This is not accurate. Filter for fast chargers of at least 72kw CCS in Dallas. Not talking about slow Destination chargers or private use chargers at dealerships.This is not really true:
View attachment 1006822
Granted, only the green ones are open (purple are planned, red is construction, gray is temporarily closed), and of the open ones, some are car dealerships that may or may not be friendly to non-customers, but there are still quite a few 7-Elevens, EVgo sites, and more reliable options.
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20000 new Tesla chargers at Hilton
- Thread starter Olle
- Start date
I have to disagree with this in all 3 cases where I tend to stay in hotels (on the road, when working away from home, and when staying multiple vacation days at a hotel). DC fast charging tends to take 20 minutes to an hour for about 75% to a 100% charge (especially in very cold weather).
I like to spend at least 8 hours (more preferably) sleeping in my hotel each night.
I would rather have a full charge in the morning (kind of like at home), rather than waste 20 min to an hour fast charging, in all of these conditions.
I will often stay at a hotel in a town along the road with a destination charger rather than one in the same time with a Supercharger in its parking lot if I'm going to arrive there for a night's stay. I'll happily pay a bit more for that privelege rather than wasting my valuable time.
RTPEV
Active Member
These are all DC fast chargers, although some are 50kW, so don't quite meet your 72kW cutoff, and as noted, several are at dealerships, however, if I do learn those dealerships are "hostile" and do not let outsiders charger there, I do mark them as permanently closed. You are welcome to submit updates to any of the sites you feel meet that criteria.
Anyway, here is the view if I filter for stations >= 51kW (I don't have a filter set for 72kW, but most stations >50kW are at least 72kW, so should be fairly accurate):
In fact, of those, only about 6 are 60kW or 62.5kW chargers. Here is what it looks like if I set the filter to 101kW or higher:
There is only one car dealership in that group, and it is probably the best example of a friendly car dealership (in name as well!) I've ever seen:
Friendly Chevrolet (2) | Dallas, TX | EV Station
Find EV charging stations with PlugShare, the most complete map of electric vehicle charging stations in the world!Charging tips reviews and photos from the EV community.
www.plugshare.com
OK, so you are saving a whole 20 minutes on a multi-day trip with many hours of driving and multiple other stops during the day? That's just a minor convenience and hardly justifies a destination charger as being essential. True, it's a nice convenience when available, but hardly a requirement if there is a supercharger within range. By that logic, you must order all your meals delivered to your room so you don't waste 20 minutes of your valuable time waiting for table service at local restaurants.
I went to Santa Fe on vacation last summer. The hotel had no EV charging, but it wasn't an issue since there's a supercharger in town that was always available.
I also took a trip to Terlingua, TX. In that case, destination charging was essential because the nearest supercharger is 130 miles away. Fortunately, this will soon change, as Tesla has a permit to install superchargers there.
RTPEV
Active Member
There is a very large continuum between minor convenience and essential that I think needs to be acknowledged.
Consider a multi-day trip where you've been on the road for 14 hours and finally arrive in the vicinity of your hotel at 9pm, with family in tow.
Option 1 is just check in to the hotel, plug in, and let the car charge overnight while you sleep, thankful to finally be out of the car. You awake the next morning to 100% charge, prolonging that first leg of the day when stops are the least needed.
Option 2 is to stop at the closest DC fast charger before your hotel. It's 9:45pm and everyone is getting ready to go to sleep, so not much need for snacks or drinks. So you just wait 20 minutes, or whatever the minimum is to get you to the first charger the next day, wishing you were able to relax in the hotel room. You awake the next day with 60-70% charge, or whatever 20 minutes got you, minus the transit from the charger to the hotel, so when everyone is well rested and not in any particular need of food or rest breaks, you still need to make a stop earlier than you would otherwise need to to get a charge.
Technically option 3 is to just get to the hotel with a low SOC and then charge ASAP in the morning, but of course that's going to take a lot longer because the battery is not preconditioned, and you will probably want to get more energy into the car in that first stop so you can have a reasonably long first leg.
Is the destination charger essential? No. But it's certainly more than a minor convenience. Everyone is different, but in my opinion, it's probably 75% along the continuum to being essential.
And then there is the use case where you are based out of a hotel for a week/long weekend. Again, it is more than a minor convenience to be able to keep your car charged for day trips that may or may not be in the vicinity of a Supercharger, and you want to avoid making a special trip to charge, taking time away from your vacation or whatever other purpose you have for your trip.
A couple of summers ago I stayed at a hotel in Olean, NY with charging. I was there for a wedding reception, and after the wedding, we went to check into the hotel, with only about an hour or so to get ready for the reception. The reception lasted late into the evening, followed by an after party downtown. It was probably after midnight before we arrived back at the hotel. We had a ten hour trip home the next day, so wanted to get on the road fairly early.
Now the nearest Supercharger (Salamanca, NY) is "only" 20 miles away (unfortunately in the wrong direction). So if not for the hotel charger, what are my options? Get to the hotel, drop off my family and then spend 40 minutes round trip plus 20 minutes charging (certainly not going to get a full charge in that amount of time), then go to the reception, etc. Start the next day with maybe 60% SOC and probably have to stop to charge within the first two hours. Or, I could wake up early and spend 90 minutes or so (with a cold battery) getting a decent charge while the rest of the family enjoys breakfast and socializing in the hotel, and then I've got my ten hour drive ahead of me. So even in the case of a "close" Supercharger, this pushes the needle almost all the way to essential.
Remember, sentry mode won’t work below ~ 20%, and it goes down about .5-1% an hour depending on temp, traffic, capture. So, arriving at a remote hotel location with very low SOC, and hoping to leave the car with sentry engaged becomes problematic.
we normally try and get to a hotel near an SC, where there are food options. Park at the SC and charge, while ordering food for pickup.. then hotel.
RTPEV
Active Member
I suppose that's an option when arriving at the hotel close to meal time.
Our typical trip that involves an overnight is typically a one and a half day deal. So we leave after work on a Friday for example, drive for a few hours and have dinner, and then another few hours of driving, arriving at the hotel late in the evening. The next day is a full day of driving.
I think a key point is that each of us has different needs and styles. We should be careful not to assume that what works for us will work for everyone.
More than 20 minutes. As with home charging, hotel destination charging can allow you to charge to higher percentages then you would at a DCFC. So that means you can avoid charging stops during the stay, but also when you leave.
For our Kona leaving with 100% v 80% adds an extra 50 miles of driving at rated efficiency. I suspect destination charging on our last trip saved us 3 DCFC stops, with 2 to 2 1/2 of those saved by hotel charging.
No, I try to eat while Supercharging. If I feel I want to eat a more relaxed meal, I'll generally supercharge much more than the minimum time required. I've mentioned on other threads that I dislike the Idle fee issues since they sometimes make me leave the table and move the car - more wasted time and effort, especially if the Supercharger isn't close by.
These are all optimizations we can hope for in the future.
If you live in Texas, I don't consider that much of a trip. I can get to Santa Fe from pretty most places in TX in 1 long driving day or 2 easy, short ones.
I did the same thing as you did in Santa Fe last year but didn't particularly like having to drive over to that defunct mall and sit there to charge. Remember that, in addition to the 20 - 60 minutes of charging, you also have to drive there and back. Luckily, my hotel wasn't far, however, having one at my hotel would have been much nicer as I could have hung out with the family instead. Of course, I suppose if the family is getting aggravating, maybe Supercharging is a good excuse to go get a few minutes of peace and quiet
Another use case example: I was working away from home, for about a week at a time, where the nearest hotels were about 30 miles south of our workplace. Back then, the nearest SuperCharger was about 20 miles north of the work place. None of the hotels in the area had destination charging. There was, however, in the town with the hotels, a 37 KW CHAdeMO that generally worked (except it stopped after 20 minutes of charging and had to be restarted). Between the 2 options, I made it work but it certainly was a hassle, especially when compared with driving an ICE.
A hotel destination charger would have been much cheaper overall (someone has to pay for DCFCs) and much more convenient.
My goal is to push (investments and online comments) EV technology and infrastructure to render ICE obsolete. Making it similarly convenient is key to doing that. While I concealed it from coworkers (by being anti-social). Had they been aware of the hassles, they would likely be less willing to make the switch from ICE.
My life is a bit extreme, perhaps, but showing it can be done conveniently with an EV, makes a strong statement for EVs, especially among the generally conservative crowd I tend to be with.
OK. So, despite a long diatribe, you agree that destination charging is a nicety, but not essential. Whether you find the convenience minor or major is certainly a matter of personal preference. But, it would seem that if you plan 14 hour driving days with a 'family in tow', you would have a very high tolerance for inconvenience.
So, you found that, even in you not all that extreme case, destination charging was still not essential. It would certainly have been convenient, I would agree.
I stayed a couple days at a small town about 80 miles north of Columbia, MO. The motel had TWO Tesla destination chargers and I was the only guest with an EV. Very convenient, for sure. But, still workable had there not been destination chargers.
But when you are choosing a motel wouldn’t you always pick the one with reasonable destination charging?
Destination charging is probably a cheaper way for them to fill the rooms than big advertising, it could be break-even or profitable.
I take your point about (no charging) still being workable, but no tv or wifi is also workable, I don’t feel Workable is good enough in 2024.
I believe your map is covering 6000 square miles. That is not Dallas.These are all DC fast chargers, although some are 50kW, so don't quite meet your 72kW cutoff, and as noted, several are at dealerships, however, if I do learn those dealerships are "hostile" and do not let outsiders charger there, I do mark them as permanently closed. You are welcome to submit updates to any of the sites you feel meet that criteria.
Anyway, here is the view if I filter for stations >= 51kW (I don't have a filter set for 72kW, but most stations >50kW are at least 72kW, so should be fairly accurate):
View attachment 1006946
In fact, of those, only about 6 are 60kW or 62.5kW chargers. Here is what it looks like if I set the filter to 101kW or higher:
View attachment 1006947
There is only one car dealership in that group, and it is probably the best example of a friendly car dealership (in name as well!) I've ever seen:
Friendly Chevrolet (2) | Dallas, TX | EV Station
Find EV charging stations with PlugShare, the most complete map of electric vehicle charging stations in the world!Charging tips reviews and photos from the EV community.www.plugshare.com
400 square miles, well over 1m ppl
I would pick one with EV charging if there were two hotels close together that were otherwise equal. But, as I said, if there is a supercharger nearby - especially if this is a one night stop, then other factors such as price or how nice the motel appears would overshadow having EV charging.
On my last long trip to Washington DC, I used no hotels with charging. I planned my stops based on mileage and proximity to SCs. I knew the SCs would work and destination charging was not necessary. So, it wasn't a factor for me.
Moderator note to participants in this thread: Please respect that others may have different constraints and ideals for how they charge on road trips. Assume their use cases are just as valid as yours.
Thanks,
Bruce.
Thanks,
Bruce.
Glad to see both Hilton & Marriott now enable filtering by EV charging available now. I still doubt that there are enough EV users to cause hotels to fill, but it must be making a bit of difference since they finally bothered to add the filter.
Of course I haven’t checked in years, so maybe not that recent.
Of course I haven’t checked in years, so maybe not that recent.
I have recently seen a lot of bad charger info in abetterrouteplanner.com lately. Someone seems to be entering Tesla destination chargers at hotels as 150 kW superchargers. This, of course, leads to bad route plans. It's pretty obvious when you see it, but if you are an ABRP user, please report any such errors.
I've seen a couple of these on the map in Northern Oklahoma and one or two shown in the Broken Bow, OK area show up on trip plans. There are probably others elsewhere, so check your routes!
I've seen a couple of these on the map in Northern Oklahoma and one or two shown in the Broken Bow, OK area show up on trip plans. There are probably others elsewhere, so check your routes!
Yeah its a good start. Reality is the hotel might have two chargers available for the entire hotel. The new Hilton plan they announced said at least 6 chargers per hotel so once that is completed that will make a big difference. Again Tesla users have tons of options.
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