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Don't let my numbers affect your decision to own the vehicle. I drive the hell out of my car, probably use up the most KW per mile than any other owner. And as Johan mentioned, if you drive it hard, the current limiter will kick in so you actually can't drain it as fast as I did. However.. if you do a lot of stop and go, sprints around the city which.. I don't condone.. you can. Out of my 10 months of ownership, 22000 miles, I have went thru over 4 sets of tires and probably was on a mission to see how fast I can drain the entire battery pack.. lol.. range anxiety? nah... I also managed a top speed of 135 mph which .. I don't think anyone has achieved neither.. it's either 133 or 134 mph.. anyways enough about me :)

I also forgot to add.. stop and go with full throttle sucks up a lot of energy.. moving a vehicle that heavy from a stop at full acceleration takes a lot of kilowatt.. I'm not an electrical engineer so I can't calculate how much but it's A LOT of power. I've even got both my front brakes to smoke... =X..

Actually now that I'm thinking about that one drive cycle.. I think it was 90% charge in around 65 miles.. my average watt hour per mile was over 800.. I gotta find the picture on my phone.. even if you drive 80-100+ mph your averaging probably 450 wh/mile.

Larry
Your own description indicates your a danger to yourself and others. I also don't see anyone in this thread mention the safety profile of the model s
 
Your own description indicates your a danger to yourself and others. I also don't see anyone in this thread mention the safety profile of the model s

No disrespect but trust me, I know and I knew someone was bound to post that. There's a term for that too... anyways my post was simply talking about the limit of the vehicle in term of energy usage, not morals or laws anything. If it makes you feel any better driving fast is one thing, being reckless and endangering people and property is another. I may be driving top speed on the freeway but with a straight open road, no one around, and not dashing in and out of lanes.. the only thing I'm breaking is the law and that's my personal choice, simple fact.

Larry
 
I can't understand the person who registers on a tesla motors club forum, which is predominately people who believe in BEV enough to have or want the car or stock, and pronounce it crap. Beyond troll, apparently a masochist troll. Also wrong, markets speak with sales.
 
To the op - I think there's about 50k owners that would disagree with you. As a very high mileage (57k miles) and very long distance daily commuter , I've encountered no problems at all with regards to range or charging or places to charge etc. while everybody wouldn't mind more possible range on single charge, 265 is definitely enough, especially for high mileage drivers such as myself.
 
I can't understand the person who registers on a tesla motors club forum, which is predominately people who believe in BEV enough to have or want the car or stock, and pronounce it crap. Beyond troll, apparently a masochist troll. Also wrong, markets speak with sales.

What? It's a good discussion and OP has some valid, well presented points. I don't agree with OP, because Models S works for me. But I like to see the discussion.
 
When porc gets his driver license he can go take a test drive at Tesla and see firsthand what all this irrational exuberance is about. Maybe get to drive a p85D! :smile:
--

He cannot actually as one must be 25 or have proof that your networth would allow for you to afford the car.. Based on these sweet sweet facts he is coming up with I would doubt he meets either criteria.
 
What? It's a good discussion and OP has some valid, well presented points. I don't agree with OP, because Models S works for me. But I like to see the discussion.

This Tesla Motors Club - EV enthusiast forum. Why come here, create an account and start this thread???

He says things that are either 1) wrong or 2) irrelevant.
 
Porc, a car, to be successful, needs to attract a big enough market that the business is profitable.
It doesn't need to meet the needs of 100% of the market, no vehicle does that now.

There is enough of a market now so that Tesla can remain profitable. The introduction of the Model X and Model 3 will both expand that market.

For those that want to spend their fuel money on noise and waste heat, there are tons of choices out there. For those that want instant response and unmatched acceleration, there are a few EVs.
But you know what?... There will be more:wink:
 
Guys,

Why assume the worst about porc, and immediately jump into ad hominem attacks? Maybe is a newbie, interested in EV tech, but doesn't know about how well it works yet? This is pretty common among the ICE-driving masses. It is our job to inform others. If we do, some will buy an EV sooner instead of later. Or, maybe he is a troll, just trying to get us riled up and waste our time. But why not give him the benefit of the doubt? Some of the more interesting discussion and valuable information has come from members like Realist, who bravely continued to engage us at TMC despite repeated attacks (including some poorly chosen words from myself).

Perhaps we should all read the "what happened to TMC" thread, and start welcoming newcomers. At least wait unit they prove themselves to be trolls before bashing them.

GSP
 
The troll didn't even mention coal, and he's apparently German. Wow. I can confidently say troll, because some of the arguments are very poorly considered, and some basic research would show that they are not significant market barriers. Also, when people join a site and their first post is opinion and not inquiry or introduction it's a good trolling sign.

As the market evolves it'll be an interesting exercise to go back and see how Tesla and other new BEVs have affected anti-BEV trolling. Do one of those time line graphs to see when each point starts and stops.
 
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My favorite question from EV skeptics is "you can't drive across the country in an EV", of course now you can with superchargers. But even so I would ask off they ever drove their car across the country and the answer is always no.

I have driven across the country in previous ICE vehicles, but for most people it is rare if it ever even occurs. Why is are skeptics so caught on never events when the daily benefits of EVS are so many.

My Model S is in the body shop. So I borrowed my parents old SUV, and the battery died. Yes, I know the irony. I then got a rental but there was only 1/4 tank and as it was running low, I started getting range anxiety because I was trying to figure out in my head the closest/cheapest gas station. Can't wait to get my S back so I can go back to "filling" up at home and know the price of my fill up every time (and it's always cheap)
 
No disrespect but trust me, I know and I knew someone was bound to post that. There's a term for that too... anyways my post was simply talking about the limit of the vehicle in term of energy usage, not morals or laws anything. If it makes you feel any better driving fast is one thing, being reckless and endangering people and property is another. I may be driving top speed on the freeway but with a straight open road, no one around, and not dashing in and out of lanes.. the only thing I'm breaking is the law and that's my personal choice, simple fact.

Larry
You are kidding yourself. Have heard arguments like yours from others who cannot see situation. Like a doctor stealing narcotic premeds, shooting them up and then doing the procedure. His defense "I am so good My patients don't need the medication"
 
Actually now that I'm thinking about that one drive cycle.. I think it was 90% charge in around 65 miles.. my average watt hour per mile was over 800.. I gotta find the picture on my phone.. even if you drive 80-100+ mph your averaging probably 450 wh/mile.
At the other end of the scale my Wh/mi is 252 over 32K+ miles. It takes all kinds. Trips are just not a problem, and they get better each time as more Superchargers come online.
 
Guys,

Why assume the worst about porc, and immediately jump into ad hominem attacks? Maybe is a newbie, interested in EV tech, but doesn't know about how well it works yet? This is pretty common among the ICE-driving masses. It is our job to inform others. If we do, some will buy an EV sooner instead of later. Or, maybe he is a troll, just trying to get us riled up and waste our time. But why not give him the benefit of the doubt? Some of the more interesting discussion and valuable information has come from members like Realist, who bravely continued to engage us at TMC despite repeated attacks (including some poorly chosen words from myself).

Perhaps we should all read the "what happened to TMC" thread, and start welcoming newcomers. At least wait unit they prove themselves to be trolls before bashing them.

GSP

this forum is a massive treasure chest of knowledge. I totally respect someone who digs in, reads, learns, then puts out a point of view, even if I disagree. I also totally respect someone who is humble enough to couch their view as an opinion vs fact. So, yes I may be harsh with OP but the post displays little research or humility.
 
At the other end of the scale my Wh/mi is 252 over 32K+ miles. It takes all kinds. Trips are just not a problem, and they get better each time as more Superchargers come online.
It does take all kinds and I consider myself a libertarian BUT driving is a matter of trust that the OTHER driver will act in a responsible manner and have not only their safety but yours in mind as well
 
Guys, the moderators are reviewing the situation. The thread topic is not about whether the OP is a troll or not, so please limit discussion to the merits of the original premise. Discussions about whether an individual is a troll or not is at the very least off-topic.

Thanks
 
Cars have one core function: Effective Transport.

Ok..

With effective I mean: Transport me from A to B in the least amount of time with the least amounts of resources consumed.

Ok, I see where your going... +1 for electrics then....

Teslas cars are at their weakest at exactly that core function: They have limited range, a high price tag and take a long time to recharge.

Hmm... So this is where I loose you. All cars have limited range. You still need to put fuel in your ICE every 200 to 300 miles. There are expensive ICE cars too, somebody buys them. Teslas take a long time to charge when you charge at home and from a fully depleted battery, but not that long. They can be easily charged to full from depletion in the space of an evening to be ready the next day. The recharging time is significantly better at a supercharger. But your thinking too much with an ICE perspective. Can you fill up your ICE at home? I am sure if you paid enough you could have someone deliver fuel to your home, but why bother. You still need to spend 5 to 10 mins or more driving out of your way to go buy a dirty fuel every 200 to 300 miles you put in your car. With an electric you spend 10-15 seconds or less fueling your vehicle every day (the time it takes to plug it in). That is an incredibly improved fueling experience that most BEV critics have a hard time understanding.
How often do you drive over 200 miles a day? For most people, rarely. That means when you most practically use your vehicle, 99% of the miles you go A to B, your ICE fueling method is hugely at a disadvantage, always taking your time 5 to 10 minutes or more every 200 miles. So your arguing that ICE vehicles are so much better because 99% of the time they have a inferior fuel efficiency and inferior fueling system? And that 1% of miles that makes it supposedly easier to get from A to B makes it all worth it?



1) If you take 296 miles, you have to knock off 10% for battery degradation, and up to 30% if you want to drive at 80 mph, with less than ideal weather and an uphill road.

That leaves you with about 178 miles.

Exactly, even with incredibly crappy weather, going up hill, battery degraded and driving fast, your Tesla will have plenty of range to take care of your daily driving needs and get from supercharger to supercharger on long distance trips.

2) You will have to recharge for about 30 min for 50% or 1 hour or more for 100%.

On the supercharger highway you mean? Usually no need to charge for more than 50% or half hour. Perfect time needed to fuel and refresh your body for 2 hours more of driving on a long trip.

3) Most cars are parked curbside, so for most people there is 0 infrastructure in cities.

This is where BEV have the biggest hurdle. But look at it this way, we have this old ICE fueling infrastructure that's taken a hundred years to mature and fully develop. It's dirty. It requires these ghastly polluting fuel refinery's to make. Big stinky trucks to ship it to gas station to gas station. And someone with their hand out to take your money before they give you any.

Electricity can be cleanly and efficiently transported hundreds of miles through wires that don't need to move. We have already spent the money and have the need for this infrastructure. It's not going away. It can be powered by renewable resources and not limited to fossil fuels. The biggest challenge is getting the last 5 feet from the pole to the car. For a huge chunk of the population, that last 5 feet of access is already there. The only challenge is getting to the rest.

Electric cars are a long way away from overtaking ICE cars.

Of course that is true. Even if every car sold today was a BEV, it would take decades.



For this to happen, in my humble opinion Elon Musk needs to achieve the following:

1) Increase range by 100%
2) Decreases total costs of ownership by 50% (35.000 dollar car)
3) Decrease charging times by at least 50%

A 200 EPA rated mile, 35.000 dollar car misses the mark, as many gasoline cars have greater functionality (range, refuel times, infrastructure) at the same or better total cost of ownership. It would have to be a 450 mile EPA Rated car and charging times would need to plummet by 50% for the EV revolution to gain traction.

The EV revolution has already started to gain traction, thanks to Tesla. These things may be needed to address 100% of the car market, but we are a long way from needing to do that. The manufacturing is going to take time to scale up. Tesla is already going as fast as it reasonable can. The improvements in technology will scale up along with the scale of manufacturing. Gen3 or Model 3 is just one step in that process.