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Does the EV lifestyle lead to obesity?

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Sounds like you've been drinking the soda industry's kool aid... ;) But it's not true according to research:

Aug 2 (Reuters) - Pancreatic tumor cells use fructose to divide and proliferate, U.S. researchers said on Monday in a study that challenges the common wisdom that all sugars are the same.
Tumor cells fed both glucose and fructose used the two sugars in two different ways, the team at the University of California Los Angeles found.
They said their finding, published in the journal Cancer Research, may help explain other studies that have linked fructose intake with pancreatic cancer, one of the deadliest cancer types.
"These findings show that cancer cells can readily metabolize fructose to increase proliferation," Dr. Anthony Heaney of UCLA's Jonsson Cancer Center and colleagues wrote.
"They have major significance for cancer patients given dietary refined fructose consumption, and indicate that efforts to reduce refined fructose intake or inhibit fructose-mediated actions may disrupt cancer growth."
Americans take in large amounts of fructose, mainly in high fructose corn syrup, a mix of fructose and glucose that is used in soft drinks, bread and a range of other foods.
...
The [soda] industry has also argued that sugar is sugar.
Heaney said his team found otherwise. They grew pancreatic cancer cells in lab dishes and fed them both glucose and fructose.
Tumor cells thrive on sugar but they used the fructose to proliferate. "Importantly, fructose and glucose metabolism are quite different," Heaney's team wrote.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/02/cancer-fructose-idAFN0210830520100802


And there's this...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3200248/

High fructose consumption has been linked to: diabetes, cancer, and recently, heart disease. The adage that "sugar is sugar" may apply in the sense that all sugars contain calories, but all sugars are not equal when it comes to longer term effects.

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Unless you are eating salad without dressing then the amount you eat is often much more important compared to what you eat. I have been eating pretty ****** at college, lot of frozen pizza etc. drinking soda and almost never cooking myself, but gained no weight because apart from that soda and pizza I would not eat that much more.

Oh and apples are really bad for your teeth, so maybe not what you want to snack all the time.

At your age, it's much easier to tolerate higher sugar and carb intake because you're probably a lot more active than the average 50-year-old. I was living the same way in college... 6-foot-5 and skinny as a rail. Even in my 30's I could eat a pint of Ben & Jerry's in one sitting with no effect at all. I managed to stay slim & "healthy" right into my 50's and never gave sugar much thought. But imagine my surprise when I was diagnosed with Coronary Artery Disease in my mid-50's. That was a big wakeup call. I was very lucky to find out about this without having a heart attack. Ever since, I've been much more aware of what I'm eating.
 
Sounds like you've been drinking the soda industry's kool aid... ;) But it's not true according to research:
Yes, but...

The first step of your body's digestion of a molecule of sucrose is to split it into one molecule of glucose and one molecule of fructose.

Conclusion? Sugar is sugar as it passes through your gut. All sugar is bad; just say no.

And it's hard to argue with the Reuter's article, since there is no link to the study for you to read yourself. Instead, you have to accept an interpretation of a scientific study, sprinkled with "written sound bites," created by a reporter who likely was a journalism major who took little science classes beyond the bare minimum to graduate.

They said their finding, published in the journal Cancer Research, may help explain other studies that have linked fructose intake with pancreatic cancer, one of the deadliest cancer types.
Great. So the apple chunks on top of my (unsweetened) oatmeal are going to kill me? I guess I should throw out all my carcinogenic apples, oranges, and bananas. Maybe I can subsist on a diet of 100% Soylent Green instead.

To be clear, I'm not saying HFCS isn't bad. I'm saying I haven't seen proof that straight table sugar is any better.
 
To be clear, I'm not saying HFCS isn't bad. I'm saying I haven't seen proof that straight table sugar is any better.

Not all HFCS is created equal. When HFCS is used in soft drinks for example, it has a 50-50-ish ratio of glucose to sucrose, similar to table sugar. At any time those 2 ratios are the same, I agree - their isn't a difference between HFCS and sucrose. Especially when it goes into a soft drink where you'd have both in liquid form.

However, when HFCS is used in things like hard candy, it can have a ratio of 90% fructose vs. 10% glucose. That is very different from sucrose.


But thinking that you're going to be healthier by switching to Mexican Coke - not so much. (There are seriously people who think this.)
 
But thinking that you're going to be healthier by switching to Mexican Coke - not so much. (There are seriously people who think this.)
But it tastes SO much better! I'm convinced the whole "New Coke/Classic Coke" fiasco was engineered so Coke could switch to HFCS. Before "New Coke" it was sugar, and when it came back as "Classic Coke" it was HFCS. With enough time in between, and with everyone clamoring for "Classic Coke" they could make the switch without much notice.

As for being on topic: I was once charging at a local bank, and walking around the premises while killing the hour or so of charging I'd need. It was cold, I had a large winter parker with the hood up and ear muffs on, not really paying attention as I walked around the premises on the sidewalk. Each lap took about 10 minutes. I was on the third lap or so, when suddenly a horn blasted, scaring the you know what out of me demanding my attention. A well dressed man in a black Escalade with blacked out windows, the kind one sees in the movies as FBI/CIA cars, had rolled down the window and screamed at me "Who are you, and why are you walking near our bank?" Somehow that attitude got my dander up, and I yelled back: "Who are you, and why do you want to know?" Turns out he was a bank VP and worried that I was "casing" the bank. I said I was just getting in some exercise while using their newly installed Electric Vehicle Charging Stations (Chargepoint, BTW), the very ones they put in for the public to use. I thanked him for installing the stations, and continued walking for one more lap, (shaking the whole way), although at that point I just wanted to get out of there. I continued walking to make the point I was allowed to be there, and wasn't doing anything wrong.

I haven't been back.
 
The fructose found is fruit poses little to no risk because it is absorbed into the blood more slowly, and fruit carries with it other benefits such as fiber and anti occidents.

Stupid racist sugar... sorry, this autocorrect was way funnier to me than it should have been.

For the record, I have avoided processed food including all forms of processed sugar from my diet for years, but I still lost 15 lbs since getting my Tesla. I think it's mostly because I want to look good getting out of it!
 
But it tastes SO much better! I'm convinced the whole "New Coke/Classic Coke" fiasco was engineered so Coke could switch to HFCS. Before "New Coke" it was sugar, and when it came back as "Classic Coke" it was HFCS. With enough time in between, and with everyone clamoring for "Classic Coke" they could make the switch without much notice.
That's actually true. And it worked so well, MicroSoft adapted the scheme to get us to move off of Windows XP to the technologies underlying Windows 7. "Windows Vista" was their "New Coke" decoy.
 
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Stupid racist sugar... sorry, this autocorrect was way funnier to me than it should have been.

For the record, I have avoided processed food including all forms of processed sugar from my diet for years, but I still lost 15 lbs since getting my Tesla. I think it's mostly because I want to look good getting out of it!


Hey guys maybe we could start a Tesla Weigh-Watch Program I need to lose a few pounds myself! lol
 
And it's hard to argue with the Reuter's article, since there is no link to the study for you to read yourself. Instead, you have to accept an interpretation of a scientific study, sprinkled with "written sound bites," created by a reporter who likely was a journalism major who took little science classes beyond the bare minimum to graduate. To be clear, I'm not saying HFCS isn't bad. I'm saying I haven't seen proof that straight table sugar is any better.

Here's your proof.. the abstract followed by the peer reviewed paper in a major cancer journal. It seems to me the journalist did a good job of summarizing the article in layman's terms. Sorry, but I'll take the researchers' study on this issue over your opinion:

Fructose Induces Transketolase Flux to Promote Pancreatic Cancer Growth

Plus, there's a lot more research being done on this issue and a Google search will bring up more studies.

I agree all sugar is bad (with the exception of whole fruit in moderation - not extracted juice) but some things are much worse than others, and if we are going for sweetness, why not go for less harm? I tell my kids to avoid HFCS because it's much worse than sugar, which is bad, and we read labels and buy sugar over HFCS. Of course, it's a free country, and people can eat and drink what they want, but a trip to Disneyland will tell you something is seriously wrong with our diets. We are the most obese society in the history of mankind and this is the first generation in modern history that won't outlive their parent's generation. I am not blaming it all on HFCS, of course, because there are a number of variables.

I am also in the camp that believes it's not the quantity of food we eat (within reason) but the types of food. If I cut out pasta, bread and potatoes, and eat a ton more vegetables, I lose weight. I am 6', 185 lbs (so a bit overweight) but if I didn't eat right, and exercise, I could easily be 250 lbs, within no time, just by eating the wrong foods for a while. I can easily gain 10 to 20 lbs when I go to an all-inclusive or on a cruise. I never starve myself though. I just eat more raw or steamed foods and lots of salads, take the dog on long walks, use my treadmill desk (that's the best thing I have ever bought aside from the Tesla) and I can keep my weight in check.

Maybe we could move the dietary discussions to.. I dunno... a nutrition forum? We need to keep this about EVs. Otherwise I'm going to punt this thread to Off Topic.

On topic, my opinion is that overall people into EV's are healthier. There's a certain mindset about EV's, the environment, diet, exercise, etc. that people of similar minds gravitate too. Putting the SC's next to fast food doesn't change that fact, since you can't be forced to eat fast food, even if you need to kill time while charging. Plus, I find many fast food places now have healthier alternatives that once in a while do no real harm.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but overall I think we are healthier than the general population.

I hope I brought it back on topic. If not, I vote to move it to 'off topic' rather than us going to a nutrition forum -- yuk!
 
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Maybe we could move the dietary discussions to.. I dunno... a nutrition forum? We need to keep this about EVs. Otherwise I'm going to punt this thread to Off Topic.

Good idea, I hope this thread does not die off.

I agree all sugar is bad (with the exception of whole fruit in moderation - not extracted juice) but some things are much worse than others, and if we are going for sweetness, why not go for less harm? I tell my kids to avoid HFCS because it's much worse than sugar, which is bad, and we read labels and buy sugar over HFCS. Of course, it's a free country, and people can eat and drink what they want, but a trip to Disneyland will tell you something is seriously wrong with our diets. We are the most obese society in the history of mankind and this is the first generation in modern history that won't outlive their parent's generation. I am not blaming it all on HFCS, of course, because there are a number of variables.

I am also in the camp that believes it's not the quantity of food we eat (within reason) but the types of food. If I cut out pasta, bread and potatoes, and eat a ton more vegetables, I lose weight. I am 6', 185 lbs (so a bit overweight) but if I didn't eat right, and exercise, I could easily be 250 lbs, within no time, just by eating the wrong foods for a while. I can easily gain 10 to 20 lbs when I go to an all-inclusive or on a cruise. I never starve myself though. I just eat more raw or steamed foods and lots of salads, take the dog on long walks, use my treadmill desk (that's the best thing I have ever bought aside from the Tesla) and I can keep my weight in check.

On topic, my opinion is that overall people into EV's are healthier. There's a certain mindset about EV's, the environment, diet, exercise, etc. that people of similar minds gravitate too. Putting the SC's next to fast food doesn't change that fact, since you can't be forced to eat fast food, even if you need to kill time while charging. Plus, I find many fast food places now have healthier alternatives that once in a while do no real harm.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but overall I think we are healthier than the general population.

I hope I brought it back on topic. If not, I vote to move it to 'off topic' rather than us going to a nutrition forum -- yuk!

Imo eating habits, sugar, bread and processed foods are the main culprits that cause obesity.

Better understanding of how eating habits can be changed and good management of eating habits may be the most effective way towards health.

It takes about two weeks for our taste buds to start to accept and like new, different tastes.

When a change in eating habit is being implemented (say a switch from 2 spoons of sugar in coffee to no sugar in coffee) it is more likely to be successful if the coffee drinker makes special effort during this initial 2 week period to help him/herself succeed. My personal habit change techniques involve better time planning during this period, keeping busy more than usual, strict adherence to schedule and discipline, keep myself away from situations in which old habit used to thrive, reinforcement of new habit by linking it with some other unrelated but pleasurable activities. Once 2 weeks are over, I can slack back to my lazier self, but with a new habit firmly entrenched.

The time and management techniques may vary for different people, but the principle is the same. Thinking about it, training body into new habit is very similar to toddlers toilet training. It takes extra effort initially, but the rewards are enormous.

My take on links between ev and obesity is that I would expect ev owners to be in a better position than general population in respect to obesity. Buying an ev reflects on a person's desire and active attempt to regain control over environment and to re-establish a healthier state. Similar attitude is likely to be carried through other areas of life including the body health.
 
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Here's your proof.. the abstract followed by the peer reviewed paper in a major cancer journal. It seems to me the journalist did a good job of summarizing the article in layman's terms. Sorry, but I'll take the researchers' study on this issue over your opinion:

Fructose Induces Transketolase Flux to Promote Pancreatic Cancer Growth

In my defense, I didn't say the study was incorrect, nor promote my "opinion" over their study. I did question the scientific knowledge of the reporters. How about this headline: "Cancer cells slurp up fructose, US study finds" (my emphasis). Boy, if you wanted to sell papers via hysteria, you couldn't have come up with a better headline. But I digress.

Thanks for the link to the study. The study proves that fructose promotes pancreatic cancer growth, but it's not clear that the growth is faster (in a laboratory setting) than with glucose (bear with me). It also says nothing about HFCS vs sucrose (more below).

I read the study, and it's interesting. Ignore "Materials and Methods" and skip to "Results". Pancreatic cancer cells metabolize fructose and glucose through different paths (not surprising), and the cells are more efficient at creating nucleic acids with fructose ("fructose was preferentially metabolized at 250% higher rates than glucose"). Yet, despite being more effective at synthesizing nucleic acids with fructose, the tumor cells did not grow faster in fructose ("proliferative rates were similar in fructose- or glucose-treated cells"). These seem to me to be in conflict with each other, and that wasn't discussed (that I could see). I take this as, in a laboratory setting, pancreatic tumors grow equally fast under glucose and fructose, but the metabolic pathways are different.

But "in a laboratory setting" does not necessarily equal "in your body". There's an important point in the Discussion section: "Furthermore, in healthy volunteers, serum fructose level rose rapidly following ingestion of a liquid fructose and glucose load, and in contrast to glucose that quickly returned to fasting levels, serum fructose remained elevated for >2 hours, suggesting that circulating human fructose levels are unregulated in comparison with the exquisite regulation of blood glucose." (my emphasis)

And that's probably the issue with pancreatic cancer. Glucose is metabolized throughout your body, so blood levels drop quickly. Fructose is metabolized a lot slower (in the liver), so it stays in the bloodstream a lot longer, feeding the pancreatic tumor. Not good. Again, "Laboratory setting" != "inside human body"

So back to my comment about "It also says nothing about HFCS vs sucrose" - Your body digests sucrose into glucose and fructose in the small intestine. One molecule of sucrose digests into one molecule of fructose and one of glucose. You can't infer from the study that HFCS causes pancreatic cancer and sucrose doesn't. The study looks at glucose and fructose in isolation. It doesn't look at how the sugars enter you bloodstream.

Here's some wild-assed, unscientific speculation on my part, which makes me suspect HFCS is somewhat worse than sugar (How much? Beats me):
  • Sucrose digests into a 50/50 mix of fructose/glucose.
  • HFCS 55 (used in soda) is 55/42 fructose/glucose mix, so you get slightly more fructose from HCFS soda than sugar (but HFCS 42 in baked goods has <50% fructose - maybe it's safer then sucrose?)
  • I have no idea how fast the body split sucrose. There's some delay in your body's breakdown of sucrose, whereas HFCS is immediately absorbable. So maybe HFCS causes blood glucose and fructose levels to spike faster and higher? That's probably not good. Also, if sucrose metabolism is really slow, maybe fructose levels don't spike at all (if your liver's rate of metabolism equals or exceeds the sucrose rate of digestion).

Also, I still don't understand the science behind how sugars in fruit turn out to be OK.

Plus, there's a lot more research being done on this issue and a Google search will bring up more studies.

Honestly, it's hard to find any unbiased research. You have the soda/corn industry funding research on one side, and the sugar industry on the other. Then you have the Chicken Little/sky-is-falling/I-saw-on-the-news-that-fructose-is-bad-so-I-can't-feed-any-of-that-stuff-to-my-family-or-I'm-bad-parent websites.

Here's a couple that downplay the risk of HFCS vs sugar:

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain't
NIH: Sucrose, High-Fructose Corn Syrup, and Fructose, Their Metabolism and Potential Health Effects: What Do We Really Know?

I agree all sugar is bad (with the exception of whole fruit in moderation - not extracted juice) but some things are much worse than others, and if we are going for sweetness, why not go for less harm? I tell my kids to avoid HFCS because it's much worse than sugar, which is bad, and we read labels and buy sugar over HFCS. Of course, it's a free country, and people can eat and drink what they want, but a trip to Disneyland will tell you something is seriously wrong with our diets. We are the most obese society in the history of mankind and this is the first generation in modern history that won't outlive their parent's generation. I am not blaming it all on HFCS, of course, because there are a number of variables.

I am also in the camp that believes it's not the quantity of food we eat (within reason) but the types of food. If I cut out pasta, bread and potatoes, and eat a ton more vegetables, I lose weight. I am 6', 185 lbs (so a bit overweight) but if I didn't eat right, and exercise, I could easily be 250 lbs, within no time, just by eating the wrong foods for a while. I can easily gain 10 to 20 lbs when I go to an all-inclusive or on a cruise. I never starve myself though. I just eat more raw or steamed foods and lots of salads, take the dog on long walks, use my treadmill desk (that's the best thing I have ever bought aside from the Tesla) and I can keep my weight in check.
No argument here, although (personally) I wouldn't assume straight sugar is much healthier than HFCS. If you need sweetness, it's probably better than HFCS by some degree, but I wouldn't count on much.

On a completely different topic - I need to get me one of those treadmill desks. That's just brilliant.

But what do I know? I'm just some guy on an internet message board.:wink:
 
Obesity is caused by swallowing more calories than you burn on an on-going basis. Nothing to do with EV's, lifestyle or anything else.

The statement about taking in more calories is true. Lifestyle has a lot do to with taking in a lot more calories than burning them.

Managing calorie intake and spend is a very difficult task for some people, because of their lifestyle. If a person works long hours in a sedentary job with little or no access to healthy food their health will suffer.

In a hierarchy of needs, health unfortunately is not the primary need that some people address. Economic or survival needs trump chasing healthy food or lifestyle for many people.