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Lessons from Model S to be applied to Model X

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#41
I guess it's just my feeble old imagination but I am starting to see the threads infiltrated with nit picky little posts like the Chartreuse color I want isn't available , so I'm not buying one. The tailpipes are missing, I'm not buying one. I think the seats are not comfortable ( because I've never sat in one) so I'm not buying one, Me thinks there is a issue where I must tell everyone I don't like something. Or the natives are getting restless and it's time to buy more stock.

Please don't put me in SNIPINESS JAIL, I just can't understand why someone perpetuates a thread about why they aren't going to buy the car, don't buy the car!
 
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#42
Lol, I remember the days when the drivers had skill and things like "blind spot detectors" and "parking sensors" were part of the car knowledge set.

I will always turn my head, with or without blind spot detector. I doubt that blaming your blind spot detector not working will ever be a valid defense in court.
 
#46
Not to yank the leash here, but this thread was intended to serve as something helpful to Tesla. My thought was that Model S owners would have a real basis of experience for offering suggestions as to how Tesla could improve on things for Model X. To reply to one comment above: I never intended that this thread should somehow indicate that Tesla should stop improving Model S, to the contrary, I hope that this helps them for the refresh of Model S in a few years.

After almost two months of using Model S as my DD I can pretty clearly say that I don't miss the rear parking sensors. The camera is awesome and the tilting mirrors allow me to stay off the curb. It's also great not to have that annoying beeping all the time when I'm backing up. I would love it if they added a front camera though. Frankly, the camera allows me to be much more precise when I'm parking than do parking sensors. The secret is that the screen is so BIG and CLEAR that the view from the camera is really useful. If you've used some of the tiny ones in other cars it's really not a comparable thing. I understand that other, cheaper, cars have parking sensors but the camera on Model S is much better than parking sensors

All that said, I still think Tesla should add the darn things (or have them available as an option) as they're relatively cheap and it will give one less nit to pick. Just give me a way to turn them OFF so I don't have to listen to that incessant beeping. :)
 
#47
After much research, I test drove the S on Wedneaday and have now reserved the Model X Signature.

I am currently driving a 1/2 ton pickup, and am aiming to replace it with the Model X. I am also expecting a few more little ones to be around in the next few years.

Thus, a Tesla approved towing package is make a lot of sense for me. No, I don't expect it to tow my tractor on a trailer, but if I need to pick up a few 2x4s and a sheet of plywood, or get the propane tanks over to Costco to have them refilled, I will need to tow a small trailer about 10 miles each way. I'll miss the open back of my pickup, but I will work around that if I can tow one of my three trailers.

The lack of cup holders would be a major inconvenience, if not a hazard. I didn't think to look for them when driving the Model S, but it was mentioned to my by a relative that they will always test drive any new car with a coffee in hand to ensure there is a handy spot for a hot beverage. Thus, I will add my vote for at least one cup holder per seat.

The smartphone app, the on demand music, the loads of storage space, and the quiet operation make this the car for me, which I will be proud to own, so I'm happy if it just comes with what the Model S has.

Oh, and the whole point that it's ELECTRIC.

Cheers,

Jon
 
#49
Kaivball said:
Lol, I remember the days when the drivers had skill and things like "blind spot detectors" and "parking sensors" were part of the car knowledge set.

I will always turn my head, with or without blind spot detector. I doubt that blaming your blind spot detector not working will ever be a valid defense in court.
Click to expand...

True to a certain extent, but in those days

a) cars in general (at least over here) were much smaller than the Model S
b) it was far easier to judge from inside where the body of your car actually ended
c) there were far less cars (and maniacs driving them) on the road

There was a time when I too used to laugh at all these electronic features that (in those days) only a Mercedes S-class seemed to have. But parking sensors or power folding mirrors are really quite useful on large modern day cars.

Oh and speaking of large, I read the current summer tire test in our ADAC (German version of the AAA) magazine, and they - as always - tested different tire sizes. The "large" category was 17'' tires by the way. What would they call the Model S 19'' or even 21''? Gigantic? :wink:
 
#52
My recommendations for the list (and they better fix them because I sure as hell am putting my deposit for the X :)):
* The charge port cover needs to close automatically. I forget to close it too often, and I've seen a few Model Ss around with the cover open so I know I'm not the same. Either that or make the cover face backwards so it closes on its own after getting some speed.
* Be able to open the charge port with the remote fob (either that or make it open automatically when a specially-coded charge cable approaches, that would be cool). I hate having to go back into the car to open the charge port if I forgot to open it (by now you are probably thinking the problem is with my memory). I think this could be a software update for the Model S: double click or click and hold on the frunk button to open the charge port, or something like that.
* Make "no creep" configuration still hold on a hill. I like the no creep configuration, but on a hilly side I can't live without it since the car rolls back when starting on every hill.
* put proximity sensors on the front (OR a front-facing camera, which would be even better). It is already a problem with the S, the X is taller so it would be even more important.
* Make the flaps covering the roof rack attachments mechanically stronger. I've lost two already at the car wash. Wait, we don't know if the X will have a roof rack (I like the idea someone suggested of a roof rack sliding backwards and lowering to the ground, that would be really cool), so this one might not apply.
* Improve the range of the door handle sensor. If they opened half a second earlier I wouldn't look like a car thieve half of the time (I'm beginning to walk slower when getting to the car just because of this).
* Add a trash can. Yes, seriously. I can't understand how people that wouldn't have an office without a trash can accept that in a car there's no place to put a used paper tissue, a candy wrapper or a parking receipt.
* Add some decent locked interior space. Minimalistic is good, but minimalistic stops being minimalistic when you start having stuff loose around the car.
* Add rear-seat heaters. The savings in air heating when the car is cool will more than compensate for the cost.
* Drop the wheel adjustment knob. Make that a software option or put the button by the seat adjustment buttons. There are too many knobs behind the wheel, that's the one to drop.
* Use decent floor mats. The ones in my S have to be the cheapest piece of junk I got with any car. The one on the passenger side keeps rolling on the floor. Seriously, they would be a low point on a Lada, but on a Tesla they are sub-sub standard.

- - - Updated - - -

ElSupreme said:
... more insulation, or moving to a heat pump (but as it gets colder they get less efficient). None of which will get you huge gains...
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure they are already using a heat pump (I can hear it working when I turn on the heater with low wind speed and the car parked). I may be wrong, but everything points in that direction. And heating with a resistor would be so massively inefficient I can't imagine they even considered it.
 
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#53
No-one should go off on a Model S tangent but:

Herbys said:
* Be able to open the charge port with the remote fob (either that or make it open automatically when a specially-coded charge cable approaches, that would be cool). I hate having to go back into the car to open the charge port if I forgot to open it (by now you are probably thinking the problem is with my memory). I think this could be a software update for the Model S: double click or click and hold on the frunk button to open the charge port, or something like that.
Click to expand...

Just press the button on the charge plug. Unless you constantly use a J1772 you don't have to enter the car to open the chargeport door.

Herbys said:
* Use decent floor mats. The ones in my S have to be the cheapest piece of junk I got with any car. The one on the passenger side keeps rolling on the floor. Seriously, they would be a low point on a Lada, but on a Tesla they are sub-sub standard.
Click to expand...

My Tesla floor mats came with huge velcro pieces on the back that hold them in place.
 
#54
Lyon said:
Not to yank the leash here, but this thread was intended to serve as something helpful to Tesla. My thought was that Model S owners would have a real basis of experience for offering suggestions as to how Tesla could improve on things for Model X.
Click to expand...
(1) Test the car quite a lot in cold weather before going into mass production.
(2) Test the car quite a lot in cold WET weather, including extremely wet weather, before going into mass production.
(3) Test the car in cold wet weather with blizzards on bad roads, for long periods, before going into mass production.

;-) Most of the car design issues I've seen on the Model S relate to "California thinking", from the windshield wiper recess to the defogger/defroster problems to the loss of range in cold weather to the ridiculously low-profile tires to the low clearance under the car. A long-term test site in the Canadian winter would catch these problems before release. We know they aren't problems inherent to electric cars because the Roadster didn't have all of 'em.

(4) Make it possible to close the charge port door from inside the car / automatically. This might be doable in a revision of model S, too.
(5) I'm finding I'd like a front sensor -- or, heck, a front camera -- so as to avoid overrunnning curbs when going forward. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(6) More internal storage space. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(7) Protection from coins sinking into the ventilation system or hiding under the seat rails. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(8) The aerodynamics on Model S appear to throw dirt onto the back of the car quite reliably. Perhaps this could be avoided in model X?

(9) The bigger issues with Tesla are about customer relations and do not apply to any particular car. The one lesson to learn from that is: get that stuff fixed BEFORE releasing a second model of car.
 
#55
neroden said:
(1) Test the car quite a lot in cold weather before going into mass production.
(2) Test the car quite a lot in cold WET weather, including extremely wet weather, before going into mass production.
(3) Test the car in cold wet weather with blizzards on bad roads, for long periods, before going into mass production.

;-) Most of the car design issues I've seen on the Model S relate to "California thinking", from the windshield wiper recess to the defogger/defroster problems to the loss of range in cold weather to the ridiculously low-profile tires to the low clearance under the car. A long-term test site in the Canadian winter would catch these problems before release. We know they aren't problems inherent to electric cars because the Roadster didn't have all of 'em.

(4) Make it possible to close the charge port door from inside the car / automatically. This might be doable in a revision of model S, too.
(5) I'm finding I'd like a front sensor -- or, heck, a front camera -- so as to avoid overrunnning curbs when going forward. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(6) More internal storage space. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(7) Protection from coins sinking into the ventilation system or hiding under the seat rails. This could also be done in a revision of model S.
(8) The aerodynamics on Model S appear to throw dirt onto the back of the car quite reliably. Perhaps this could be avoided in model X?

(9) The bigger issues with Tesla are about customer relations and do not apply to any particular car. The one lesson to learn from that is: get that stuff fixed BEFORE releasing a second model of car.
Click to expand...

Nice post neroden. Even though Tesla is probably aware of most of these issues by now, writing them down here hopefully underlines them if Tesla reads these boards. I hope they do. I would add if Tesla does a blog post on the Model X winter performance, my hope is less pretty slow motion music video and more real time video and post driving interviews from driving experts who are preferably not employees or major investors in Tesla. Your point of Canadian (maybe eastern Canadian) not Californian perspective and testing is a good one too.
 
#56
neroden said:
(8) The aerodynamics on Model S appear to throw dirt onto the back of the car quite reliably. Perhaps this could be avoided in model X?
Click to expand...

Can't agree more with most of your points. However, the point above - there may not be much that can be done about this one as it may stem from the aerodynamics of the car and the efforts to optimize them. I know for the Leaf, the back hatch of the car reliably collects dirt / oad grime way before any other part of the car - particularly after raining.
 
#57
spleen said:
Can't agree more with most of your points. However, the point above - there may not be much that can be done about this one as it may stem from the aerodynamics of the car and the efforts to optimize them. I know for the Leaf, the back hatch of the car reliably collects dirt / oad grime way before any other part of the car - particularly after raining.
Click to expand...

The only way to reduce this is to have an air deflector, which defeats most of the aerodynamics. Alternatively the back could be all glass with a washer and wiper system. The practical way is to choose a colour that doesn't show the dirt.
 
#59
spleen said:
Can't agree more with most of your points. However, the point above - there may not be much that can be done about this one as it may stem from the aerodynamics of the car and the efforts to optimize them. I know for the Leaf, the back hatch of the car reliably collects dirt / oad grime way before any other part of the car - particularly after raining.
Click to expand...

I think it's the Kamm-back, really. You don't see the same dirt build up if you have a pointy teardrop back. Probably not viable though. :wink: Pity the Aptera didn't work out.
 
#60
Hmm, lessons learned:

1. More robust headliner and generally tough finishes on the A,B and C pillar.
2. Better noise dampening from wheel wells
3. Ingress/egress from 2nd row and we all know they have this nailed with falcon
4. AWD awesomeness; we should see this prior to Elon's trip as I would bet TSLA stock he'll be driving one ;)
5. Towing
6. Steering wheel/column controls which should hopefully not be Merc parts
7. More cameras!!! Front, side, two in the rear (one for reverse and one for forward speeds instead of the rear view mirror). I'd like to see a mirrorless car actually. C'mon, Elon, move some engineering and political mountains!
8. More efficient with space inside the car as they engineer a more lean and mean driving machine. Less aluminum and less wasted space makes a bigger and lighter car.
9. Interior lighting
10. Storage and cup holders
 
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