Model 3 - range

[interbear]

That is some kind of inventive thinking there. It will not take you 5 hours more

Here is a trip from Southampton to Scotland in 5 C with an SR+

A Better Routeplanner

That's 1 hour 15 min at superchargers. Nowhere near the 5 hours you are imagining. In an ICE you would definitely stop at least once, unless you can go 7 hours without a pee break and your car can do 580 miles on one tank in the winter. Here you are stopping 6 times for ~15 min every hour or so.

Change that to the LR and you are looking at 3 stops every ~2 hours and a time saving of ~30 min.

So you definitely wont be seeing a 5 hour difference between ICE and ~300 mile range EV, especially a Tesla. 1-2 hours, sure, not 5.

I hadn’t come across that route planner website before. It looks excellent.

Can you run it on the in-car browser when on a journey?

 

[WannabeOwner]

on a horrendous wet

Ah ... I should have mentioned that. Wet is bad, torrential rain is REALLY bad. Even in mid summer ... a massive Summer thunderstorm covering most of a long journey that I made is the one and only time I didn't think I would make destination, even though I dropped to 50 MPH as soon as consumption was suggesting a problem ...

Since then I have always charged to 100% if my journey is more than 70% of max range, just for a bit more contingency.

Would be good if the Tesla allowed scheduled charging not as a “start charging” time but as an “end charging” time

That's in the latest update

TeslaFi (and other such 3rd party apps) have a scheduler that allows you to do that sort of stuff too - including setting up cabin heating for 15 minutes before departure and so on.

Let me know if you want a referral for TeslaFi, it increased the Trial from 2 weeks to a month.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Can you run it on the in-car browser when on a journey?

I've never done so, but it has that option (and also the ability to do some extra data processing in that mode, similar to the Energy : TRIP option on the car's screen) also option to feed data back to the Programmer to make improvements)

There are some interesting graphs of charging time [for the whole fleet reporting data back] for various battery versions (on the ABRP Blog)

 

[interbear]

That's in the latest update

TeslaFi (and other such 3rd party apps) have a scheduler that allows you to do that sort of stuff too - including setting up cabin heating for 15 minutes before departure and so on.

Let me know if you want a referral for TeslaFi, it increased the Trial from 2 weeks to a month.

I should clearly pay more attention to the update release notes

Thanks re Teslafi but I think that’s a bit data heavy for my needs, I don’t think I’d get value from the subscription. I was looking at the Tesla Stats app too. Not even sure I need that.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I think that’s a bit data heavy for my needs,

Definitely at the Geeky end of the spectrum ...

 

[Adopado]

I hadn’t come across that route planner website before. It looks excellent.

Yes AbetterRouteplanner is "the" essential tool for all EV users ...

 

[elecTED]

Would it be fair to say that in non-optimal conditions (cold/wet/windy weather, car fully loaded with passengers and luggage) and not driving like a granny/grandad, the extra real-world miles is likely to be 50 or so miles from a LR compared to a SR+?

The extra 50 or so miles would be very helpful in many longer journeys but comes at a very high premium.

 

[Artiste]

I should clearly pay more attention to the update release notes

Thanks re Teslafi but I think that’s a bit data heavy for my needs, I don’t think I’d get value from the subscription. I was looking at the Tesla Stats app too. Not even sure I need that.

Stats does everything I need and more. And I like the fact that it’s a one off payment rather than an ongoing subscription.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The extra 50 or so miles would be very helpful in many longer journeys

here's what ABRP says for London to Edinburgh

20C no headwind etc.

M3 SR+ : 266 Wh/mi 400 miles 06:51 driving, 00:33 charging (Stoke on Trent 00:06 10%-38%, Charnock Richard 0:17 10%-72%, Gretna Green 0:09 10%-51%)

M3 LR 18" Aero : 283 Wh/mi, 399 miles (West coast route). 6:36 driving, 00:26 charging (Charnock Richard N. 16% - 85%)

MS LR Raven : 310 Wh/mi 403 miles (east coast route) 06:32 driving, 00:21 charging (Scotch Corner 18%-62%)
MS LR Raven : 312 Wh/mi 399 miles (West coast route) 06:36 driving, 00:22 charging (Charnock Richard 29%-73%)

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining

M3 SR+ :330 Wh/mi 401 miles 07:00 driving, 00:57 charging (Northampton 0:09 56%-77%, Stoke on Trent 00:08 10%-45%, Charnock Richard 0:27 10%-87%, Gretna Green 0:12 10%-61%)

M3 LR 18" Aero : 342 Wh/mi, 400 miles 06:44 driving, 00:37 charging. Stoke on Trent 00:25 23%-84% and Gretna Green 0:12 5%-46%

MS LR Raven : 373 Wh/mi 400 miles (West coast route) 06:45 driving, 00:30 charging (Charnock Richard 00:17, 15%-54%, Gretna Green 0:13 10%-41%)

In practice I would charge to 80% at each stop in case traffic/roadworks enabled me to skip a stop, or take a further Supercharger (except the last one before destination where I would charge "enough to arrive safely" or, if no destination charging, enough for "running around and next leg")

 

[WannabeOwner]

Stats does everything I need and more. And I like the fact that it’s a one off payment rather than an ongoing subscription.

TeslaFi has had plenty of on-going development over the 3 years I've been using it, and has been quick to react to changes etc. But history no indicator of future ...

In the early days I also used TeslaLog, and DEV stopped on that suddenly so my SUB was wasted ...

 

[WannabeOwner]

Sorry ... didn't answer the actual question

By my calculations, scaling up a long-leg journey in ABRP, then I reckon you are looking at 60 (Winter) to 70 (Summer) miles difference in range SR+ to LR, and 50 more for the Raven MS.

M3 SR+:

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining = 143 miles
20C, no headwind, dry = 176 miles

M3 LR 18" Aero :

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining = 204 miles
20C, no headwind, dry = 249 miles

MS LR Raven:

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining = 246 miles
20C, no headwind, dry = 293 miles

 

[elecTED]

Sorry ... didn't answer the actual question

By my calculations, scaling up a long-leg journey in ABRP, then I reckon you are looking at 60 (Winter) to 70 (Summer) miles difference in range SR+ to LR, and 50 more for the Raven MS.

M3 SR+:

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining = 143 miles
20C, no headwind, dry = 176 miles

M3 LR 18" Aero :

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining = 204 miles
20C, no headwind, dry = 249 miles

MS LR Raven:

5C, 5MPH headwind, raining = 246 miles
20C, no headwind, dry = 293 miles

Thanks for the maths!

Broadly in line with my finger in air guesstimates.

 

[Archerfield]

Have you got Zapmap? if not I recommend it.

I have now, learning on the job and grateful for all the great advice!

 

[JohnSnowNW]

This is exactly one of the reasons why we cancelled our Model 3 order and our Lexus hybrid isn't going anywhere fast.

There are some EVlangists who pretend to themselves stopping in winter is great fun, and their Tesla can do 300 miles in all conditions, the only people they are fooling is themselves.

Ahh, now I can see where your opinions are coming from.

Look, no one thinks it's fun to be forced to stop at shorter intervals than an ICEV, we just know that it isn't as onerous as people like you purport. I make 1300 mile round-trips in winter...in one of the colder areas of the US mainland, and do so with my entire family in the vehicle. Our trips (each way) have averaged only about 2 hrs longer than when we drove in our ICEV...and only because we have a hole in SC stations that requires a longer destination charger stop.

I am sorry that you feel the roughly ~20% longer travel time over 650 miles means that you're forced to drive a petrol vehicle, but not everyone has this hang up...and we're not ignoring that driving a BEV long distance comes with certain considerations in comparison to ICEV. It's just that we're tired of people making mountains from mole hills, and as such, tend to disregard personal opinion presented as fact.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Our trips (each way) have averaged only about 2 hrs longer than when we drove in our ICEV

I used to fill up ICE once a week (25K miles p.a.) ... here in UK that is stand-to-pump and then queue-in-line-to-pay (pay at pump is not common). For best price Gas then buy at Supermarket, and that frequently also requires "queue for pump" too ... realistically, including get off road, and get back onto road, 10 minutes each week. So that is 8 hours a year ...

I have home charging and I count that as zero time given that I walk past the car to get to front door, so its a matter of moments to plug in.

My Supercharge usage is 23 minutes average and a shade under twice a month in the 3.5 years I've had the car.

Guess what? Yup ... that's 8 hours a year Except that its plug-in-and-walk-away, so apart from, say, a minute to get out, plug in, get back in the car ... I am then getting on with work on a laptop or talking to clients ... and making money

And no stinking cold, wet, smelly petrol forecourts. But some damage to my waistline and wallet from Starbucks pastries ...

... and (Gas more expensive in UK than USA) EV saves me £4,000 per year compared to ICE

 

[Adopado]

And no stinking cold, wet, smelly petrol forecourts. But some damage to my waistline and wallet from Starbucks pastries ...

In the middle of the day the Shell garage in a nearby town just turns into a soup and sandwich shop! More than half the people aren't even buying fuel and you have to wait for ages while the cashier tots up all the lunch items ... god that used to get my goat!

 

[WannabeOwner]

god that used to get my goat

My local BP was the same ... it is permanently an M&S outpost, so no good time of the day to avoid slow checkouts ...

 

[Yev000]

Charge the battery the "last 10%" for an hour before departure.

Don't disagree, but kind of defeats the point if you set off at 100. You only really need to warm the battery if it's below freezing and/or you want max regen, which you won't benefit from at 100 anyway.

The extra 50 or so miles would be very helpful in many longer journeys but comes at a very high premium.

Don't disagree on the premium, it was too rich for my blood... However, you need to take account of another factor here in addition to the actual range;

Because the battery charges fastest within a certain range (i.e. 0 to 50%) an LR battery will be significantly faster at recharging than an SR battery at a supercharger. So if you frequently use the 0-50% range (i.e. 100+ mile trips) then you will spend a lot less time charging.

I don't do these trips often, so I equate the extra 9k as a very expensive way to save myself 5 hours a year.

 

[WannabeOwner]

kind of defeats the point if you set off at 100. You only really need to warm the battery if it's below freezing and/or you want max regen, which you won't benefit from at 100 anyway

I do it either way, as mentioned in my post on normal nights I drop 90% to 80% at start of Off Peak, and then change Limit back up to 90% an hour before departure (and resume charging).

For 100% charge I want to charge "just before departure" so do the same "last 10% an hour before departure" for that reason, but my guess (but it is only that) is that will heat the battery somewhat, and reduce the time I spend on "low regen" - which might be a combination of 100% charge and cold battery. Regen seems to take "ages" to become available on a 100% charge in Winter, compared to Summer, so (subjectively) I reckon cold battery comes into play too.

Also possible that quite a lot of variability has crept in between an old 2016 MS like I had, and a new, improved-design, Model-3

All may become moot with the new "Precondition for departure" dashboard option ..

9k as a very expensive way to save myself 5 hours a year

I'll assume 50% recovered on sale and owning the car for 4 years. 4 years * 5 hours p.a. = 20 hours saved.

£4,500 / 20 = £225 per hour. Looks better for people that would save more hours, of course.

Might be worse than 5 hours p.a. if you start finding all stalls occupied, or having to pair more often. I've upgraded to Raven (old car had got to high mileage) and the extra range fixes a couple of journeys which I used to take the ICE for. That extra range will change my Supercharging from 2 days a month, to 2 days a year, and I do wonder if will turn out to be a benefit if rollout of Model-3 numbers greater exceeds Supercharger capacity rollout

 

[Yev000]

I'll assume 50% recovered on sale and owning the car for 4 years. 4 years * 5 hours p.a. = 20 hours saved.

I like that creative accounting

Of course it might not actually "save" me those 5 hours, if I spend that long at services with 2 kids anyway.... It's pretty subjective, what we spend our time on. I mean I probably spent a good 40-50 hours this year on this forum already - and I wouldn't spend any money to have less of that... So maybe if I browse forums while spending time at the supercharger it wouldn't really be a waste?

A friend of mine, who I showed the car to, wrote it off in a simple demo to me. He put a pin in the middle of Ukraine and the car could not get there on the supercharger network, so he said "See - that's no use to me!". He does that trip maybe twice a year.

Well yeah if you do long trips, you can say "this is useless to me because - real life". Or you could spend a bit more time planning.