7 Major Automakers Band Together to build their own Network.

Interesting.

BMW, Hyundai, Mercedes, KIA, GM*, Honda and Stellantis will be building their own charging network (Non-Tesla branded), but will be using NACS, along side CCS which I think they'll eventually phase out?

If so this may indirectly confirm that the Big 7 will be adopting the NACS? (*GM already did as we know), but instead of using Tesla SCs they'll be just building their own "stations" which is smart from a business perspective so good on them. They obviously know that there is a huge piece of the pie up for grabs in an untapped free market.

It keeps Tesla from monopolizing (giving consumers more options), which is a positive thing. After all if it's NACS that's a win win.

The Big 7 plan to build 30,000 charging stations with the focus of making them more like a gas stations with the option to purchase food and snacks etc. Going into it with this intent out of the gate is much better than what Tesla did in just putting up chargers where they could without these amenities.

The new network from the Big 7 can charge all EVs so essentially this isn't necessary a bad thing for Tesla owners.

What do you guys think about this? I was curious why things were so quiet with the Big 7, while Ford and some others were quick to throw in the white flag submitting to the Tesla throne. I get it now...

Simply put, if Tesla was the Chevron, we'll now be getting a Shell, all of which we can utilize so it's just another option (network) to accommodate the future of EVs, except now it'll come with the convenience of having restrooms, food, snacks, and drinks like the old dyno juice stations.

 

[zroger73]

Too bad there's not off-peak pricing for gasoline.

 

[brkaus]

Tesla has the ability to change (lower) the price of EVSE provided electricity with the gen3 WC and the built in billing. I’m surprised it hasn’t been promoted much.

Most of the current systems on the market have high fixed and per use overhead costs. It’s simply a lose proposition.

 

[zroger73]

Tesla has the ability to change (lower) the price of EVSE provided electricity with the gen3 WC and the built in billing. I’m surprised it hasn’t been promoted much.

Do you know if that capability is actually deployed anywhere?

My electric company in NE Texas charges the same rate around the clock regardless of quantity, demand, power factor, or purpose. I also have only one provider to choose from. Fortunately, my rates are relatively low and the service is reliable.

They gave me a $250 rebate for installing an Energy Star-certified EV charging station, which included a Tesla Wall Connector.

They offer a 2.75¢/kWh discount for EV charging from 11pm-5am, but this requires installation of a submeter which has an $8 monthly fee. Not surprisingly, that monthly fee comes close to the value of the credit for the average driver - it's almost as if they calculated that carefully to ensure that the customer wouldn't actually save anything by doing this. When you include the cost to install the submeter, it becomes a loss for the customer.

If the electric company utilized the TWC's billing capability, hundreds or thousands in installation costs and the $8 monthly submeter fee could be avoided, but then the electric company wouldn't be making as much money.

 

[gt2690b]

Do you know if that capability is actually deployed anywhere?

My electric company in NE Texas charges the same rate around the clock regardless of quantity, demand, power factor, or purpose. I also have only one provider to choose from. Fortunately, my rates are relatively low and the service is reliable.

They gave me a $250 rebate for installing an Energy Star-certified EV charging station, which included a Tesla Wall Connector.

They offer a 2.75¢/kWh discount for EV charging from 11pm-5am, but this requires installation of a submeter which has an $8 monthly fee. Not surprisingly, that monthly fee comes close to the value of the credit for the average driver - it's almost as if they calculated that carefully to ensure that the customer wouldn't actually save anything by doing this. When you include the cost to install the submeter, it becomes a loss for the customer.

If the electric company utilized the TWC's billing capability, hundreds or thousands in installation costs and the $8 monthly submeter fee could be avoided, but then the electric company wouldn't be making as much money.

can you hook up your dryer and/or air conditioner to said submeter?

 

[brkaus]

can you hook up your dryer and/or air conditioner to said submeter?

My EV plan submerse is required to be connected in rigid between the breaker box and the meter, but the output is available, obviously.

I did sign something that said I wouldn’t hack it. And they could probably detect the on/off nature of a dryer heat element if they really tried.

 

[zroger73]

My EV plan submerse is required to be connected in rigid between the breaker box and the meter, but the output is available, obviously.

I did sign something that said I wouldn’t hack it. And they could probably detect the on/off nature of a dryer heat element if they really tried.

Just hang your damp laundry in your Tesla at 11pm, turn on Camp Mode, and set the temperature to Max. At 5am, turn the vehicle off and remove your dry laundry. The utility company has no way of knowing if the metered electricity is being used to charge the vehicle's battery or act as shore power for the HVAC.

 

[henderrj]

Every source I can find says that Superchargers cost 25-50¢/kWh. The three closest Superchargers to me in Lindale, TX; Nacogdoches, TX;, and Shreveport, LA cost 37¢/kWh which seems about average.

I have put 1,604 kWh into my Model Y over 5,177 miles. At 37¢/kWh, that's $593 or 11.4¢/mile.

11.4¢/mile is the equivalent of 30.7 MPG at $3.50/gallon costs! There are plenty of gas-powered vehicles that are more economical and cost half as much as a Model Y.

I love my Model Y and have no plans to ever buy another gasoline-powered vehicle for myself, but they are NOT economical for a minority of use cases once you actually do the math. I bought an EV for several reasons, but saving money or the environment were not among those reasons.

If you are able to use the destination chargers at hotels, then you do save money over gas. Basically we supercharge a couple times each day and then overnight at the hotel. That means about 1/3 less cost than you estimated. I realize it doesn't always work, but it's worked well for us.

Also, most of the cars that get better than 30 miles to the gallon or a little too small for us. If we find a vehicle the same size, they don't get 30 miles to the gallon!

 

[Alex425]

I know it’s probably not, but this feels like antitrust collusion of some kind. While more chargers is great, something about this doesn’t sit right with me.

 

[moa999]

you are able to use the destination chargers at hotels, then you do save money over gas

The days of free charging at hotels will soon be over however.
As they have to install more sockets suspect they will begin to charge to recover both the electricity cost and the installation cost (indeed Tesla offers billing as part of its V3 wall chargers both NACS and J1772).

Still more convenient than having to spend 20min at a supercharger before going to hotel, or first thing in the morning.

 

[zroger73]

As they have to install more sockets suspect they will begin to charge to recover both the electricity cost and the installation cost (indeed Tesla offers billing as part of its V3 wall chargers both NACS and J1772).

A minimum of six Wall Connectors are required to qualify for Pay-Per-Use Charging.

 

[henderrj]

The days of free charging at hotels will soon be over however.
As they have to install more sockets suspect they will begin to charge to recover both the electricity cost and the installation cost (indeed Tesla offers billing as part of its V3 wall chargers both NACS and J1772).

Still more convenient than having to spend 20min at a supercharger before going to hotel, or first thing in the morning.

I fear you are correct. On our last 5K mile trip we had only one night where we couldn't find a hotel with a destination charger and we found one hotel that wanted to charge us $20 to connect to the charger plus they had the most expensive room in town. Frankly the rooms didn't look all that great. We found one with four destination chargers and two universal chargers. There were, I believe four of us connected when I get out in the morning. Still free though.

It's going to be interesting to see how the competitive nature of the hospitality business comes into play here.

 

[zroger73]

I'm going to take the opposite view - I see free charging as becoming more common as a low-cost perk to attract business.

A few examples that are local to me in NE Texas:

• A high-end grocery store has offered free EV charging for several years.
• A small hardware store's owner has an promotes EVs and offers free charging.
• An insurance agency offers free charging.
• A few car dealers offer free charging.

The longer you're at these places, the more you're likely to spend. It certainly worked for me - I had never visited the small hardware store until I found them on PlugShare. While charging, I browsed around and ended up spending $64 on a couple of items that I would have bought elsewhere, if at all.

All of these are level 2 charging stations at a maximum of 10 kW. The cost of electricity averages about 10.5¢/kWh here, so it cost the business about $1 per hour for EV charging. A full charge for a typical EV would cost about $8. Now, how much is a hotel room - $100, $150, $200? Free EV charging seems like a pretty good way to attract a few extra customers.

With that said, nearly every hotel near me has EV charging stations, but only one is free. They have four Destination Chargers that share a circuit which limits charging for each vehicle to 3 kW. If you're lucky, that'll get you enough charge to make it to the nearest Supercharger.

DC fast charging will probably never be free, though - the equipment simply costs way too much to install and maintain. Installing a Wall Connector (or similar) or NEMA 14-50 outlet is peanuts.