Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MP3Mike]

Isn't CCS adapter limited to ~350A?

Nope, that is a MagicDock adapter limitation.

Here is an example of a Model S charging at ~260kW, 600A+, on CCS through the adapter:

 

[TN Mtn Man]

It is absolutely perfect for my application. Everything about it fits the role to a T. I hope it is still a good fit in two or three years when my reservation gets called out.

There is nothing about it I would want changed, other than advancement in energy density in the batteries, and they are working on that.

This. It's not the right vehicle for some people at this time-but it IS for a great many. And no vehicle is perfect for everyone. An F-350 crew cab dualie with an 8' bed is perfect for some applications-especially in wide open areas like say Montana or Wyoming, towing a big trailer or hauling P/U camper or big load of construction material or firewood. In an urban/suburban parking lot, or even suburban driveway? Not so much. CT will meet the needs of many people in it's current configurations, and be an absolute technological showpiece. For those of us that it doesn't quite suit, rather over price, limited DEFC infrastructure or lack of bed space, well, again-what vehicle does suit everyone? I expect it will evolve over time and address more needs. Certainly the DCFC infrastructure will.

 

[jerry33]

Occasionally is not "at least" once a year. It's "on average" once or twice a year.

4x for me. Camping not towing.

 

[elasalle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730594714007523753

 

[EVNow]

Occasionally is at least once a year, and that pairs with the many once a year trips we and many others take. We take those trips seriously and we will cover between 7,000 and 11,000 miles on a trip so they are not short trips. That is 36% of truck owners. The bureau of transportation says we have 48 million pickups on the roads so that is 17 million who tow at least annually. People that have horses and go to horse shows may only do it once or twice a year. But when they go they typically go long distances. While I hate having a gasser, we do have a plug-in hybrid for our towing as that is not yet reasonable for EVs. Assuming you like to camp in National Parks and National Forest as we do.

Question is - if you do something rarely (once or twice a year) - is it bette to rent than buy. Afterall we “rent” airline seats to travel since buying a jet is beyond most of our means.

It is clear from a lot of reporting that truck ownership is more a life style choice rather than for utility.

CT ownership will continue to be that. We buy CT not for utility but what it represents. A Model Y will perfectly work for us instead

 

[dhrivnak]

Question is - if you do something rarely (once or twice a year) - is it bette to rent than buy. Afterall we “rent” airline seats to travel since buying a jet is beyond most of our means.

It is clear from a lot of reporting that truck ownership is more a life style choice rather than for utility.

CT ownership will continue to be that. We buy CT not for utility but what it represents. A Model Y will perfectly work for us instead

Renting a full sized pickup for hauling your trailer is not something I have ever seen, I take it you do not own a camper nor do you show horses or other such hobby.

 

[EVNow]

Renting a full sized pickup for hauling your trailer is not something I have ever seen, I take it you do not own a camper nor do you show horses or other such hobby.

Neither do most of truck owners. That is my point.

I see full size pickup trucks for rent - so, obviously something people rent ?

 

[WattsHappening]

And who ever thought the saving grace of a Tesla vehicle would be... "in time it might improve to the point that it is useful." Right now it is exactly what I never would agree with before the reveal. Many people (evidently) smarter than me said it would be a symbol of snobbery. I argued with them that it would be many things to many people. I mean come on Elon had a big canvas. I didn't know he would ignore the huge "trunk". And that is what it is. It is a trunk with a silly accordion door on it.

Enough already. You're not happy, we get it.

Please stop with your incessant whining and move on.

 

[30seconds]

I like the cybertruck & leaning towards getting one as a 4 passenger truck would be pretty useful for me.

As an investor I really don't see that stainless was worth the added manufacturing weight, cost and ramp issues. It isn't clear to me of how much is gained by having the exterior shell provide crash impact vs. larger body with more traditional stamped steel / aluminum.

 

[TN Mtn Man]

Question is - if you do something rarely (once or twice a year) - is it bette to rent than buy. Afterall we “rent” airline seats to travel since buying a jet is beyond most of our means.

It is clear from a lot of reporting that truck ownership is more a life style choice rather than for utility.

CT ownership will continue to be that. We buy CT not for utility but what it represents. A Model Y will perfectly work for us instead

The same can be said for any vehicle purchase. A Toyota Corolla will get you to your destination as well as a Model S-and do it for $22k. If you need a bigger vehicle for those long family trips, just rent it, right? The point is we all buy vehicles as a "lifestyle choice"-if we didn't Tesla wouldn't be in business. We buy because the vehicle meets our individual needs AND WANTS. A pickup is more comfortable that most cars-you don't have to bend over/duck to get in one (especially a factor for us older people). You have room in it and aren't cramped and bumping shoulders with your passenger. Plenty of room for "stuff" for a road trip. Plenty of room for that monthly Costco run, let alone trip to Lowes or HD for building or lawn materials. P/Us do have downsides-suburban parking lots are a biggie, and something CT addresses with RWS. Not to mention fuel economy-again something CT addresses. Other than those issues-why would anyone choose a car over a truck as a daily driver?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Rivian R1T Dual Motor is rated at 345 Wh/mi

No it isn't. That's what a model X is, approximately.

Cybertruck is rated at 429 Wh/mi, with the many aero mods

And that's about what the dual motor Rivian R1T is at. Ford Lightning slightly higher. Quad motor R1T is around 480:

At any rate, to your larger point, yes, comparing these kind of specs, the R1T and the CT are very similar.

But the R1T doesn't have an ultrahard stainless steel body, nor 9.6 kW offtake power (plus 11.5 kW via NACS), silky smooth steer by wire with adaptive steering ratios, rear wheel turning, a powered tonneau cover that works, FSD, Supercharger network, and did I mention how it looks?

Rivian did get a big stock boost today, and they should have, because you can buy (or lease) an R1T today, whereas you have to wait 2+ years for a CT if you order one now. And given the similar specs (price, range), it means a lot of people who were waiting to see what the CT was all about, can now order an R1T and still get a fine EV. But this isn't a knock against Tesla. Tesla will continue selling lots of CTs, and will make more money than Rivian doing so.

Onto Model 2!

 

[EVNow]

The same can be said for any vehicle purchase. A Toyota Corolla will get you to your destination as well as a Model S-and do it for $22k. If you need a bigger vehicle for those long family trips, just rent it, right? The point is we all buy vehicles as a "lifestyle choice"-if we didn't Tesla wouldn't be in business.

Correct. It is a lifestyle choice (or status or trying to project a particular image of themselves etc).

None of those are affected by whether it can be used to toe something once a year .... or may be it does. Do people feel let down that they can't brag about the shiny new EV truck they got - but couldn't bring it to the horse show .... ? Purely in terms of practicality I don't see a problem in renting for one trip a year (or two).

 

[jerry33]

I like the cybertruck & leaning towards getting one as a 4 passenger truck would be pretty useful for me.

As an investor I really don't see that stainless was worth the added manufacturing weight, cost and ramp issues. It isn't clear to me of how much is gained by having the exterior shell provide crash impact vs. larger body with more traditional stamped steel / aluminum.

Any new vehicle will have ramp issues. I think the jury is out on whether the stamped steel can provide more crash protection. It does certainly provide more protection against annoying dents. Also in many areas larger vehicles have issues with narrow roads and parking. Ideally the stainless steel shell could reduce the amount of material used and lead to a longer vehicle life than the standard really thin metal construction.

 

[Mengy]

Sooo, any speculation on

1. How many CT’s they have built

2. How many per week they are currently building.

Cheers.

I'll bet they have made around 200 CT's so far (with many shipping around to showrooms currently), and are at around 100 per week production rate right now, but ramping quickly.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Nah. If you order one now then there is no way you are getting it in 2023. Too many in line in front of you. I think that's all it means.

And 2024 is optimistic. I bet if you order now you aren't getting your CT until 2025 unless you order the Cyberbeast.

If you order now, you will not get it in 2025 regardless of the model. I ordered a Tri and a Dual about a month after the unveil and I think '25 is the earliest I might get one. Probably '26.

 

[Todd Burch]

Would have been cool to see an electronic-display mirror option for the typical mounting location.

Why? The rear view is up all the time on the screen (maybe only when tonneau is closed?) and local to what you’re looking at onscreen already. Why would showing the rear view way up at the top of the windshield be cool?

Cybertruck’s approach seems different, not worse. It’s certainly cheaper and means less to go wrong.

 

[elasalle]

I'll bet they have made around 200 CT's so far (with many shipping around to showrooms currently), and are at around 100 per week production rate right now, but ramping quickly.

The Q4 delivery number are gonna have CT numbers right?

 

[TN Mtn Man]

Correct. It is a lifestyle choice (or status or trying to project a particular image of themselves etc).

None of those are affected by whether it can be used to toe something once a year .... or may be it does. Do people feel let down that they can't brag about the shiny new EV truck they got - but couldn't bring it to the horse show .... ? Purely in terms of practicality I don't see a problem in renting for one trip a year (or two).

Fair enough, and true enough. Others might not-in which case this isn't the right vehicle for them. No one vehicle is right for everyone-that's why we have choices. I don't see any EV replacing an F-350 diesel if you travel and live out of say a 40' 5th wheel, like a fair number of retirees do. Nor should it-pick the right tool for the job. An F-150 or Silverado 1500 isn't the right tool for that either. I expect the CT will be the right tool for a great many people because it does many (not all) things very well-things the vast majority of P/U owners use their rig for. And will be better than any other vehicle for those people. Lets face it-not THAT many people haul horse trailers-and depending on how many horses they are hauling, and how far, CT could still be fine. Would be nice for the horses not to suck gas/diesel fumes all day.

Can't wait to see how it plays out over the next couple of years. Especially as DCFC infrastructure builds out.

 

[Tim S]

If you order now, you will not get it in 2025 regardless of the model. I ordered a Tri and a Dual about a month after the unveil and I think '25 is the earliest I might get one. Probably '26.

Order now, delivery in 2024...

 

[Usain]

Except that CT does 350kw charge rate on V4

Yeah. He fixed that already. He's been getting lots of feedback and improving his chart. Very nice!