a Tesla need to learn of the benefits of a Tesla compared to all the other car makers such as Audi, Porsche and others releasing E-cars.

Tesla needs the pickup (and other models) to make it a serious car company with those folks who want a cooler F150 and are willing to pay the big bucks. Tesla needs to seen as Ford or Chevy or apple pie. Car buyers need to be in an emotional turmoil when it comes to their next car purchase: trying to find reasons not to buy a Tesla.

I spent 35 years developing successful brands and I applaud Tesla for being bold and grabbing headlines anyway they can to show they are where the technology is heading, even if it involves something as frivolous as auto racing.