Test drove 2016 Model S P100D; Surprised by sluggish acceleration and weak regenerative braking.

[JeruSilver]

Hello, 2019 Model 3 Long Range (acceleration boost) owner here. I want to trade my Model 3 for a 2016 Model S P100D. I test drove a vehicle last weekend and the acceleration was much weaker than I expected. The car has been on the lot for 80-odd days and was at 50% charge. The car felt heavy and sluggish. My Model 3 feels like a rocket comparatively. Could this be down to the car sitting idle for so long? Acceleration flattened out around 40,50mph. I tested in sport, Ludicrous and Ludicrous plus. Another issue was the regenerative braking felt non-existent. The car is in Dallas and it was around 42F outside. Regen was set to Standard. When I let of the accelerator the car would slow down just via lost inertia but then it would coast at sub 5mph. The regen wouldn't bring the car to a complete stop. Am I missing something? These are certainly red flags; my question is should I look at another identical vehicle or is this standard behavior for this car? Could you share your experience if you've driven both a Model 3 and P100D? I'm in Washington, the car I just looked at is in Dallas and there's another car in Birmingham that I might check out. Thank you for an help.

 

[brainhouston]

If car was sitting at 42F then Regen would have been limited by temp, probably around 15-20kw
It also possible max power could've been limited too... 50% charge also limits power cause voltage is lower
Test drive it right after charging to around 80% so that batteries are warm
With ludicrous plus, it should heat up battery but it takes time, did u wait for that to happen?

 

[JeruSilver]

If car was sitting at 42F then Regen would have been limited by temp, probably around 15-20kw
It also possible max power could've been limited too... 50% charge also limits power cause voltage is lower
Test drive it right after charging to around 80% so that batteries are warm
With ludicrous plus, it should heat up battery but it takes time, did u wait for that to happen?

Thanks for the response! I got the notification about heating up the battery when I hit the ludicrous plus button. How long does that take? This trip was super spur of moment and I didnt have as much time with the car as I needed. I literally had 2 hours in Dallas before my return flight. Right now I'm trying to decide if it's worth flying down again and giving myself a lot of time to really get a feel for the car.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Thanks for the response! I got the notification about heating up the battery when I hit the ludicrous plus button. How long does that take? This trip was super spur of moment and I didnt have as much time with the car as I needed. I literally had 2 hours in Dallas before my return flight. Right now I'm trying to decide if it's worth flying down again and giving myself a lot of time to really get a feel for the car.

Takes about the same time to heat up the battery as it does on the new ones, ~20-30 minutes. You don't need to heat it up for normal driving, but if you want peak output, you'll need to heat it up just like you do on every Tesla.

I agree with @brainhouston - the 1st Gen S loses a bit of acceleration as the battery discharges, unlike the new battery/motor design that launch just as hard at 10% as at 100%. So, power delivery will be down a bit at 50% charge. On top of that, being 42 degrees and sitting for a while means that everything is cold (including tires), nowhere near peak performance temperature.

And yes, the S is bigger and heavier than a 3. It's a "touring car" versus the 3, which is a sporty car. You'll definitely feel that trade-off when driving.

I have a 1st Gen P90D. It's plenty fast, but the big differentiator between the S and the 3 is the level of luxury. To me, the 3 feels like a base commuter car. The S is meant to be more of a luxury vehicle (though no Tesla product rivals a true luxury car) both in materials and ride. I have a BMW E46 M3 for zipping around, the Model S gets me where I want more comfortably. And of course this is subjective, but IMO the S has always looked much better than the 3.

Whether or not you want to go back and drive it again is up to you...I much prefer the S over the 3 both for aesthetics and comfort - and I actually like the vertical center screen and cluster screen, they're well suited for the car. But your opinions may vary!

 

[MP3Mike]

When I let of the accelerator the car would slow down just via lost inertia but then it would coast at sub 5mph.

I'm not positive but I don't think the 2016 Model S has the "hold" stopping mode that allows it to regen to a stop. (Or if it has it, it wasn't enabled; it may have been in "creep" or "roll" mode.)

 

[Aggmeister2010]

I'm not positive but I don't think the 2016 Model S has the "hold" stopping mode that allows it to regen to a stop. (Or if it has it, it wasn't enabled; it may have been in "creep" or "roll" mode.)

1st Gen S cannot regen to a stop. Regen fades out below ~6 mph. Once you're stopped, it "holds" just like the new vehicles, though.

This is another matter of personal preference, but I find its much smoother the 1st gen way, where regen slowly backs off and allows you to handle the last few mph, versus the full regen stops which were a bit sudden for my taste.

 

[JeruSilver]

Takes about the same time to heat up the battery as it does on the new ones, ~20-30 minutes. You don't need to heat it up for normal driving, but if you want peak output, you'll need to heat it up just like you do on every Tesla.

I agree with @brainhouston - the 1st Gen S loses a bit of acceleration as the battery discharges, unlike the new battery/motor design that launch just as hard at 10% as at 100%. So, power delivery will be down a bit at 50% charge. On top of that, being 42 degrees and sitting for a while means that everything is cold (including tires), nowhere near peak performance temperature.

And yes, the S is bigger and heavier than a 3. It's a "touring car" versus the 3, which is a sporty car. You'll definitely feel that trade-off when driving.

I have a 1st Gen P90D. It's plenty fast, but the big differentiator between the S and the 3 is the level of luxury. To me, the 3 feels like a base commuter car. The S is meant to be more of a luxury vehicle (though no Tesla product rivals a true luxury car) both in materials and ride. I have a BMW E46 M3 for zipping around, the Model S gets me where I want more comfortably. And of course this is subjective, but IMO the S has always looked much better than the 3.

Whether or not you want to go back and drive it again is up to you...I much prefer the S over the 3 both for aesthetics and comfort - and I actually like the vertical center screen and cluster screen, they're well suited for the car. But your opinions may vary!

Thanks so much for the input! I was thinking the same thing about the weight of the car - this 2016 S is 900lb heavier than my 3. I can feel that difference in weight but I was hoping the motors would compensate. Based on your points about coldness and the car sitting idle I am optimistic that on a full charge with everything warmer the car will feel better. I also agree with you about the looks of the S vs the 3. I have the Midnight metallic silver Model 3, and it is cool, but sometimes if I catch it at a certain angle, I start to wish I'd bought a different color. I love the look of the Model S, especially in Red with the black rims, though it has always looked more 'conventional' to my eye. At any rate I do prefer it's looks to my 3. I do believe I'm going to fly out and have another look at the Model S. Getting excited!

 

[JeruSilver]

1st Gen S cannot regen to a stop. Regen fades out below ~6 mph. Once you're stopped, it "holds" just like the new vehicles, though.

This is another matter of personal preference, but I find its much smoother the 1st gen way, where regen slowly backs off and allows you to handle the last few mph, versus the full regen stops which were a bit sudden for my taste.

Thanks for the info! That's exactly at I needed to know. I'm hoping that in a warm battery the Regen kicks in a lot harder than my first test. If so I can handle that it won't regne to a full stop.Thanks again!

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Thanks so much for the input! I was thinking the same thing about the weight of the car - this 2016 S is 900lb heavier than my 3. I can feel that difference in weight but I was hoping the motors would compensate. Based on your points about coldness and the car sitting idle I am optimistic that on a full charge with everything warmer the car will feel better. I also agree with you about the looks of the S vs the 3. I have the Midnight metallic silver Model 3, and it is cool, but sometimes if I catch it at a certain angle, I start to wish I'd bought a different color. I love the look of the Model S, especially in Red with the black rims, though it has always looked more 'conventional' to my eye. At any rate I do prefer it's looks to my 3. I do believe I'm going to fly out and have another look at the Model S. Getting excited!

Just a thought - arrange an appointment to see it so they expect you, and ask them to charge it up and warm up the battery before you arrive. All they really need to do is put it in ludicrous plus mode and leave the door cracked (so it doesnt shut off), and it'll warm the battery up while it's plugged in. A few miles of driving will warm up the tires and brakes, and you're good to go for a solid test experience. Any good salesman will make sure it's in an ideal state when you test drive it if they want your money.

 

[The Duke]

1st Gen S cannot regen to a stop. Regen fades out below ~6 mph. Once you're stopped, it "holds" just like the new vehicles, though.

This is another matter of personal preference, but I find its much smoother the 1st gen way, where regen slowly backs off and allows you to handle the last few mph, versus the full regen stops which were a bit sudden for my taste.

Plaid has the smoothest stops ever just using regen.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Plaid has the smoothest stops ever just using regen.

To each their own. I didn't like it. But I've driven a 1st gen for 8 years, and only had 30 minutes with the Plaid, so my opinion may not be the best to go by.

 

[Drew-MS]

Hello, 2019 Model 3 Long Range (acceleration boost) owner here. I want to trade my Model 3 for a 2016 Model S P100D. I test drove a vehicle last weekend and the acceleration was much weaker than I expected. The car has been on the lot for 80-odd days and was at 50% charge. The car felt heavy and sluggish. My Model 3 feels like a rocket comparatively. Could this be down to the car sitting idle for so long? Acceleration flattened out around 40,50mph. I tested in sport, Ludicrous and Ludicrous plus. Another issue was the regenerative braking felt non-existent. The car is in Dallas and it was around 42F outside. Regen was set to Standard. When I let of the accelerator the car would slow down just via lost inertia but then it would coast at sub 5mph. The regen wouldn't bring the car to a complete stop. Am I missing something? These are certainly red flags; my question is should I look at another identical vehicle or is this standard behavior for this car? Could you share your experience if you've driven both a Model 3 and P100D? I'm in Washington, the car I just looked at is in Dallas and there's another car in Birmingham that I might check out. Thank you for an help.

In cold weather prior to the battery warming up, the acceleration is terrible compared to after the battery is warmed up. This is true with all Tesla's but even more so in very cold temps.
When it's 70+ degrees outside, it's definitely best to warm up the battery for the strongest acceleration; however, the acceleration should still feel pretty strong even prior to warming up the battery. When it's 90+ outside, warming up the battery isn't as crucial for near max acceleration.
I currently have a plaid. When the battery is super cold (like today in the 20s,) the acceleration is night and day after the battery is warmed up. Btw, I had a 2016 P100D which I loved but you should try to find a Model S performance 'Raven' (2019-2020) which was significantly upgraded compared to the 2016-2018 P100D. Cheers

 

[islandbayy]

As others had said, Cold battery, and to a lesser degree, cold motors. Further, adding to the "FEEL" of the cars, the Model 3 is coniderably lighter weight than the Model S (Any Model S). It can make it "Feel" slower, in some instances, especially when cold, however, make no mistake, with both a M3 and MS warmed up, that MS will be a Concord to the M3's Cessna.

 

[phaphaphooey]

I went from a 2016.5 P90D to a 2022 MSP. There are numerous improvements throughout and I made a thread about it when I made the switch. Pertinent to this thread, cold weather behavior and regen are vastly improved. In all situations my Plaid regens way harder than my old P90D did, which I love. It will also regen all the way down to 0 MPH as someone else said in this thread which, again, I love. There is much less of a dropoff in acceleration/performance in cold weather on the Plaid. Finally, on my old car when outside temps got close to 50 degrees F my regen would be substantially limited until the battery really warmed up. Even in sub zero temps, I have never encountered reduced regen due to cold temps in my Plaid but I will say that my car is garaged. If it sat out all night in subzero temps that might be different.

 

[brainhouston]

max power (aka discharge current) shouldn't be limited unless its really cold n u see those dash lines at the top

i've never seen it above freezing temps..

so the only limit for legacy cars should be the SOC, due to lower voltage...
on newer cars i believe tesla compensated that with more current...

 

[brainhouston]

I went from a 2016.5 P90D to a 2022 MSP. There are numerous improvements throughout and I made a thread about it when I made the switch. Pertinent to this thread, cold weather behavior and regen are vastly improved. In all situations my Plaid regens way harder than my old P90D did, which I love. It will also regen all the way down to 0 MPH as someone else said in this thread which, again, I love. There is much less of a dropoff in acceleration/performance in cold weather on the Plaid. Finally, on my old car when outside temps got close to 50 degrees F my regen would be substantially limited until the battery really warmed up. Even in sub zero temps, I have never encountered reduced regen due to cold temps in my Plaid but I will say that my car is garaged. If it sat out all night in subzero temps that might be different.

any chance u have SMT n can see what the regen numbers are?
i wonder if newer cars/software just blends in brakes for same regen feeling or is it really handling more charge at lower temps...
i did drive a Y n really liked harder regen too.

 

[phaphaphooey]

any chance u have SMT n can see what the regen numbers are?
i wonder if newer cars/software just blends in brakes for same regen feeling or is it really handling more charge at lower temps...
i did drive a Y n really liked harder regen too.

I haven't set up SMT on my Plaid yet but I can tell you that there is an option to blend in friction braking when regen is reduced and I have that option disabled as I don't want my car to friction brake unless I tell it to. Personal preference. So my comments are solely on the regen difference I experienced in my two cars.

 

[sorka]

I agree with @brainhouston - the 1st Gen S loses a bit of acceleration as the battery discharges, unlike the new battery/motor design that launch just as hard at 10% as at 100%.

This is totally not true. Even on the MSP, power is severely reduced below 20%. There's even less power at 90% vs 100% but because there's so much power at 90% compared to earlier cars, the traction limits are in effect at higher speed.

 

[brainhouston]

yeas low SOC is understandable n needed to prevent voltage sag
i was talking about mid SOC
on my 2016 X 90D i can feel a huge diff between say 80% vs 40%
and it for sure doesn't have enough power to spin the wheels