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Max Battery Power setting in P90DL
- Thread starter Robert.
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yes, the increased chemical reactivity that allows for more power also accelerates the rate of degradation. Thus if you are going to use the mode, it is best to limit the amount of time it is in the ready state.
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
I doubt that the increase will be significant, or measurable, I suspect that in a couple years the difference in degradation between frequent and infrequent ludicrous launchers will be below the noise threshold. As seems to be the case today with those who frequently charge to 100%.
lol. Just unlike in a Porsche, you have to wait a few minutes for it to engage, by which time your opponent is a blur in the distance
ArtInCT
Always Learning
lol. Just unlike in a Porsche, you have to wait a few minutes for it to engage, by which time your opponent is a blur in the distance
You have kind of just said what I was thinking about ever since reading about the MAX BATTERY POWER setting. It seems rather fiddly to me.
I mean really, if I am driving along with the MAP high and the Energy Curve low on the 17" display and then want to engage MAX BATTERY POWER....
Well, how many distracting display touches will it take to do that?
I suspect you cannot promote the MAX BATTERY POWER setting to the thumbwheels?
I am just on the fence with this and here in CT where we have very cold winter environment for 4+ months, what will the lag time be, after invoking MBP when we have 25 degrees F?
As it is now in the Northeast, most Model S suffer from NO REGEN when traction packs are cold soaked in below freezing temps (until the pack warms up).
Ahhh... sheet... Sadly, I just may drop the UNDERLINE from my P90D config...
ArtInCT, it really does sound like they had to really pull out the stops at all cost to hit the 2.9 figure. Even if just to say it's possible
I'd love to know if without this pre-heat Ludicrous the performance is the same as Insane. If so it seems a waste of time unless you only intend to use it on a sanctioned drag strip.
One thing is for certain, pack heating cripples my range. I do an 8 mile each way commute, and at 32f air temps the "warm up tax" is significant enough to halve my average Wh/mi figure overall.
I'm also intrigued what happens with regen with this on?
Overall though i'm truly struggling to see an upside here.
I'd love to know if without this pre-heat Ludicrous the performance is the same as Insane. If so it seems a waste of time unless you only intend to use it on a sanctioned drag strip.
One thing is for certain, pack heating cripples my range. I do an 8 mile each way commute, and at 32f air temps the "warm up tax" is significant enough to halve my average Wh/mi figure overall.
I'm also intrigued what happens with regen with this on?
Overall though i'm truly struggling to see an upside here.
jerjozwik
Active Member
you have issue that you might not be able to do a 2.8 sec 0-60 run in 25* weather? that does not seem very wise.
ArtInCT, it really does sound like they had to really pull out the stops at all cost to hit the 2.9 figure. Even if just to say it's possible
I'd love to know if without this pre-heat Ludicrous the performance is the same as Insane. If so it seems a waste of time unless you only intend to use it on a sanctioned drag strip.
One thing is for certain, pack heating cripples my range. I do an 8 mile each way commute, and at 32f air temps the "warm up tax" is significant enough to halve my average Wh/mi figure overall.
I'm also intrigued what happens with regen with this on?
Overall though i'm truly struggling to see an upside here.
launch pre-heat L-mode > I-mode. 30-60 is definitely better, and 60+ is also better. I'm taking sorka, who has talked a lot about P85D performance, for a ride this week. So hopefully he will share his opinion afterwards. I think he will most likely notice even the small differences since he has owned a P85D for a while.
I haven't paid a lot of attention regarding regen with the option on. I am doing another reaction video at 2pm so I can see then.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, and apologies if it comes across as me putting down your car, it's more a frustration with recent directions at Tesla as a whole!
I look forward to hearing Sorka's feedback. IF the L mode = requires pre-heat (with subsequent range issues) then it could be a deal breaker for some, and one more thing Tesla probably should put as a disclaimer on the order page.
Either way it's still no doubt a fantastic car, and I hope you enjoy it!
Didn't think you were putting it down.
Someone on TMC (owner shall remain nameless to avoid requests to borrow) is going to let me borrow a VBOX. So I will be able to show the performance of sport vs L-mode vs L-mode-heated.
Sorka asked me to use PowerTools to show the KW used, but I've had some issues logging in while other apps work. So I need to troubleshoot that and then I can post some information on the KW at max acceleration.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Just wondering what your logic is here, Art, specifically with respect to how regen is impacting your decision. If anything, from a cold-soaked regen standpoint I'd think you might view the heating as a positive, as you would have one additional way to heat the pack and get regen sooner when it's cold (at least until Tesla gives the rest of us some sort of pack pre-heating option.)
I'm probably just not thinking of something you are, which is why I'm asking.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
If you want the biggest change from L to L heated you might want to test in this order
1. L mode
2. sport mode
3. L mode heated
I don't think the temp difference matters to the numbers of the sport mode and if that is the case you'll want to test it in the middle.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Ahhh, I see.
So you believe (and I think I now do too) that Art was pointing out that because of the cold climate he lives in, the Ludicrous mode would not be as useful as he originally anticipated, since it requires pack heating to achieve, because the pack heating would take so long due to the cold.
Got it.
This is my exact feelings. What is Ludicrous without the battery prep like?
ArtInCT, it really does sound like they had to really pull out the stops at all cost to hit the 2.9 figure. Even if just to say it's possible
I'd love to know if without this pre-heat Ludicrous the performance is the same as Insane. If so it seems a waste of time unless you only intend to use it on a sanctioned drag strip.
One thing is for certain, pack heating cripples my range. I do an 8 mile each way commute, and at 32f air temps the "warm up tax" is significant enough to halve my average Wh/mi figure overall.
I'm also intrigued what happens with regen with this on?
Overall though i'm truly struggling to see an upside here.
OK Thinking about this a few more questions spring to mind.
So should (/can) this be left permanently on? (Did the DS give you any guidance, or notes in the manual)
Does it reset itself every time you start the car?
Can you tell from the dash when it's finished "preparing"?
Does the performance build up gradually? (Or is there a binary step when it's finished?)
So should (/can) this be left permanently on? (Did the DS give you any guidance, or notes in the manual)
Does it reset itself every time you start the car?
Can you tell from the dash when it's finished "preparing"?
Does the performance build up gradually? (Or is there a binary step when it's finished?)
No guidance from DS
It doesn't stay on and sometimes takes a while to turn on.
Not on the dash, but on the 17"
Not sure if it builds gradually. It is a good question though.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
Hi Andy:
Well let us say I am at the Gun Club on a cold winter's day. No shore power. The temps are 25 degrees and the battery and car become very cold soaked. Upon leaving, I have no regen and in that very cold situation with the pack and the air temps, I fear that MAX BATTERY POWER will take quite a long time to overcome the cold. And at what cost? Range? Battery longevity? Pack heating subsystem wear? Plus I will have to remember to turn it on. 3 to 4 touches on the 17" pad. Ehhh... My drive from the Rod & Gun Club is about 30 minutes.... Will I be able to use LUDICROUS mode in the first 10 minutes? 20 Minutes? Ever? In that Scenario? Dunno? I suspect that the MAX BATTERY POWER traction pack temperature may be HIGHER than the regeneration temps but am not sure.
Another Scenario... On the other hand, in the garage, when on shore power that MAX BATTERY POWER could be of benefit IF all the power were coming from the shore power and NOT from the battery pack to preheat the traction battery. Do you know if preheating uses 100% shore power or does it utilize traction pack battery power?
I am very much still on the fence with the P90D Ludy... may downgrade my config to simply a P90D Insane.
Now if I lived in a normally warm climate (you and I do not) like San Diego or Florida, then this concern is of no concern.
Well let us say I am at the Gun Club on a cold winter's day. No shore power. The temps are 25 degrees and the battery and car become very cold soaked. Upon leaving, I have no regen and in that very cold situation with the pack and the air temps, I fear that MAX BATTERY POWER will take quite a long time to overcome the cold. And at what cost? Range? Battery longevity? Pack heating subsystem wear? Plus I will have to remember to turn it on. 3 to 4 touches on the 17" pad. Ehhh... My drive from the Rod & Gun Club is about 30 minutes.... Will I be able to use LUDICROUS mode in the first 10 minutes? 20 Minutes? Ever? In that Scenario? Dunno? I suspect that the MAX BATTERY POWER traction pack temperature may be HIGHER than the regeneration temps but am not sure.
Another Scenario... On the other hand, in the garage, when on shore power that MAX BATTERY POWER could be of benefit IF all the power were coming from the shore power and NOT from the battery pack to preheat the traction battery. Do you know if preheating uses 100% shore power or does it utilize traction pack battery power?
I am very much still on the fence with the P90D Ludy... may downgrade my config to simply a P90D Insane.
Now if I lived in a normally warm climate (you and I do not) like San Diego or Florida, then this concern is of no concern.
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Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Current pack heating on models not including the P90D uses shore power when plugged in, but only works with range mode off, or when the pack has to be heated to charge it. So, for example, what many of us in cold climates do is we try to time overnight charges to end close to the time of our morning departures, so that the pack is still warm from having been charged. If we remember to turn range mode off, we can also heat the pack by pre-heating the car. In both of the above scenarios, though, I believe when it is cold the pack will not heat beyond the point where it will be regen limited to 30kW.
Having the Ludicrous Mode may not help you much with respect to actually driving ludicrously from the gun club to home. But if it works to heat the pack, you may be able to use it to heat the pack such that you leave home with almost no or even no regen limit when it is very cold. Assuming there is any pack degradation taking place when the pack is fully heated to the point where Ludicrous Mode is fully available, you would want to consider shutting off the heating before it reached that point if your only goal was to have no regen limit. I could be wrong, but I would have to think that if you only heated the pack to the point of no regen limit, you couldn't be causing any pack degradation due to the heat, since the pack would still be quite cold.
I guess what I'm saying is that you could use the ability to heat the pack as a separate feature not available on the older cars. It's a feature we've been asking for, but don't have yet.
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