Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[deonb]

For the first year after I got my Tesla, I proclaimed to everybody who'd listen: "I'll never get a car other than a Tesla again!".
For the second year, I proclaimed: "I'll never get a car other than an EV again!"

Today I drove into my driveway with my brand spanking new GMC Sierra Denali 2500 that will guzzle 15mpg of your finest diesel for the next 10 years.


This could (and should) have been a Model X - if only Tesla had either:

a) Delivered a Model X with a 10'000lbs tow capacity like promised
-or-
b) Not promised a 10'000lbs tow capacity originally, in which case I wouldn't have bought a travel trailer which required a 10'000lbs tow capacity in the first place.


I don't know why Tesla has to overpromise like this. The Model S is great and I would have bought it without the overpromises at that time (which there were plenty of as well). Tesla is like a teenager who can't stop lying about everything, even though there is no reason whatsoever to do so.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Oh no, Al, Nigel and maybe, Paul; the faithful are dropping like flies

As an aside, Paul, saw your Model S with those psychedelic rear T E S L A letters putting on a disco light show in the parking lot at the reveal event.

 

[Roamer]

AIMc, I feel your pain but must say I am happy Tesla did not go with carpeted slab box seats on such a nice looking interior. My bet is after they make enough classy cars with out the boxy flat carpeted slabs they will come out with a slab seat carpet coated option. I have owned many flat fold carpet slab cars and am excited that the sig cars will have a classy pleasant interior.

Nothing lost to sit on a reservation and see what's offered when you get the email then cancel. In my world we have purchased three cars to fill the time spent waiting for the two sig X cars to finally deliver. It's been a long slog. Can't wait to be EV on all my families primary cars. I absolutely hate it when I am stuck driving an ICE.

 

[Strib]

I'm in the same boat - 99% I'm going to cancel my Sig X Reservation tomorrow. Non-folding seats are just part of the problem. But I was unable to actually get close enough at the Launch to see it, and now I'm told I won't be able to until after I commit the $$. Biggest issue is that we're all awaiting some other features and I don't have confidence that the Sig X's can accommodate the feature upgrades - like my Roadster 1.5 was excluded from the 3.0 Battery upgrade.

 

[Mark Z]

...This could (and should) have been a Model X...

I understand your need is for today. You made the right choice for now. Perhaps Tesla Motors can give you good trade-in value on a new Tesla Truck when and if offered. Until then, I hope others who need a truck will consider the VIA VTRUX when and if it is available in the future. VIA Motors | Extended-Range Electric Truck 402HP/100mpg

 

[Roamer]

Deonb, My Quadra steer Denali is over ten years old with only 75,000 miles on it. Won't buy another one until they offer Quadra steer again. I love the Quadra steer. But I only drive it when I absolutely have to use it as a truck. Over the years I have gone to great lengths to fit things into our old Model S so I didn't have to drive the truck. When I need a truck I use it.

After many road trip miles in Model S cars I never imagined that Model X would be practical for towing even 5000 lbs for any significant distance. The range when towing has to be brutally short. So your decision to buy a proper tow vehicle is wise. I never envisioned the X would be a logical tow vehicle for heavy loads over long distances.

The old saying, proper tool for the proper job applies. Your diesel Denali is a great fit for heavy towing.

 

[CarlK]

I think the problem is that with Elon's first (second) child "model S" they played it safe, and it was a great success! So now with the second (third) he pulled all the stops out and went with ALL his ideas as they popped up. This often happens in product and design world. in the end the final product has too many of the cool ideas incorporated and therefore looses some of its goodness, becomes too compromised. This is the hardest part to hone and is the difference between good design and great design. obviously Elon is not the designer but the VERY charismatic, and probably impossible to say no to, hands on boss.

There might have some truth to it but when you look at it Elon has never played it safe. Everything he did from the begining it's weird, unconventional and risky. The 17" screen was just one of those but now people all think wow why nobody has thought of that. The more I understand the FWD the more I believe it is not just a form over function cool gimmick as many were saying. Imo there is a good chance this will become the standard issue of all high end SUV just like sliding door for minivans. Taking risks even that might incur casulties is name of the game for those visionaries. Play it safe is for the rest of us.

I sympathize with those who are affected but looking at the big picture I'm 100% behind Elon and Tesla for continue to take risks instead of play it safe.

I'm in the same boat - 99% I'm going to cancel my Sig X Reservation tomorrow. Non-folding seats are just part of the problem. But I was unable to actually get close enough at the Launch to see it, and now I'm told I won't be able to until after I commit the $$. Biggest issue is that we're all awaiting some other features and I don't have confidence that the Sig X's can accommodate the feature upgrades - like my Roadster 1.5 was excluded from the 3.0 Battery upgrade.

You could downgrade to the regular reservation. That should give you more time to get necessary info for the decision.

 

[wk057]

Al and Nigel, I think you made the right decision. Perhaps folks like you voting with your dollars on these issues will send the right message to Tesla in a way that general feedback from others can not.

The towing capacity I'm not surprised about, personally. It was ambitious at best to make an EV with any real towing capability that doesn't drop the range down so much that it's impractical. I'd bet that a Model X towing 10,000 lbs, if it were capable, probably would have trouble making it between even pretty close superchargers. Good luck making something like the Savannah, GA to St. Augustine, FL hop with a 10,000 lb trailer. Probably would be fine for around town stuff, though, if it had that capacity.

The 2nd row seats not folding is just inexcusable, though. Just recently I did a small project and was able to haul a stack of 8-foot 2x10s in the Model S, along with some 4x4 plywood, a bunch of tools and supplies with no problems at all and room to spare. Don't believe me? Photo evidence (sorry, no banana for scale):

(Yes, Home Depot... much like my previous epic Home Depot run post.)

I had pre-cut a small riser piece to put between the front and back seats to hold the wood up off of the arm rests and cup holder piece an inch or two, then strapped it in using the rear seat anchor spots on both sides. A stack of wood like that is pretty heavy, so didn't want it resting on the center console area.

It wasn't going anywhere after strapping it down. I probably even had room for a few more pieces, and there definitely was still plenty of room for smaller things, plus a front seat passenger. You should have seen some of the looks I was getting as I slid board after board into the car. Ironically enough, I was approached by a gentleman with a small SUV and he commented on how he probably couldn't even do this in his vehicle due to something with the 2nd row seats! (I forgot the brand/model, but it wasn't in the Model S/X price bracket).

While not a common thing for me to be hauling a bunch of lumber, the fact that the Model X can't do this while the S has no problem........ is a problem, especially since the X is the one you would think *would* actually be able to do this, but it can not since the 2nd row doesn't fold, which is pretty disappointing. One design change and it would have had infinite more utility, but for some reason Tesla chose not to do this.

Weird.

Oh, and here is one of my favorite Model S hauling pictures:

That's two of my 435W solar panels from my 44.4kW off-grid solar project. Those panels are huge. They're 42" (3' 6" / 107 cm) wide by 82" (6' 10" / 208 cm) long. And I got two of them in the Model S (my P85) along with a suitcase and some other things, without a problem, then drove 600 miles. I don't think you could even do this in the Model X, but maybe.

Anyway. Good call folks. For hauling things, including a**, I think the Model S is still the way to go.

 

[Roamer]

I understand your need is for today. You made the right choice for now. Perhaps Tesla Motors can give you good trade-in value on a new Tesla Truck when and if offered. Until then, I hope others who need a truck will consider the VIA VTRUX when and if it is available in the future. VIA Motors | Extended-Range Electric Truck 402HP/100mpg

I have been watching that truck for some time and hope to replace my old Denali with it someday. I don't see a true 100 % EV truck anytime soon from Tesla or anyone else. Towing requires too much energy to make sense with today's battery capability. Battery capacity would need to triple without a weight increase for a true truck to work.

 

[heems]

Speaking as an engineer, there are always trade offs to be made. You may recall Elon/Tesla speaking about Model S in its early stages and they made a conscious decision to make it a practical performance car vs a track car. (Although interestingly plenty people are obsessed with the car on track performance). We are now understanding a bit about what decision was made for the X. It was to be a "Soccer Mom/Dad" light utility vehicle. The seats are not for hauling 24' lumber rather your kids car seats. The whole falcon door is around lifting kids in and out of the back rows. Perhaps Take it to your local ski slope or mountain bike resort. Have a commanding view of the road yet be an EV. A car can't be everything to everybody. With this clarificatiOn we now see buyers who thought they we're getting rugged SUV / pick truck move on. Nothing earth shattering. On the flip side lots of other light utility users are stepping up. It's perhaps disenginous to say Tesla made a bad choice. They simply made a choice. Sorry it didn't make a die hard fan happy. Hopefully this brings on new new die hards. Cheers.

 

[30seconds]

I'm putting the over / under at 12 months for 2nd row folding seat option. Won't be as nice as the current seats, but seems like a big enough deal for Tesla to add. Its not like they aren't continually upgrading / changing things.

 

[pvogel]

Model X is tall and the middle row can slide forward. If you have an extra long load just prop it over the second row seats.


you can carry longer things on an angle rather than flat anyway (thanks Pythagoras)

It's tall, but so are the middle seats! Not that much room above the seats to clear cargo, especially at what would be a fairly steep angle.

 

[Yggdrasill]

For the first year after I got my Tesla, I proclaimed to everybody who'd listen: "I'll never get a car other than a Tesla again!".
For the second year, I proclaimed: "I'll never get a car other than an EV again!"

Today I drove into my driveway with my brand spanking new GMC Sierra Denali 2500 that will guzzle 15mpg of your finest diesel for the next 10 years.


This could (and should) have been a Model X - if only Tesla had either:

a) Delivered a Model X with a 10'000lbs tow capacity like promised
-or-
b) Not promised a 10'000lbs tow capacity originally, in which case I wouldn't have bought a travel trailer which required a 10'000lbs tow capacity in the first place.


I don't know why Tesla has to overpromise like this. The Model S is great and I would have bought it without the overpromises at that time (which there were plenty of as well). Tesla is like a teenager who can't stop lying about everything, even though there is no reason whatsoever to do so.

I disagree that 10k lbs was promised. One chatting executive does not a promise make.

But of course, expectations have been set - Tesla said a couple of years ago that the Model X would have "class leading towing capacity", which suggests closer to 10,000 lbs. Then there was the executive that indicated 5,000-10,000 lbs. It's fair to have hoped for closer to 10k lbs, but it doesn't quite qualify as a promise. I'd say my expectations for towing capacity were met, but only by the smallest margin possible.

 

[hoskme]

I'm putting the over / under at 12 months for 2nd row folding seat option. Won't be as nice as the current seats, but seems like a big enough deal for Tesla to add. Its not like they aren't continually upgrading / changing things.

That is my wish, and I sure hope it happens before my production reservation comes up.

 

[eye.surgeon]

For the first year after I got my Tesla, I proclaimed to everybody who'd listen: "I'll never get a car other than a Tesla again!".
For the second year, I proclaimed: "I'll never get a car other than an EV again!"

Today I drove into my driveway with my brand spanking new GMC Sierra Denali 2500 that will guzzle 15mpg of your finest diesel for the next 10 years.


This could (and should) have been a Model X - if only Tesla had either:

a) Delivered a Model X with a 10'000lbs tow capacity like promised
-or-
b) Not promised a 10'000lbs tow capacity originally, in which case I wouldn't have bought a travel trailer which required a 10'000lbs tow capacity in the first place.


I don't know why Tesla has to overpromise like this. The Model S is great and I would have bought it without the overpromises at that time (which there were plenty of as well). Tesla is like a teenager who can't stop lying about everything, even though there is no reason whatsoever to do so.

I'm surprised you would consider towing 10,000 lbs in an EV crossover-- without a solid rear axle, leaf springs, heavy duty suspension, tow rated tires, and heavy duty towing brakes. Towing that weight requires a dedicated tow vehicle like what you bought.

Even if the MX could move a 10,00 lb travel trailer, how far did you think you would travel with said trailer? 50 miles, maybe? And how would you recharge it on the road? Remove the trailer at every supercharger? Because you can't supercharge it with that trailer on.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Personally, I'm still weighing my options. I am disappointed the Model X doesn't have folding seats, and I would definitely be cancelling my reservation if Tesla hadn't come with the 6 seat configuration. I think the 6 seat configuration can (barely) meet my (absolute) needs. And I agree with AlMc that a utility trailer just creates a new problem. I don't have room for it in my garage, which barely fits a Model X, and I don't want to have it sitting in my driveway rotting away except for the 5-10 times a year I would use it. I prefer to rent a trailer when I need it, and I want my vehicle to have sufficient utility that I don't need a trailer more than 1-3 times per year.

For my purchase decision, I think it all comes down to the NOK/USD exchange rate Tesla decides to use. The actual exchange rate is currently at 8.43, but Tesla is using 7.7 for the Model S pricing. When I reserved Model X #14, the exchange rate was at 5.8 and when I made my current reservation, 6.3. So, if Tesla decides to use the actual exchange rate, that's a price hike of 45% since I made my first reservation and 34% since I made my current reservation. I expected the car to cost around 100k USD, so for me, it's equivalent to the price increasing to 134k USD since I made my current reservation. I really hope Tesla has done some currency hedging, and can offer an effective exchange rate closer to 7. It may be too much to hope for, but we'll see.

(I can actually dig up an email from 2012, where I asked if I should currency hedge, and I was told no, Tesla would handle that.)

 

[Phil Seastrand]

$300 solution to flat fold seat anxiety.

Utility Trailer 4'x8' - Heavy Duty Folding Utility Trailer

I have a similar trailer that I use behind my Honda Pilot. However, it's a pain in the ass to get out, unfold and hook up to the Pilot. Then I have to fold it back up and put it away. And, even folded it still takes a fair amount of room in my garage. Because of this, I only use it when I absolutely have to and would MUCH rather carry whatever the load is inside the Pilot. Moving to the Model X will be a significant reduction in Utility from the Pilot and I'm not happy.

 

[Ocelot]

It is kinda sad to see the reservations being cancelled. I am still on the fence, but for monetary reasons, nothing else. Although some close friends and family might disagree, I am part of a 'regular' family. We drive a 2008 Honda CRV and a 2007 Audi A3. Interestingly we hardly EVER take out the car seats in the honda to haul things. In fact I do not thing we have done so in over 5 years. Usually things fit in my small A3 with the seats folded down when needed to haul something. So maybe we are that soccer mom/dad demographic that Tesla is aiming for? When I told my wife the seats do not fold, she said "so?". Hopefully that will be the average response...

 

[deonb]

I'm surprised you would consider towing 10,000 lbs in an EV crossover-- without a solid rear axle, leaf springs, heavy duty suspension, tow rated tires, and heavy duty towing brakes. Towing that weight requires a dedicated tow vehicle like what you bought.

Even if the MX could move a 10,00 lb travel trailer, how far did you think you would travel with said trailer? 50 miles, maybe? And how would you recharge it on the road? Remove the trailer at every supercharger? Because you can't supercharge it with that trailer on.

Yes, I guess that was quite silly of me to go up on stage and talking about "best in class tow capability" and talking about a "10'000lbs capacity". Oh wait... No... that wasn't me.


The "remove the trailer at every supercharger" problem applies even with their 5000lbs capacity tow. Are you advocating they should rather have no tow capacity on the X? I kind'a figured Tesla would solve the removal-at-supercharger problem with some sort of hands-free hitching system, but alas, nowhere close. This is just another checkbox item for them - not a serious solution.


PS: That VIA truck that everybody keeps referring to has a 1000lbs payload capacity. This is even LESS than the Model X which I believe is 525kg (1155lbs).

 

[Roamer]

I'm surprised you would consider towing 10,000 lbs in an EV crossover-- without a solid rear axle, leaf springs, heavy duty suspension, tow rated tires, and heavy duty towing brakes. Towing that weight requires a dedicated tow vehicle like what you bought.

Even if the MX could move a 10,00 lb travel trailer, how far did you think you would travel with said trailer? 50 miles, maybe? And how would you recharge it on the road? Remove the trailer at every supercharger? Because you can't supercharge it with that trailer on.

Anyone thinking an X would tow 10,000 lbs never looked at a trailer tow rating chart. I could not find a 2500 Denali listed. If you put on heavy duty tow options you can get a Sierra over 10,000lbs. The tow capacity is also reduced by what ever you put in the truck.

Towing Capacity Chart | Vehicle Towing Capacity | GMC

I was surprised Tesla pushed tow capacity to 5000lbs. I expected maybe 3500lbs.