Unintended Acceleration Complaint

[JPP]

Remember a while back when Audi almost went under due to a rash of 'unintended acceleration' cases that eventually were shown to be 'pedal misapplication' and the implementation of shift locks (need to be pressing the brake to shift into Drive). And this was in the day of 'mechanical' throttles and transmissions, unlike the more recent Toyota issues. If I recall correctly, one of the things Audi did (before the advent of fully telemetered vehicles) was to place video cameras pointing to the pedals and the driver and do a lot of real world testing to see how people drove and if any events occurred that could not be attributed to driver error.

 

[jerry33]

I had an incident in our Camry Hybrid with the floor mat jamming under the acceleration (before all the news reports/recalls)

The first cars that I drove had the gas pedal hinged on the floor. The mats always rode up on it (as did pop bottles--and sometimes they rolled under the brake pedal). It was/is the responsibility of the driver to check for those things.

 

[deonb]

The first cars that I drove had the gas pedal hinged on the floor. The mats always rode up on it (as did pop bottles--and sometimes they rolled under the brake pedal). It was/is the responsibility of the driver to check for those things.

The Model S floor mats are particularly horrible. I have to adjust mine daily, since they keep riding up to the pedals. I can't believe they didn't have those floormat locks that Toyota has. It's a matter of time before they will cause an accident for someone.

I originally thought I had the original floormats and that the new ones are better, but when I went to the service center last, they said I already had the new ones.

 

[tpoltron]

doesn't the Model S have brake override?

I've accidentally run this test a couple times when I've had big flip flops on. The dash display beeps and says "both pedals pressed" and the car doesn't go anywhere.

 

[brianstorms]

That's interesting, in the ~2000 miles I've had w/ my car so far, never had a single floor mat issue.

 

[Discoducky]

That's interesting, in the ~2000 miles I've had w/ my car so far, never had a single floor mat issue.

All weather floor mats from TM have anchors for the drivers mat.

 

[markwj]

It is a sad reality that these unintended feedback loops exists. If the car accelerates when you press what you think is the brake pedal, your natural instinct is to press harder on the brake, which (as it is the accelerator) makes the situation dramatically worse. In my technical scuba diving world, I've lost several friends to just such a feedback loop.

Design and engineering can sometimes break these feedback loops, but in this case I don't see how the car can differentiate between intended and unintended acceleration when you press the accelerator pedal and not the brake. Sure, it could limit acceleration, but that in itself can be dangerous (as sometimes you need that acceleration to avoid a problem).

If this was me:

1. Make sure everyone is ok. The car can be repaired/replaced, humans often not.
2. Get the logs, and review them to see what pedal was pressed when.
3. If it was always the accelerator pedal and not the brake, then fess up and move on.
4. If the brake was pressed in any way, then raise the complaint.

I fail to see how 92% vs 100% accelerator is relevant.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I fail to see how 92% vs 100% accelerator is relevant.

That's mainly to discredit the Tesla engineer's explanation.

 

[AC1K]

i blame the driver, its obvious the woman didnt know how to drive a car, im pretty sure she was on the accelerator pedal while doing heavy regen, and when she wasnt slowing down fast enough with regen she floor the pedal telling the amp controller to deliver max power.

and also, both pedals = NO MOVEMENT

 

[Dragonfly]

In the court of public opinion, the nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it's the seriousness of the charge that matters. I may be a conspiracy theorist, but I smell the ingredients of a negative PR campaign. I'm not making any accusations, but the state dealer associations and big 3 haven't been too keen on Tesla the past few months. The charge is out there. The rumor mill has started. Even if NHTSA investigates and finds it was driver error, the media will most likely not report that, so the rumor will remain that your Tesla will take off without you.

Anyone on here know the owner/driver? Perhaps they could come on here and state their case to those of us who know the car the best?

 

[brianstorms]

View attachment 31412

[OT, on a quick side note -- how does one get the driver's display to show things this way, with energy consumption on the left, and trip data on the right? Is this a 4.5-and-earlier firmware thing? My car came with 5.0, and my left-hand region of the display stays blank unless I have audio playing (I don't have parking sensors), and the right-hand area shows energy consumption. I have never figured out how to get trip data to display in the driver's display.]

 

[GDH]

Man you people are paranoid

 

[FalconNinetyD]

Brian-

Hold down the left scroll wheel for a few seconds, when the display to the left of the speedo changes, release the scroll wheel and select what you want to see (energy chart, odometer, audio info), then press the scroll wheel in again.

Do the same for the right side.

-Mike

 

[brianman]

i blame the driver, its obvious the woman didnt know how to drive a car, im pretty sure she was on the accelerator pedal while doing heavy regen, and when she wasnt slowing down fast enough with regen she floor the pedal telling the amp controller to deliver max power.

No, it's not "obvious ...". Don't follow bad behavior with bad behavior please.

My current guess is that her foot slipped from one pedal to another (perhaps bad driving shoes?) and nothing more.

 

[cwerdna]

You'd be surprised how many people hit the accelerator instead of the brake pedal. When the wrong thing happens the instinctive reaction is to press harder. This sort of thing happens a LOT. Heck, it happened at the local convenience store; a lady put her car right through the front door.

Yep.

It is a sad reality that these unintended feedback loops exists. If the car accelerates when you press what you think is the brake pedal, your natural instinct is to press harder on the brake, which (as it is the accelerator) makes the situation dramatically worse. In my technical scuba diving world, I've lost several friends to just such a feedback loop.

Design and engineering can sometimes break these feedback loops, but in this case I don't see how the car can differentiate between intended and unintended acceleration when you press the accelerator pedal and not the brake. Sure, it could limit acceleration, but that in itself can be dangerous (as sometimes you need that acceleration to avoid a problem).

The piece at Smart pedals won’t put the brakes on driver error / UCLA Today covers basically this and numerous scenarios.

 

[montgom626]

[OT, on a quick side note -- how does one get the driver's display to show things this way, with energy consumption on the left, and trip data on the right? Is this a 4.5-and-earlier firmware thing? My car came with 5.0, and my left-hand region of the display stays blank unless I have audio playing (I don't have parking sensors), and the right-hand area shows energy consumption. I have never figured out how to get trip data to display in the driver's display.]

Can anyone tell me how this post has anything to do with Unintended Acceleration Complaint???

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, there are a lot of inattentive and distracted drivers out there, so it was only a matter of time before somebody had something like this happen and tried to blame the car. I think Tesla can pull their logs and get a pretty good picture of what actually happened.

Tesla can pull the logs in a matter of seconds after any incident.

 

[vfx]

It is a sad reality that these unintended feedback loops exists. If the car accelerates when you press what you think is the brake pedal, your natural instinct is to press harder on the brake, which (as it is the accelerator) makes the situation dramatically worse.....

Compounded by the instant acceleration of an EV.

 

[FlasherZ]

In the court of public opinion, the nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it's the seriousness of the charge that matters. I may be a conspiracy theorist, but I smell the ingredients of a negative PR campaign. I'm not making any accusations, but the state dealer associations and big 3 haven't been too keen on Tesla the past few months. The charge is out there. The rumor mill has started. Even if NHTSA investigates and finds it was driver error, the media will most likely not report that, so the rumor will remain that your Tesla will take off without you.

Anyone on here know the owner/driver? Perhaps they could come on here and state their case to those of us who know the car the best?

Unfortunately, these things will happen, especially given those who insist that instead of working with the manufacturer, someone who experiences an incident should run straight to the government to report these things. Then there will be those who insist that it must be the technology, not human error, and will disagree with Tesla and file a claim.

The good news is the mainstream press understands this and usually reports on this when it becomes a pervasive problem. Unfortunately, bloggers tend not to, and so "quick-hit" pieces pop up easily, while having to eat crow when it turns out to be that the driver pressed the wrong pedal.

From past incidents, it is clear that the car logs a very, very good collection of information. Tesla just doesn't access that information without your permission, although if the data is subpoenaed, access will happen.

 

[SFOTurtle]

That's interesting, in the ~2000 miles I've had w/ my car so far, never had a single floor mat issue.

+1 with 10K miles on the car, although I had mine replaced about 3 months ago when Tesla installed the mats for the rear seats. Up until that time I never had a problem with the driver's side mat, but the front right mat did keep folding over on itself. The new one doesn't have that problem.

 

[deonb]

+1 with 10K miles on the car, although I had mine replaced about 3 months ago when Tesla installed the mats for the rear seats. Up until that time I never had a problem with the driver's side mat, but the front right mat did keep folding over on itself. The new one doesn't have that problem.

Did Tesla replace the front floor mats for you? Or did you buy after-market?

When Tesla installed the rear mats, they said my car already had the new front floor mats. However, my VIN is 600 before yours.

Is there an easy way to identity which "generation" of floor mat a car has?