My on going battle regarding my purchase of a used 2013 Model S P85+

[P85+Owner]

Bear with me as I describe my migraine headache with a fairly recent purchase of an 11 year old 2013 Tesla Model S, P85+.

I was brand new to Tesla 9 months ago when I purchased a used 2013 Model S, P85+ with low miles on it from a Mom & Pop car dealership here in So Cal. As usual my sales person said what most say when you're looking at buying any used car. "Its great, it has low mileage, its a great price," etc... But wait, he said, "we replaced the motor recently with a Standard motor." My response was "Great you say you replaced the motor, that's awesome." "Yes", was his response. "We put a standard motor in this P85+."

Being absolutely new to Tesla that meant nothing to me. Fast forward 2 days later and I purchased the car. Of course I eventually noticed that my dashboard and 17" screen never showed P85+, it showed S85. The VIN# on my Tesla App says that I own a P85+. Carfax shows that I own a P85+. Even Tesla headquarters confirms that the car is a P85+. Every detail on my car, including the badging shows that this car is a P85+ however both screens on my dashboard show that its a S85.

My unfortunate dilemma is when I attempt to sell the car sometime in the future, what model is this car? Is it simply a P85+ with a Standard motor? That's like pulling a V8 out of a sports car and replacing it with a V6, right? Confusing at best.

I'm not blaming the dealership but it would have been nice if they actually took the time to truly explain how significant swapping the motor out of a P85+ with a Standard S85 motor truly was. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have purchased the car. BTW, the dealership is out of business and my insurance company is billing me for a P85+.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Try not to kick a man to hard when he's down, I just need some help getting back up, thanks. I attached recent pictures to this thread.

 

[jjrandorin]

The thread title says "on going battle". What is the ongoing battle you are talking about? Who or whom are you battling, what?

You have a "frankencar" basically, but you seem to know that. If you go to sell it, you could do the same thing the seller did when they sold it to you and say "Its a P85 but has a standard motor." As you know, that means the vin may say its a P85, but the car itself does not have that performance.

As far as "when you attempt to sell the car in the future", since its a "frankencar" meaning the parts dont match the vin, its going to take a buyer who is ok with that, and the value is likely going to be low. You should plan on driving it into the ground, vs trying to ever sell it.

 

[fholbert]

Bear with me as I describe my migraine headache with a fairly recent purchase of an 11 year old 2013 Tesla Model S, P85+.

I was brand new to Tesla 9 months ago when I purchased a used 2013 Model S, P85+ with low miles on it from a Mom & Pop car dealership here in So Cal. As usual my sales person said what most say when you're looking at buying any used car. "Its great, it has low mileage, its a great price," etc... But wait, he said, "we replaced the motor recently with a Standard motor." My response was "Great you say you replaced the motor, that's awesome." "Yes", was his response. "We put a standard motor in this P85+."

Being absolutely new to Tesla that meant nothing to me. Fast forward 2 days later and I purchased the car. Of course I eventually noticed that my dashboard and 17" screen never showed P85+, it showed S85. The VIN# on my Tesla App says that I own a P85+. Carfax shows that I own a P85+. Even Tesla headquarters confirms that the car is a P85+. Every detail on my car, including the badging shows that this car is a P85+ however both screens on my dashboard show that its a S85.

My unfortunate dilemma is when I attempt to sell the car sometime in the future, what model is this car? Is it simply a P85+ with a Standard motor? That's like pulling a V8 out of a sports car and replacing it with a V6, right? Confusing at best.

I'm not blaming the dealership but it would have been nice if they actually took the time to truly explain how significant swapping the motor out of a P85+ with a Standard S85 motor truly was. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have purchased the car. BTW, the dealership is out of business and my insurance company is billing me for a P85+.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Try not to kick a man to hard when he's down, I just need some help getting back up, thanks. I attached recent pictures to this thread.

How did you get the latest car pool stickers on an 11 year old car?

 

[cptnslo]

Considering how much work would go into swapping a motor plus reprogramming it I’m incredibly surprised that a small mom-and-pop dealership would do something like that because clearly it’s not gonna be Tesla that would’ve installed a lower trim motor on the car for a previous owner

 

[hsfrank]

first of all, call your insurance company and find out if there is a difference in rates between a P 85 and a P 95. If there isn’t then there’s no big deal to you. If and when you sell, it just be accurate in your description of what your car is, and as the saying goes and the law is buyer beware . as far as performance grows, in my opinion, I do not believe anyone buying an 11-year-old car is interested in performance. The exception might be if they intend to buy it and modify it.

 

[n2mb_racing]

You could check the actual part number on the motor and see if it is a regular motor or a performance motor. If it is a performance motor, then you might be able to get someone to fix the programming.

 

[racerx2005]

I wouldn’t buy any 2013 car, EV or otherwise … definitely not an EV.
As far as yours, you failed to research before buying it, so now you’ve got a lemon clunker. Good luck with all that!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I wouldn’t buy any 2013 car, EV or otherwise … definitely not an EV.
As far as yours, you failed to research before buying it, so now you’ve got a lemon clunker. Good luck with all that!

It's not a lemon clunker. It's just an 85, perhaps with better brakes?
Weren't P85+ just using "selected" motors rather than a different motor? Or was that the original P85?

 

[P85+Owner]

The thread title says "on going battle". What is the ongoing battle you are talking about? Who or whom are you battling, what?

You have a "frankencar" basically, but you seem to know that. If you go to sell it, you could do the same thing the seller did when they sold it to you and say "Its a P85 but has a standard motor." As you know, that means the vin may say its a P85, but the car itself does not have that performance.

As far as "when you attempt to sell the car in the future", since its a "frankencar" meaning the parts dont match the vin, its going to take a buyer who is ok with that, and the value is likely going to be low. You should plan on driving it into the ground, vs trying to ever sell it.

Thank you jjrandorin for the info. Its probably more minor than anything but the on going battle is Tesla Corporate officially has my car listed as a P85+ that ties into the VIN when it came off of the assembly line back in 2013. I've requested that they change that to S85 so that everything else lines up properly such as Carfax, Auto Insurance, official paperwork etc... I suppose its not significant as it stands. It's simply a confusing matter.

 

[P85+Owner]

How did you get the latest car pool stickers on an 11 year old car?

To my surprise the car has never had HOV, carpool stickers assigned to it here in California so when I looked up my VIN on the California.gov eligibility site it had not had stickers ever assigned. I could then move forward with the process to obtain them.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thank you jjrandorin for the info. Its probably more minor than anything but the on going battle is Tesla Corporate officially has my car listed as a P85+ that ties into the VIN when it came off of the assembly line back in 2013. I've requested that they change that to S85 so that everything else lines up properly such as Carfax, Auto Insurance, official paperwork etc... I suppose its not significant as it stands. It's simply a confusing matter.

I dont know at all how that would work (Tesla changing the vin information because of some aftermarket work they did not perform).

For example, if a independent BMW garage took an older E series BMW M3 and replaced the engine in the M3 with a BMW 4 cylinder, is BMW or anyone else going to change the vin description to be a 325 instead of a M3? No, I dont think they are, and I dont think anyone would expect them to.

if someone then bought this car, which had M3 badging (and perhaps even quad tailpipes / other M3 "tells", from a mom and pop car dealership that says casually "oh yeah this car is an M3 but it had a bad engine so we replaced it with the BMW 4 cylinder standard engine", and a buyer says "oh ok sure, sounds good to me" then starts questioning why the vin says M3 and tries to get that changed, is anyone changing that?

Probably not.

Should there even be an expectation that it would be changed? Probably not.

It would be a "frankencar" just like yours. These type of cars are either "driven till the wheels fall off", or sold for pennies on the dollar to someone who has a specific use case for the car for something. You wont realize any depreciation until you attempt to sell it, so you should plan on keeping it.

You should not expect anyone to change the vin information to read something other than it did from the factory (see example above). if you go to sell the car, you will need to disclose the difference in vin vs motor, since you know about it (just like the dealer did with you).

Basically, you need to just drive the car till the wheels fall off of it, or try to dump it somewhere and start over, knowing more information than you know now.

 

[P85+Owner]

Considering how much work would go into swapping a motor plus reprogramming it I’m incredibly surprised that a small mom-and-pop dealership would do something like that because clearly it’s not gonna be Tesla that would’ve installed a lower trim motor on the car for a previous owner

When I reached back out to the the dealership almost a month later with my frustration about this situation, they explained that there are several experienced, independent Tesla mechanics in the area that can perform this service, and that's what they had done with this car.

 

[P85+Owner]

I dont know at all how that would work (Tesla changing the vin information because of some aftermarket work they did not perform).

For example, if a independent BMW garage took an older E series BMW M3 and replaced the engine in the M3 with a BMW 4 cylinder, is BMW or anyone else going to change the vin description to be a 325 instead of a M3? No, I dont think they are, and I dont think anyone would expect them to.

if someone then bought this car, which had M3 badging (and perhaps even quad tailpipes / other M3 "tells", from a mom and pop car dealership that says casually "oh yeah this car is an M3 but it had a bad engine so we replaced it with the BMW 4 cylinder standard engine", and a buyer says "oh ok sure, sounds good to me" then starts questioning why the vin says M3 and tries to get that changed, is anyone changing that?

Probably not.

Should there even be an expectation that it would be changed? Probably not.

It would be a "frankencar" just like yours. These type of cars are either "driven till the wheels fall off", or sold for pennies on the dollar to someone who has a specific use case for the car for something. You wont realize any depreciation until you attempt to sell it, so you should plan on keeping it.

You should not expect anyone to change the vin information to read something other than it did from the factory (see example above). if you go to sell the car, you will need to disclose the difference in vin vs motor, since you know about it (just like the dealer did with you).

Basically, you need to just drive the car till the wheels fall off of it, or try to dump it somewhere and start over, knowing more information than you know now.

Yup, your right. Thanks for the info.

 

[Gixx1300R]

drop the rear motor cover and see how the motor is labeled

 

[Zuikkis]

I thought all RWD cars have the same motor? Just perhaps different inverter in the performance model. Really odd they would do such downgrade because it's more work than just replace with existing model.

 

[Usher]

I thought all RWD cars have the same motor? Just perhaps different inverter in the performance model. Really odd they would do such downgrade because it's more work than just replace with existing model.

The "big" motor has two issues that make it much less reliable than the smaller motor.

 

[zroger73]

if you go to sell the car, you will need to disclose the difference in vin vs motor, since you know about it (just like the dealer did with you).

I'm aware of states that have full-disclosure laws for real estate, but I've never heard of such for automobiles. As far as I know, the only thing a used car dealer has to disclose is the title status (e.g., clear, salvage, rebuilt).

 

[WyoDude]

Advice:
Stop worrying about this. Drive it until you’re ready for something new. Sell it for whatever you can get. Take the learnings with you and don’t repeat this.

 

[brainhouston]

I thought all RWD cars have the same motor? Just perhaps different inverter in the performance model. Really odd they would do such downgrade because it's more work than just replace with existing model.

i suppose the 3rd party they used just had a spare Base motor (they are cheaper) and yes only inverter (and possibly rotor) are different, rest is mechanically the same. But fimrware/software is different so it had to be turned into S 85...

The "big" motor has two issues that make it much less reliable than the smaller motor.

In this case Small is not actually SDU found in dual motors, its the same big LDU with issues, minus performance aspect of it...
U cannot install SDU into RWD car... i mean physically u can but it won't drive, i haven't seen a single confirmation of this being done

OP, like others said above, post a label of the motor
If u decide to 'fix' it back to P85+, its actually not that complicated, just swap in performance motor n change the gateway config (plenty of 3rd party EV shops in Cali), LayZ is the guy to contact on this forum for all ur programming needs (assuming u have MCU1)
U can sell ur current motor n make some money back, so overall cost shouldn't be very high.
Do perform coolant delete mod if u go that route

 

[jay1122]

it is a 2013. 11 year old car. Who cares if the motor is not as powerful. If it works just drive it until it breaks. The car is worth what? $10K? You may run into a major repair soon and scrap it.