Tesla-Great electrical and mechanical engineers but poor interior and function design

[ev-now]

As a software developer, I am surprised to see you make such a statement--the road to project hell is paved with "simple projects that a couple of developers can knock out."

True, but well focused, well managed very small team do amazing things.

It seems to me, also from the software industry, that the problem is more in the QA process than anything. Surely basic testing would detect these problems before release - so it seems that the focus of the QA regression process does not include driver experience, at least to the degree that it should.
Running lean (presumably) is costing the company in perceived stability and functionality - and that is not "good enough" to my mind. The number one complaint on some Ford models over two years was the Microsoft infotainment system - that means this functionality is actually a high priority for many drivers.

But hey, if the cash burns out trying to get the X out the door, the rest doesn't matter much.

I think non-core functionality (i.e. not the driving experience and safety) could and should be outsourced, albeit the nav needs to understand range and availability of superchargers - so clearly any nav integration would be more than just use product X from company Y.

I wonder whether the drive for Insane and Ludicrous is what is costing valuable resource - which would be a shame as I read too many people here who are already blown away by an S85 ... so those modes are really aiming at the long tail of drivers.

 

[danni]

Could you supply a source for Tesla buying their navigation system that routes you hundreds of miles out of the way to visit unnecessary Superchargers, including sending you back away from your destination, from an outside company? Even if they did, I still thinkg that releasing it in its current form is indicative of a company without any commitment to quality in their software department.

As has been pointed out, the software that does the actual navigation and routing (and uses the instrument cluster to display information) is from Navigon while the Google maps based system for showing the large map and choosing destinations is Tesla's own. Just google "tesla navigon" and you'll find plenty of mentions of this.

 

[Gynob001]

Poor over worked, underpaid software engineers....

The average salary for a Tesla SW engineer is ~$115K, so that 5-10 dev team is a $800K-$1.7M investment which is sizable for a startup, especially for a feature that will not really help the company move more cars (few is any buyers make their primary buying decision based on the nav SW). On the other hand, I am sure the folks anxiously awaiting autopilot features would really rather have those 5-10 engineers work on getting AP out the door.

Perhaps, Tesla should collaborate with other companies who have better navigation. autopilot, telephone, voice control systems instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. At one point, customers like me are going to ask, why develop a another car, while the current model needs better fitted with accessories and functionalities.
Is beating all other cars in drag racing the objectives of the company? I bought a Tesla for its technology, economy, environment friendly technology etc, not for its drag racing capabilities or horse power.
When I have to pay hundreds of dollars more for a center console or a coffee cup holder, or use my phone for navigation, it doesn't speak well of Tesla technology.
If the 100K SW. engineers can't deliver better or even existing technology, it doesn't speak well of the SW profession. Would they do a better job for 150K? 200K?
I am sure, when Tesla has a better SW, they are going to charge of an upgrade or put it in their newer models.

 

[artsci]

The NAV has gotten worse since Elon pronounced "no more range anxiety".

There's never even been a scale on it.

You cannot drag a route to bypass stuff.

And worse of all ... try going from Supercharger A to B when you have plenty of reserve ... it insists you do a U turn til about halfway thinking you don't have the range.

While I'd "never" buy a different brand again, there comes a time when a product that gets worse over time, you eventually throw in the towel. Long way to go.

Met a guy on the road the other day during a cross country trip ... he told us that he uses his phone for NAV. Sad.

You're talking about the beta trip planner. It's clearly labeled on the touchscreen as a beta. No one forces you to use it -- that's why it's labeled a beta. I turned it off and have none of the problems you've described.

 

[freeewilly]

At least we can complaint about Tesla software, and HOPE the next upgrade have the improvements we wants.

I stopped using my 2013 BMW NAV, the map is outdated and sure don't want to pay $200 for the update. +1 on Waze, I use it more often.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

unfair? Is it fair to charge 100K when they are not ready with the product? At this point, the thrill is gone.

Not true in my case. While I would appreciate improvement of core functions like navigation, the thrill is very much alive as witnessed by my unrelenting desire to find excuses to drive my 2013 P85. It's an absolute thrill and always will be.

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...and now a thread complaining about Tesla software? I guess you guys forgot how every other car manufacturer's software is complete ****.

So we should be happy with everything as-is just because the other guys suck? That's an incredibly low bar, don't you think?

 

[kushari]

To be honest, for a company that's only been producing cars for such a little time, with so much game changing everything, and such high quality interior (almost German standard) I haven't seen another American car Manufacturer come close. If you look at how far they've come since the Roadster, I'd say these are small things that they will have ironed out in a few years. I'm OK with them having these little issues. I'm focused on the big picture now.

- - - Updated - - -

Not true in my case. While I would appreciate improvement of core functions like navigation, the thrill is very much alive as witnessed by my unrelenting desire to find excuses to drive my 2013 P85. It's an absolute thrill and always will be.

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So we should be happy with everything as-is just because the other guys suck? That's an incredibly low bar, don't you think?

No, but at the same time you have to understand bandwidth. When you're working on more important things, the less important things don't get looked after as fast. Nothing is perfect.

 

[AWDtsla]

unfair? Is it fair to charge 100K when they are not ready with the product? At this point, the thrill is gone.

I think the only thing that's happened is with the new upgraded cars is we've crossed the pricing threshold from "I would never normally buy a car that expensive, but given what Tesla is doing it's totally worth it" to... well I'll let your imagination fill that in, but remember that kid that set his 2011 458 Ferrari on fire because it wasn't as cool as the 2014 one?

 

[omarsultan]

True, but well focused, well managed very small team do amazing things.

It seems to me, also from the software industry, that the problem is more in the QA process than anything. Surely basic testing would detect these problems before release - so it seems that the focus of the QA regression process does not include driver experience, at least to the degree that it should.
Running lean (presumably) is costing the company in perceived stability and functionality - and that is not "good enough" to my mind. The number one complaint on some Ford models over two years was the Microsoft infotainment system - that means this functionality is actually a high priority for many drivers.

But hey, if the cash burns out trying to get the X out the door, the rest doesn't matter much.

I think non-core functionality (i.e. not the driving experience and safety) could and should be outsourced, albeit the nav needs to understand range and availability of superchargers - so clearly any nav integration would be more than just use product X from company Y.

I wonder whether the drive for Insane and Ludicrous is what is costing valuable resource - which would be a shame as I read too many people here who are already blown away by an S85 ... so those modes are really aiming at the long tail of drivers.

Pretty much agree with everything you said, especially what small teams can accomplish. I think the interesting point is if Tesla considers Nav to be core functionality or ancillary functionality. My guess is that with the advent of autopilot and some of the other things Elon has mentioned, they feel the Nav, or at least the backend is something core that they want to own and control.

 

[DonL]

A question of priorities

I have become a little weary of Tesla software updates. They are marginal increments of Navigation, mostly new chargers, charging routes, quickest way to charging stations etc.
Why are simple features (alternate routes, avoid toll roads, etc) that are available even in the cheapest GPS gadgets not available for Model S. I love my Model S but I think Tesla is not listening to some of its customers.
My previous Lincoln MKZ or Lexus ES300 had better navigation, voice control, telephone features.
Tesla is a great car but when you pay close to 100K, gizmos and gadgets are important too, in addition to the need for speed.

The Lincoln and Lexus marques have been out for quite some time and they've had time for what we in the SW field sometimes call "creeping excellence." Tesla is implementing things as fast as they can while maintaining software stability--that's a tightrope that isn't easy to walk. I, for one, would prefer that the software be solid than be new-feature rich and buggy. Sometimes you can't have both.

 

[GreenT]

You're talking about the beta trip planner. It's clearly labeled on the touchscreen as a beta. No one forces you to use it -- that's why it's labeled a beta. I turned it off and have none of the problems you've described.

Ok, you had me go check ... and nowhere on my screen does it say BETA.
I click on Nav, then click Places.
Click on a Supercharger hundreds of miles away. No where do I see BETA that I could turn off. Please explain?

 

[sataponw]

The option in the navigation app setting

Ok, you had me go check ... and nowhere on my screen does it say BETA.
I click on Nav, then click Places.
Click on a Supercharger hundreds of miles away. No where do I see BETA that I could turn off. Please explain?

 

[ev-now]

My guess is that with the advent of autopilot and some of the other things Elon has mentioned, they feel the Nav, or at least the backend is something core that they want to own and control.

Good point.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I am not sure if I have seen this anywhere in any car company yet. But one feature I would like to have on my next car is:

1) I get in the car.
2) I place my phone on a clamp mount with screen facing toward the window shield to provide speedometer feedback via heads up display
3) phone automatically charges via induction
4) phone automatically unlocks once I turn on the car
5) phone's screen is replicated on a huge screen on the dash as well as to my speedo console so driver can see the screen.
6) I can use the side dash and swipe and select apps and what exactly as I would do on my phone but just with a much larger screen. Since the screen is replicated in the speedo dash also, I don't have to take my eyes off the screen. I just see what my swipes and selection shows. Maybe also it shows where my fingers are located also as i place them close to the screen.

7) Once i arrive at my destination, I just pop off phone and go.

I am not sure if I am describing apple's car play or google car play. But my point is in this day and age, there is no need to have custom Nav/UI music, etc software running on the car's computer. Just make it run off the phone. I use my phone everyday so I know how to use it when it's in the car provided it's replicated on the side dash screen. The touch interface should be EXACTLY the same as if I was using on the phone so I don't have to learn a totally new interface. This way tesla doesn't have to design any of the UI. It's already done by google or Apple in their software. Why hire expensive engineers when someone else is already paying them to design something superior for you?

This goes for other car manufactures too not just Tesla.

 

[ev-now]

I use my phone everyday so I know how to use it when it's in the car provided it's replicated on the side dash screen. The touch interface should be EXACTLY the same as if I was using on the phone so I don't have to learn a totally new interface. This way tesla doesn't have to design any of the UI.

Totally agree with the concept of the phone being the 'brain' for the infotainment, after all it will get upgraded more regularly and is entirely isolated from the critical systems on the car. Second or replicated screen is exactly what I suggested elsewhere.
Not sure about all the swipe and action stuff. Even with the minor eye adjustment to look at the speedo vs the road, it's still not being focused on the road. I personally want everything to be voice-controlled in the car.

"Adjust temperature to 72"
"Windshield wipers fast"
"Roof 80%"

The voice response on my Android gets things right a good %age of the time, and clearly the core functions are going to either be manual (driving), assisted or autonomous - so I am not advocating "Turn Left .... I mean Right!!!!! #$%^#$% Brake!!!!"

Until the car is in full autonomous mode, I think the less people are tempted to multi-task, the better. And once the car is driving, you can just use your tablet, laptop, phone, whatever - no need for a gigantic monitor/screen for the car then.

 

[GreenT]

The option in the navigation app setting

Thanks for heads up. See that and have turned it off.
BUT ... so turning it off still enables route planning but an earlier version of the app?
Have to see the difference.

 

[artsci]

Thanks for heads up. See that and have turned it off.
BUT ... so turning it off still enables route planning but an earlier version of the app?
Have to see the difference.

There is no route planning with it turned off. Until a final version that works reliably is developed what I do is search for Superchargers along my intended route that are within the current available range of the car. Easy to do and works like a charm. That's what I did on my drive to California and back for TMC Connect.

The beta in its current form is a disaster.

 

[taurusking]

I am not sure if I have seen this anywhere in any car company yet. But one feature I would like to have on my next car is:

1) I get in the car.
2) I place my phone on a clamp mount with screen facing toward the window shield to provide speedometer feedback via heads up display
3) phone automatically charges via induction
4) phone automatically unlocks once I turn on the car
5) phone's screen is replicated on a huge screen on the dash as well as to my speedo console so driver can see the screen.
6) I can use the side dash and swipe and select apps and what exactly as I would do on my phone but just with a much larger screen. Since the screen is replicated in the speedo dash also, I don't have to take my eyes off the screen. I just see what my swipes and selection shows. Maybe also it shows where my fingers are located also as i place them close to the screen.

7) Once i arrive at my destination, I just pop off phone and go.

I am not sure if I am describing apple's car play or google car play. But my point is in this day and age, there is no need to have custom Nav/UI music, etc software running on the car's computer. Just make it run off the phone. I use my phone everyday so I know how to use it when it's in the car provided it's replicated on the side dash screen. The touch interface should be EXACTLY the same as if I was using on the phone so I don't have to learn a totally new interface. This way tesla doesn't have to design any of the UI. It's already done by google or Apple in their software. Why hire expensive engineers when someone else is already paying them to design something superior for you?

This goes for other car manufactures too not just Tesla.

All good points