Would you still buy a Model S if it doesn't get a 5 Star Rating? (Poll)

[dsm363]

If they fall short in any category, it sounds like the only area will be <5% female weight so if that doesn't apply to you or your family, it's still a 5 star car.

 

[onlinespending]

Yes if it didn't get 5-star rating in ALL categories. No if it didn't get an overall 5-star rating.

 

[AustinPowers]

I can only compare European crash test ratings but I know of no car that has ever gotten top ratings in every category, so to think that Model S could do so seems a bit unrealistic.
And seeing that even really safe cars like current Volvo, BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus etc. models don't get perfect safety ratings in current test sets, I wouldn't make my decision whether to buy the S or not dependent just on the crash test results. I'm sure the Model S will be a perfectly safe car even if it doesn't get 5 star ratings in every category (or even overall). Especially as the new Euro NCAP rating methods automatically deduce one of the five stars if the car doesn't get a very high score in pedestrian safety - which hardly any car does at the moment.

 

[AnOutsider]

From the shareholder letter:

We expect the safety rating of Model S will be independently determined by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and other groups. Under NHTSA’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP), selected cars are independently purchased and crash tested. NHTSA then assigns “star ratings” to tested cars using the NCAP standards.

Based on our internal crash tests and consistent with these published standards, we believe Model S will achieve NHTSA’s top, 5-star, rating. Compliance testing for global markets continues and will be announced as achieved.

 

[onlinespending]

From the shareholder letter:

I take that to mean they don't anticipate getting a 5-star rating in all categories, but expect it to receive a 5-star overall rating.

 

[Todd Burch]

I take that to me they don't anticipate getting a 5-star rating in all categories, but expect it to receive a 5-star overall rating.

My guess is that since the word is still out (NHTSA hasn't completed testing), they'd be a little nuts to make that claim.

I think they're confident they'll get 5 star overall rating...and they may think they'll get it in all the categories too...but there's enough uncertainty that it wouldn't be prudent for them to make that claim at this time.

 

[brianman]

Under NHTSA’s New Car Assessment Program (NCAP), selected cars are independently purchased and crash tested. NHTSA then assigns “star ratings” to tested cars using the NCAP standards.

I pray they won't sacrifice a Sig for this.

 

[mlascano]

I pray they won't sacrifice a Sig for this.

I was wondering the same. Elon mentioned they do not know when the official testing would happen or how they get their hands on a car. But if the do it anytime between July - September, it must mean they are crashing a Sig (or a few of them??), and that would be a shame :crying:

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I was wondering the same. Elon mentioned they do not know when the official testing would happen or how they get their hands on a car. But if the do it anytime between July - September, it must mean they are crashing a Sig (or a few of them??), and that would be a shame :crying:

Indeed. But, that's the way it has to go. NHTSA has to issue a safety rating before the car can be driven by any customer, right?! So, latest by June. Would they secretly get it from the Founders' series even?!

 

[brianman]

That's not the impression I had, gg_.

The impression I had was that they have to certify it as road-drivable, which is separate from the "direct analysis of a random selection from the production line."

It seems like they have to be separate. For example, for larger manufacturers they don't keep a backstock of 10K+ vehicles out of customers hands before they hear back that 9307 was tested and NHTSA has their data. That would seem nuts.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

You are right, Brianman:

http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/toolkit/pdfs/faq.pdf

10. How does NHTSA choose vehicles to rate? If NHTSA didn’t rate my vehicle, how do I know it’s safe?
Each year, NHTSA rates a sample of new vehicles that are predicted to have high sales volume, those that have been structurally redesigned, or those with improved safety equipment. Tested vehicles are purchased from dealerships across the country; the vehicles are not supplied directly to NHTSA by the manufacturer, a common misperception.

For the 2011 model year, NHTSA estimates 60 percent of the light vehicle fleet will be rated. Though NHTSA is unable to rate every car, all vehicles sold in the U.S. must meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

I guess the NHTSA must have gotten one of their secret agents in line (probably as late as January when the Sig line was still open and the car looked like it's actually going to be produced)!

Manufacturers are required to certify compliance with said Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards on their own and that presumably has to be done before the autos can be sold.

 

[AnOutsider]

So I guess it's kinda like the EPA thing. Do the tests on your own, to our standards. Does the EPA randomly test vehicles as well?

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

So I guess it's kinda like the EPA thing. Do the tests on your own, to our standards. Does the EPA randomly test vehicles as well?

Looks like the EPA expects manufacturers to report to them first and then, they confirm that in their own labs (not sure if it's random or for all cars):

Regulatory Announcement: EPA Proposes New Test Methods for Fuel Economy Window Stickers | Fuel Economy | US EPA

Laboratory Tests Reflect Real-World Conditions

It is essential that EPA’s fuel economy estimates continue to be derived from controlled, repeatable laboratory tests to enable a standardized or “level playing field,” comparison between all vehicle models. However, the underlying calculations proposed to determine the estimates are based on data from real-world driving behavior and conditions. Laboratory testing also preserves EPA’s ability to confirm the results of manufacturers’ testing.

Auto makers will continue to be responsible for performing the fuel economy testing and calculating the label MPG estimates. EPA will continue to confirm the manufacturers' test results by performing audit testing at its National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

(Gosh, the EPA website looks like it hasn't been redesigned since circa 1995! There should be standards for the quality of federal agency websites!)

 

[AnOutsider]

(Gosh, the EPA website looks like it hasn't been redesigned since circa 1995! There should be standards for the quality of federal agency employees!)

Fixed

 

[VolkerP]

(Gosh, the EPA website looks like it hasn't been redesigned since circa 1995! There should be standards for the quality of federal agency websites!)

You want federal agencies to waste taxpayer's money in a chase after the latest web standards? :biggrin:

 

[Lloyd]

No we here expect them to waste it on lavish parties, entertainers, and meetings with no regard for the taxpayers whatsoever.

 

[Dan5]

No we here expect them to waste it on lavish parties, entertainers, and meetings with no regard for the taxpayers whatsoever.

Well, the EPA does have over an 8 Billion dollar budget and around 17,000 employees (don't do the math unless you want to get upset).

But back to the safety thing with the Tesla- I am wondering who the 4 people who said they would not buy it if it did not get a 5-star rating. The only cars that are "perfect" as of right now are the subaru or camaro so unless you are trading one of those in, you are upgrading in terms of safety. Safety is important, but up to a certain level there's a diminishing return (you could drive a tank and ensure you would not get injured, but it's hell on gas, or have a Subaru 360- great on gas, light weight, but horrible in crashes).

 

[brianman]

Looks like the EPA expects manufacturers to report to them first and then, they confirm that in their own labs (not sure if it's random or for all cars):

Regulatory Announcement: EPA Proposes New Test Methods for Fuel Economy Window Stickers | Fuel Economy | US EPA



(Gosh, the EPA website looks like it hasn't been redesigned since circa 1995! There should be standards for the quality of federal agency websites!)

I don't want the EPA investing in website design. They're wasting energy (and money) almost every time they do it.

Minor correction: At least some of the site was updated more recently as per "redesigned this fuel economy template on 11/10/2006".

 

[Jason S]

No we here expect them to waste it on lavish parties, entertainers, and meetings with no regard for the taxpayers whatsoever.

I think that's called running government like a business?

 

[brianman]

I think that's called running government like a business?

Not exactly.

It's more like a business front run by mobsters, charging you for "protection".