Model 3 - range

[Yev000]

My normal drive is 70 miles a day and the Tesla is ideal. For the longer journey (about one a fortnight) I’ll be in a less efficient (mpg wise) ICE but expect to save about 5 hours of my own time.

Getting home at 9pm as opposed to 2am makes a massive difference

That is some kind of inventive thinking there. It will not take you 5 hours more

Here is a trip from Southampton to Scotland in 5 C with an SR+

A Better Routeplanner

That's 1 hour 15 min at superchargers. Nowhere near the 5 hours you are imagining. In an ICE you would definitely stop at least once, unless you can go 7 hours without a pee break and your car can do 580 miles on one tank in the winter. Here you are stopping 6 times for ~15 min every hour or so.

Change that to the LR and you are looking at 3 stops every ~2 hours and a time saving of ~30 min.

So you definitely wont be seeing a 5 hour difference between ICE and ~300 mile range EV, especially a Tesla. 1-2 hours, sure, not 5.

 

[davidmc]

Further to my weird loss in range during a certain update @5_+JqckQttqck kindly commented to my post, people have suspected that SR+ lost around 3kw, but not confirmed or announced by Tesla (link to post below)

Range degradation-Model 3LR charges to only 312 miles

I think Tesla used 2019.32.2.1 software to downgrade the battery by 3kw over this period of time during this SW update

Software engineer - "Do it over time and no one will know, do it over night and people will scream!"

And my data does work out to be 3kw!

 

[MrBadger]

The problem with supercharger network in UK as whilst they are OK for serving most of the length of the country, they are not so good at serving the breadth of the country. Whilst many locations are in range of a super charger, they are often a huge detour and often minimal net gain in charge.

If living off a supercharger, which would not be unusual for staying away from home, by time you have spent 20-30% round tripping a super charger, and living within 10-90%, you don't have much left for BAU. Destination charging adds some flexibility, but not always an option and local charging is either slow or cannot be relied on. Add in that even the shortest of trips takes 5-10%, and juggling sentry or parking up blind, then its not long after getting back from a trip to a charger than you are planning the next charge trip.

If you cannot hook up overnight, then range and efficiency is super critical. Not an easy sell to the masses if its not going to be as convenient as they are use to.

 

[Derek25]

Further to my weird loss in range during a certain update @5_+JqckQttqck kindly commented to my post, people have suspected that SR+ lost around 3kw, but not confirmed or announced by Tesla (link to post below)

Range degradation-Model 3LR charges to only 312 miles

I think Tesla used 2019.32.2.1 software to downgrade the battery by 3kw over this period of time during this SW update

Software engineer - "Do it over time and no one will know, do it over night and people will scream!"

And my data does work out to be 3kw!

I didn’t see that in my SR+ after the 2019.32.2.1 update, which I had around the same time as you.

 

[Archerfield]

I agree with @Big Earl. Those who have serious winter weather (E.g. Nirway, Canada) and many EV drivers are well accustomed to the vagaries of cold, moisture, and hills/mountains, not to mention prevailing winds. People who are aircraft pilots usually know how to adjust for those factors. Other people, not so much.

After five years of Tesla driving under widely varying conditions it has become second nature for me. Decades as an airplane pilot made me automatically check weather (temperatures, winds, precipitation). Unlike flying nobody really prepares Tesla drivers to understand these things. Everyone goes through a learning curve. While considering this post, my spouse reminded me that my first year Tesla driving and first year piloting were irritating similar. She said I had “...a constant panic about running out of fuel and locating the nearest fuel...”

As a long-time all season U.K. commuter (Bayswater-Northampton for me) I think the only real solution for wet/winter is three things:
First: full charge prior to departure, including cabin heating/cooling prior to disconnection. Second, stop for a top up charge.using a coffee, phone calls and/or bio break as an excuse. Motorway charging is now convenient so that really is easier than it sounds. Third, after the first two you can drive just as if it were an ICE, but have more fun doing it.

After my five years I find those things make long drives easier than they were when I formerly did not stop. Following a >400 mile

That is some kind of inventive thinking there. It will not take you 5 hours more

Here is a trip from Southampton to Scotland in 5 C with an SR+

A Better Routeplanner

That's 1 hour 15 min at superchargers. Nowhere near the 5 hours you are imagining. In an ICE you would definitely stop at least once, unless you can go 7 hours without a pee break and your car can do 580 miles on one tank in the winter. Here you are stopping 6 times for ~15 min every hour or so.

Change that to the LR and you are looking at 3 stops every ~2 hours and a time saving of ~30 min.

So you definitely wont be seeing a 5 hour difference between ICE and ~300 mile range EV, especially a Tesla. 1-2 hours, sure, not 5.

That is some kind of inventive thinking there. It will not take you 5 hours more

Here is a trip from Southampton to Scotland in 5 C with an SR+

A Better Routeplanner

That's 1 hour 15 min at superchargers. Nowhere near the 5 hours you are imagining. In an ICE you would definitely stop at least once, unless you can go 7 hours without a pee break and your car can do 580 miles on one tank in the winter. Here you are stopping 6 times for ~15 min every hour or so.

Change that to the LR and you are looking at 3 stops every ~2 hours and a time saving of ~30 min.

So you definitely wont be seeing a 5 hour difference between ICE and ~300 mile range EV, especially a Tesla. 1-2 hours, sure, not 5.

Cheers buddy but I was home last night at 2am. I wish I had been exaggerating but just for your benefit I can give you the full details of my trip.

Left North Berwick with a full battery at 6:30 am. Arrived Glasgow 8:30 for my first meeting.

Left Glasgow at 10:15 to drive to Derby. Stopped at Gretna but the charger was very slow given there was already cars on charge there. Added 30 miles and decided to head to Tebay.

Tebay got 30 minutes charge and set off South.

With the meeting in Derby taking place at 4pm I thought I could call in at Keele to get enough charge to get me to Derby and then on to Woodall. All the stalls were full at Keele and with a 4pm meeting I needed to set off without charge. Made it to Derby but only had 20 miles of charge.

I couldn't make it to Woodall and had to use a Pod point at Halfords. 2 hours to get 40 miles to get me to Woodall.

I charged at Woodall and then Scotch Corner and had to drive relatively slowly getting home at 2.

My issues are the real life experience of someone who wants to use an EV but has practical issues on longer trips.

 

[gangzoom]

Cheers buddy but I was home last night at 2am.

This is exactly one of the reasons why we cancelled our Model 3 order and our Lexus hybrid isn't going anywhere fast.

There are some EVlangists who pretend to themselves stopping in winter is great fun, and their Tesla can do 300 miles in all conditions, the only people they are fooling is themselves.

 

[Fraank]

Cheers buddy but I was home last night at 2am. I wish I had been exaggerating but just for your benefit I can give you the full details of my trip.

I've had similar experiences, but I definitely am putting them in the "still learning" category.

If you put that route into ABRP how does it look? Planning is everything right now, until a future time when charging infrastructure is as prevalent as fuel stations.

Even if the chargers are full, slow charging for 20mins (or whatever) until your charging buddy leaves is likely going to save you time overall.

I'm stopping more often with the Tesla, but I'm definitely improving in my planning. I just wish I could charge at any services, so planning is not needed and it's a "oh, 20%? I'll stop at next services". Considering how much faster you charge from 10%, that again requires more planning.

As others have said, the trade offs are hopefully worth it to us all right now. As time goes by, infrastructure will increase, and planning reduce.

One day, it will be the guy in his "classic" petrol vehicle, struggling to plan on where to fill up. Ok, that's a long way away, but point is we're still early adopters and that means some small compromises along the way (and a ton of benefits in return).

 

[Roy W.]

I couldn't make it to Woodall and had to use a Pod point at Halfords. 2 hours to get 40 miles to get me to Woodall.

There are several 50kW options in and around Derby that you could have used. There’s even one at the pub where you turn into the Halfords retail park!

 

[Archerfield]

There are several 50kW options in and around Derby that you could have used. There’s even one at the pub where you turn into the Halfords retail park!

I really wish I’d known that last night!!!!!

 

[Jason71]

I really wish I’d known that last night!!!!!

Have you got Zapmap? if not I recommend it.

 

[Big Earl]

I really wish I’d known that last night!!!!!

www.plugshare.com is a great resource for finding EV chargers. They have a phone app, as well. Cheers!

Note that Teslas require a $500 adapter in order to use CHAdeMO stations.

 

[Roy W.]

I really wish I’d known that last night!!!!!

Yes, ZapMap and PlugShare are both essential apps for your phone. Invaluable for finding non-Tesla chargers!

 

[Daverh]

I really wish I’d known that last night!!!!!

There's also a newly installed Ionity charger at Gretna

IONITY opens high power charging station in Gretna Green | GreenFleet

 

[Roy W.]

There are several 50kW options in and around Derby that you could have used. There’s even one at the pub where you turn into the Halfords retail park!

I’m not quite sure what’s to disagree with here @gangzoom, it’s a simple fact. If you take a look on ZapMap you’ll see at least seven 50kW chargers in and around Derby...

 

[WannabeOwner]

There are several 50kW options in and around Derby that you could have used.

I really wish I’d known that last night!!!!!

Although ... using 3rd party chargers may require having the right APP pre-installed on your phone (or downloading it when you get there ... if there is signal enough to do so) ... and so on. Plenty of providers out to try to stitch you up to take out a monthly Sub - which you are very unlikely to need as a Tesla driver, particularly if you have home-charging.

I agree about having BOTH ZapMap and PlugShare. Probably either will tell you where the nearest charge points are, but people who visit them are only likely to post a comment on one, or other, and seeing a recent "Not working" comment is obviously helpful.

Note that Teslas require a $500 adaptor in order to use CHAdeMO stations.

This is UK forum. All current cars have CCS.

 

[Artiste]

This is exactly one of the reasons why we cancelled our Model 3 order and our Lexus hybrid isn't going anywhere fast.

There are some EVlangists who pretend to themselves stopping in winter is great fun, and their Tesla can do 300 miles in all conditions, the only people they are fooling is themselves.

Im certainly not one of them. I’m off to York today, which is a 200 mile round trip. I charged to 100% last night and the Stats app suggests I have 186 mile range. I never stop off going there or coming back but looks like I’ve got no choice today. Very disappointing. I’m actually thinking of going in my A6, which I haven’t got round to selling yet.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Be interesting to hear how you get on (what model?)

That's exactly my sort of edge condition ... bit tight on range but also: stop at destination, battery gets cold (in winter), set off penalty for the return, and also quite possibly some "running around" when you get there (i.e. in York)

Flip side is that traffic / road works usually reduces my average speed and I gain some range (compared to Optimum Plan)

When my Wife takes the car to York she seems to need to stop at the Designer Outlet for an hour ... most expensive charging on the planet

 

[interbear]

I’ve also found that range declines significantly in cold / wet weather. I’d say about a third, on average. I was expecting this to a degree but didn’t think it would have such a major impact. Still, I’ve bought into the planet friendly benefits of EV driving so I’ll find a way to manage it. For 90% of my daily driving it won’t be an issue at all, but road trips from South Wales up to Scotland will require a bit of planning, as I had expected anyway as home to Glasgow is a 370 mile trip. I’ve been mightily impressed by how quickly the Tesla superchargers charge my Model 3 though and stopping for 30-45 minutes for a coffee and bio-break is something I’d usually do once en route anyway in my previous ICE cars, if I have to do it twice I can live with that. Probably my biggest challenge will be when visiting family in more rural areas of the Borders where there are no Superchargers unless I detour to Gretna.

I see people mention “preconditioning” the car before setting off on a road trip. What exactly does this entail? How does the battery get preconditioned before a long journey?

 

[WannabeOwner]

I’d say about a third, on average.

On a long journey?

Just want folk to beware that it is unreliable extrapolating Short Journey consumption for a Long Journey in an EV. Set off energy penalty makes a significant difference, which averaged over long journey is much less significant.

My whole-of-February averages for wH/mile are terrible, but my February long journeys are only 10% worse than Summer.

I see people mention “preconditioning” the car before setting off on a road trip. What exactly does this entail? How does the battery get preconditioned before a long journey?

It would be nice if you could do the equivalent of "Navigate to Supercharger" to pre-condition the car. I don't know of any obvious setting available, so on that basis my routine is:

Charge the battery the "last 10%" for an hour before departure. If I am needing 100% then I charge to 90% (e.g. overnight) and then charge to 100% for the hour before I leave (adjust for however long you find 90% to 100% takes in practice). For normal commute days I set limit to 80% at the start of Off Peak, and then change limit to 90%, and re-start charging, an hour before my normal departure time.

This will heat the battery somewhat, but it won't enable full regen (if you charge to 100% you won't have full regen, but even if I charge from 80% to 90% for an hour before departure, in Winter, I have never got full regen ... the Battery heater does come on for a bit, but not for the whole hour, so Tesla could provide a "Going on a long trip" pre-conditioning option that did a better job)

Then I warm the cabin for 15 minutes before departure. That heats the "fabric" of the cabin, and also nice to have a warm car to get into, plus that will also defrost the windscreen etc

(All that on "Shore Power" so that the battery doesn't have to do that when I set off [in cold weather])

I found that Range Mode made a bit of different on the Performance Model-S (puts the Big Motor into idle when cruising at 70 MPH), but I have read reports that it wasn't a worthwhile difference on other models. Don't know about the Model-3 but if worthwhile that might help too.

 

[interbear]

On a long journey?

Just want folk to beware that it is unreliable extrapolating Short Journey consumption for a Long Journey in an EV. Set off energy penalty makes a significant difference, which averaged over long journey is much less significant.

My whole-of-February averages for wH/mile are terrible, but my February long journeys are only 10% worse than Summer.



It would be nice if you could do the equivalent of "Navigate to Supercharger" to pre-condition the car. I don't know of any obvious setting available, so on that basis my routine is:

Charge the battery the "last 10%" for an hour before departure. If I am needing 100% then I charge to 90% (e.g. overnight) and then charge to 100% for the hour before I leave (adjust for however long you find 90% to 100% takes in practice). For normal commute days I set limit to 80% at the start of Off Peak, and then change limit to 90%, and re-start charging, an hour before my normal departure time.

This will heat the battery somewhat, but it won't enable full regen (if you charge to 100% you won't have full regen, but even if I charge from 80% to 90% for an hour before departure, in Winter, I have never got full regen ... the Battery heater does come on for a bit, but not for the whole hour, so Tesla could provide a "Going on a long trip" pre-conditioning option that did a better job)

Then I warm the cabin for 15 minutes before departure. That heats the "fabric" of the cabin, and also nice to have a warm car to get into, plus that will also defrost the windscreen etc

(All that on "Shore Power" so that the battery doesn't have to do that when I set off [in cold weather])

I found that Range Mode made a bit of different on the Performance Model-S (puts the Big Motor into idle when cruising at 70 MPH), but I have read reports that it wasn't a worthwhile difference on other models. Don't know about the Model-3 but if worthwhile that might help too.

Interesting, thanks. I’ve noted the range reduction on short and long journeys. Gatwick back to South Wales, for example, on a horrendous wet Friday night saw my range drop quite dramatically. I had to charge at Membury, which I didn’t expect to when I set off, although as a new Tesla owner I am probably still in “range anxiety” mode so tend to think a charge is necessary whenever I see the range drop anywhere below 40% I’m still learning about how the weather conditions and my driving style impacts range, all part of the EV experience.

Would be good if the Tesla allowed scheduled charging not as a “start charging” time but as an “end charging” time ie. if you want to set off on a journey at 8am, the car charges until 8am so therefore preconditions for the journey but without any manual intervention. I suppose I could do that with my Andersen charger app as it allows me to set start and end time for charging.