Why only 40 miles per hour on Gen 3 Tesla Wall Charger for MYP?

[ucmndd]

the vehicle is nearly 3x as fast now, which I appreciate, but thought maybe other members knew a way to bump it up to the rated 44.

There is no “rated 44”. This is not a thing.

Your car is charging at the full 11.5kw - 48 amps at 240 volts. That’s literally the maximum power able to be output by the wall connector and the maximum power the onboard charger in your car can accept. There is no faster. You have the fastest - congratulations.

In your particular car, a Model Y Performavce, 11.5kw of continuous power adds about 40 EPA miles of range in an hour.

In a more efficient non-performance Model Y, the exact same 11.5kw of continuous power adds about 44 EPA miles of range in an hour because that car is more efficient, and uses less energy to cover the same distance.

This is not a terribly difficult concept.

 

[ucmndd]

Pretty sure the mobile connector is limited to 32amps...

Just wait until someone has to tell him he wouldn’t get 35 miles per hour from the mobile connector either…

Also I have to admit I do get angry at my friends who drink slower.

 

[father_of_6]

maybe other members knew a way to bump it up to the rated 44.

There actually probably *IS* a way to do this. It's likely that the only reason for the higher consumption of the Performance model is the larger tires. If you swap tires down to the same size as the LR, it'll increase it's efficiency to the same rate... which means for every hour of your 11.5kw of charging, you'd actually get 44 miles of driving (instead of only 40 miles that you're getting because of the decreased efficiency of larger tires).

Of course, in real life you might not be getting either of those efficiencies. Those are "rated ranges". It's like saying your gas car is rated at 30mpg, but in reality you might only get 22mpg due to driving habits (hard acceleration, stop-and-go traffic, etc).

There's nothing wrong with your vehicle or charging set up!! Be thankful!

 

[LostVector]

I have two plug in vehicles. I was using a 3rd party charger that was rated at 240/16A for the 14-50R. There was a regional incentive to get reimbursed for the majority of the cost to add a wall charger with the install. Charging the vehicle is nearly 3x as fast now, which I appreciate, but thought maybe other members knew a way to bump it up to the rated 44.

View attachment 962070

Just to be clear, I'll state this again since you said "rated" for 44. The wall connector is not "rated" for 44 miles of range per hour. Don't fixate on that number. The wall connector charging speed chart says:

1. All charge speeds are approximate.
2. The charge speeds are quoted as "Max miles of range per hour of charge". That means the number can be less in reality.
3. The column for the Model Y does not break out the variations in models. As others here have pointed out, the best case is the Long Range, and the worst case is the Performance, which you have.

There's nothing to correct or fix here. You're charging as fast as possible with the wall charger.

 

[maximusa]

That is an interesting idea! I wonder if I changed the tires size to 19" square in the sevice menu, and I'd magically get the 44 mph.

 

[ucmndd]

Further mind-blowing madness: If you plug in two Model Ys - one performance and one LR - at the same state of charge, on identically configured wall connectors, at the same time, they’ll finish charging at exactly the same time even though one is charging at 40 miles per hour and one is charging at 44.

/head explodes

 

[father_of_6]

I went to the gas station today and the pump only added 60 miles per minute to my Ford F350. Right after that someone used the same pump and it put 300 miles per minute into their Prius!!

Is there anything I can do about this? Gotta say, I am much disappoint.

@maximusa - this post from @ucmdd is facetious, but it's actually a very good parallel of what you're asking. The pump puts gas into all of the cars at the same rate, but the big truck gets less miles from 30 seconds of pumping than the Prius does.

 

[father_of_6]

That is an interesting idea! I wonder if I changed the tires size to 19" square in the sevice menu, and I'd magically get the 44 mph.

No. You're still misunderstanding. Your Model Y Performance uses more energy than the LR for the same amount of distance.

After an hour of charging each of them on your same hardwired connector, the LR will be able to drive 44 miles and the P will be able to drive 40 miles, each using the exact same total amount of energy. This is because the P is less efficient (from larger tires, I believe).

If you lie to your car and tell it you put smaller tires on (in the service menu), then it *might* lie back to you about how many miles you'll be able to drive with an hour worth of energy... but that will have zero impact on your actual charging speed.

You're wasting your time (as am I, as well as everyone else in this thread).

 

[LostVector]

No. You're still misunderstanding. Your Model Y Performance uses more energy than the LR for the same amount of distance.

After an hour of charging each of them on your same hardwired connector, the LR will be able to drive 44 miles and the P will be able to drive 40 miles, each using the exact same total amount of energy. This is because the P is less efficient (from larger tires, I believe).

If you lie to your car and tell it you put smaller tires on (in the service menu), then it *might* lie back to you about how many miles you'll be able to drive with an hour worth of energy... but that will have zero impact on your actual charging speed.

You're wasting your time (as am I, as well as everyone else in this thread).

Yes, the lack of acknowledgement of some very specific facts regarding a perfectly normal charging situation is puzzling at best, annoying at worst.

With that said, I'll throw a monkey wrench into this discussion with this other thread:

Info from Tesla - 277v feed to Wall Connector (HPWC) - Which Cars Support It

I have been involved in a number of threads on the forums regarding 277v support via the Wall Connector / HPWC. There seems to be a lack of clarity in what is and is not supported and whether it will require a trip to the service center to "reset" your car if the voltage is too high. Because...

teslamotorsclub.com

It's likely possible to push beyond 11.5kW by playing in the upper tolerances of the wall connector's input voltage. Doing so isn't easy by any means.

 

[father_of_6]

It's likely possible to push beyond 11.5kW by playing in the upper tolerances of the wall connector's input voltage. Doing so isn't easy by any means.

That's a *different thing* than what this discussion has been. Interesting though. I'm not sure I'd care to "press my luck" to push the EVSE to it's limits. The benefit is like... zilch, and the risk is like... major equipment damage.

 

[father_of_6]

It's likely possible to push beyond 11.5kW by playing in the upper tolerances of the wall connector's input voltage. Doing so isn't easy by any means.

That post is very interesting indeed. Apparently the 3/Y can also be charged at 277v, with a +/- tolerance of 10%... so up to 300v.

However, Tesla stated the following:

Model 3 max power input is about 11.5 kW, which matches up nicely with a standard residential power supply (240 volts * 48 amps = 11.5 kW).

So it turns out that the Model 3 caps out at 11.5kW regardless of voltage... and I assume the Y to be the same.

 

[ucmndd]

In my experience, voltage over 240v simply causes the amperage to drop to maintain 11.5kw, which appears to be a hard limit of the onboard charger and/or the gen 3 wall connector.

My home’s grid supply is often in the 245-250v range. If that’s the case when charging at max speed the amperage drops to 46 or 47 and I can’t set it higher.

 

[LostVector]

That's a *different thing* than what this discussion has been. Interesting though. I'm not sure I'd care to "press my luck" to push the EVSE to it's limits. The benefit is like... zilch, and the risk is like... major equipment damage.

It definitely is a side discussion and not within the parameters of a normal install. It's interesting from a hacking perspective tho.

That post is very interesting indeed. Apparently the 3/Y can also be charged at 277v, with a +/- tolerance of 10%... so up to 300v.

However, Tesla stated the following:


So it turns out that the Model 3 caps out at 11.5kW regardless of voltage... and I assume the Y to be the same.

It's a long thread, but you can see in later screenshots they get up to about 12.8 kW, so the limit seems to be higher than just 11.5 kW. At least on that user's particular car.

 

[ucmndd]

It's a long thread, but you can see in later screenshots they get up to about 12.8 kW, so the limit seems to be higher than just 11.5 kW. At least on that user's particular car.

Seems like this is possible with the older gen2 wall connectors. Gen3 not so much.

 

[father_of_6]

It's a long thread, but you can see in later screenshots they get up to about 12.8 kW, so the limit seems to be higher than just 11.5 kW. At least on that user's particular car.

The only real reason I can see to do this would be to get to 1.21 gigawatts... then we could prevent this thread from ever happening (or convince @maximusa to get the LR).

 

[455dan]

Okay, sure. I just looked at the Tesla Shop pages for the Mobile and Wall connectors. Do you know that they don't show? Wattage.

If you are going to tell people not to use mph, then you always need to include an explanation of what to use and the ratings of the products, since Tesla doesn't do so.

View attachment 961652

View attachment 961653

The Car will show you that while charging.
It shows you input KW
It shows you AC split phase Voltage ~240
It shows you current 48 Amps

V X A = P which is ~ 240 x 48 = Watts 11-12 KW

Good as it Gets unless you increase the supply voltage So with a heavy duty step up transformer or if you get the power company to use the next higher tap if you are on your own step down transformer Which we did.
You are Stuffing the battery pack full of electrons as fast as the 48 amps @240VAC will allow.

Yes, the lack of acknowledgement of some very specific
Forum list
facts regarding a perfectly normal charging situation is puzzling at best, annoying at worst.

With that said, I'll throw a monkey wrench into this discussion with this other thread:

Info from Tesla - 277v feed to Wall Connector (HPWC) - Which Cars Support It

I have been involved in a number of threads on the forums regarding 277v support via the Wall Connector / HPWC. There seems to be a lack of clarity in what is and is not supported and whether it will require a trip to the service center to "reset" your car if the voltage is too high. Because...

teslamotorsclub.com

It's likely possible to push beyond 11.5kW by playing in the upper tolerances of the wall connector's input voltage. Doing so isn't easy by any means.

When we had power brought in underground after the meter I had the linesman Tap us on the high side but within our service providers allowable guidelines at the time, since I run a lot of high use welders
( IdealArc TIG 300 300 requires over 110 amps) /compressors/etc and 3 phase is not available.

Tonight I checked the screen when plugging in the Y and the AC line was at 257 VAC but Usually under load is around 240 vac and sometimes shows 12 KW
pic from the other day after arriving home and plugging in mid day.

 

[gt2690b]

Pretty sure the mobile connector is limited to 32amps... plus you then need to purchase a high quality outlet ($100) plus a GFCI breaker ($150)... so actually what you have (the HPWC) cost less and is of better quality (safety) and charging speed....

The gen 1 connector was 40A

He presumably already had all of that since he already had a 14-50R in his garage

 

[cwerdna]

This is a really strange thing to say, to me, even though I understand that many (most?) people look at this in "miles per hour of range charged" when that isnt really what is happening.

Whats strange is, somehow thinking that 40 MPH makes less sense to pay for than 43-44 MPH.

In any case, the fastest they charge is 11.5kWh, and that is the same maximum charging speed across model 3s and Ys that are able to take 48amp charging. Both model Y long range and Model Y Performance charge at that same maximum 11.5 kWh charge speed.

What it displays on the screen for charge rate also has to do with Voltage, since the voltage matters.

The AVERAGE charge rates for a given amperage are in Teslas charts:

View attachment 961452

Whether you get 44 MPH or 40 MPH from a 60amp circuit / 48amp charging, is going to depend on the voltage you are charging at. My wifes Model Y performance charges at 43-44 MPH, for example, and my house runs a little hot voltage wise, at 243 to 244 volts, under load, while charging.


The answer to "Will tesla have an update to address this?" is "No, because there is absolutely nothing for them to address".

Charging rate is measured in kW, not kWh. The table you posted uses the right units.

If you charge at 11.5 kW * 1 hour --> 11.5 kWh came out of the "wall". Multiply units and values. 11.5 kW * 2 hours --> 23 kWh

kW is a unit of power. kWh is a unit of energy.

One could also thinking of it has kWh / h or kilowatt-hours per hour. But h divided h cancels out, leaving you with kW.

23 kWh / 2 h --> 11.5 kW

 

[derotam]

That is an interesting idea! I wonder if I changed the tires size to 19" square in the sevice menu, and I'd magically get the 44 mph.

I just want to make sure you understand something... even IF you did this and it actually worked, you know that you wouldn't increase the speed at which you charged the car right? You still put the same number of kWh's into the battery during the same time period.

I understand why you are fixating on the 44mph because Tesla put it in a stupid chart, but energy is kWh, not miles per hour.

 

[gt2690b]

I just want to make sure you understand something... even IF you did this and it actually worked, you know that you wouldn't increase the speed at which you charged the car...

That's not really true.. if he got more efficient tires he would by some metric increase the speed of his charge since he can go further now with the same 1 hour of charging