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Canuck
Well-Known Member
That's obvious? I went to the bank, got a bank draft, then went and picked up my vehicle. If it was damaged, I could have deposited it back the same day without handing the cheque over. I thought most people did that. I was surprised to learn he had wired the money, when he said he did that, many pages into this thread.
I think you owe Bonnie an apology.
What? Of course it's negligence. I can't imagine a scenario where a vehicle hits a pole and there is no negligence. There is the "inevitable accident" defence for black ice, but I doubt there's any ice in Florida this time of year. Or maybe lightening struck the pole and it broke and fell on the vehicle? We can't rule out negligence because it was negligence that caused the damage.
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TomServo
Active Member
I assume this vehicle will be sold as an INVENTORY car and the damage revealed? I wonder how much of a discount they will offer?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
No necessarily. If Florida has the same laws as California Vehicle Code 9990 which says damage to components that are bolted or attached to the vehicle, such as bumpers, tires and glass are exempt from the 3% disclosure requirement only if replaced with identical new, original manufacture’s components-unless the repairs exceed 10% of the manufacture’s suggested price. So if the bumper replacement is not counted, and the rest of the repairs can be done for about $3,600 (wholesale cost based on $120k vehicle) then no disclosure is required. I'd bet it won't be disclosed or Tesla likely would have sold it to the OP for the $5 to 10k less he was seeking.
Do you think they'll disclose this to the person they sell it to?
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Agreed, I doubt they disclose it.
My apology request was not directed at bonnie, it was in a completely different message addressing other posters. My response was to Gra55h0pper and ecarfan whose replies both came after Kingside's #145 where he tells of wiring the money.
Just because TMC's forum software automatically combined my response to them in #160 with my later reply bonnie's message doesn't make that part about bonnie at all. My response to bonnie, of course, was about the real thread topic - semantics.
I wasn't there, so I'll gladly give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I understand negligence as, to quote something wiser, "failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances". I don't consider any accident or mistake as necessarily negligent, so as I wasn't there and I don't know what exactly happened, I felt no need to claim anything exact. No need to read anything more into my comment. I don't even know if it was Tesla (or a delivery company) moving the car, so I don't know who to point fingers at. If you feel negligence by Tesla in this case is a sure thing, I don't feel any need to argue though.
But of course, this thread - like so many others - long ago stopped being about anything other than mere semantics.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Point taken. I missed the part about the negligence being directed only at Tesla. You are correct in stating that it could have been negligence by someone other than Tesla. Sorry about that.
steve841
Active Member
Well, I checked in on this thread early on...
And what eats at me is: Backup camera and (presumably) backup sensors.
What kind of moron hits anything with all these countermeasures? That person should not be behind the wheel of any car.
And what eats at me is: Backup camera and (presumably) backup sensors.
What kind of moron hits anything with all these countermeasures? That person should not be behind the wheel of any car.
Electricfan
Active Member
I never attacked you, just said basically what John McEnroe is famous for saying "you cannot be serious!".
Why do I disagree? If a dealer lies to the customer about wrecking a car the dealer is representing as new? That's what I'm talking about - is that what you're talking about? In my post I said it doesn't matter if its a dealer or a private party. Why would it be ok for a dealer to misrepresent (lie, by another name) something to a buyer but not for a private party? Or is that what you're saying? I have the feeling we're not communicating.
Let me make a simple statement, and you tell me if you agree or disagree, ok?
Here's my statement:
Any party who is selling a car to someone and does not disclose the fact that the car has been wrecked, after having been asked directly if it has, is a liar.
Agree?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
There's not enough information for me to answer. I need your definition of "wrecked"? In other words, how much damage must be done before we call it "wrecked"?
That's what the legislation is for. It's unreasonable to assume that cars from the factory won't require some repairs before they are sold. How much is acceptable without telling the purchaser? If a side view mirror is broken and replaced is that "wrecked"? If not, what if the mirror and its housing are smashed off, are now we at the "wrecked" stage? What about buffing out paint overspray? One dealer lot in town had all their cars over sprayed when a building was painted next door. Some cars had to have all plastic parts removed and replaced since the buffed out paint left marks. Others, further away, only need a small buffing out. Which ones are "wrecked"?
All I am saying is a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere to define what damage must be disclosed and I agree where the legislation has drawn that line.
Are you for no line at all? If so, how do we deal with this issue. Doesn't not having a line leave it up to the discretion of the dealer making us much worse off?
So here's the latest update:
I spoke to Tesla again today and this is the deal they ultimately proposed:
1) I don't have to take delivery of the car. In this case they will refund me the initial $1650 transport fee, my initial deposit, and the money I wired. In effect, this would mean I don't take a loss on this except my time. They will NOT pay for an Enterprise rental car in the meantime while I look for another car (not a Tesla).
2) I can get a brand new Tesla that I configure that will be delivered in about 1 month. In the meantime they will give me a luxury class rental from Enterprise. They will also pay me for the initial $1650 transport fee and give me $2500 credit towards accessories or service checks.
3) I can order another inventory Tesla in or out of region. They will give me a rental car until I get it. They will also comp me $1650 which was my initial transport fee and give me $2500 credit towards accessories or shipping an out of area inventory car.
4) I can take delivery of the damaged car after it's repaired in 2 weeks. They will pay for a luxury Enterprise rental and waive the $1650 transport fee. I'm unclear if they would also give me $2500 credit, I will need to follow up to ask.
Overall it's good that Tesla came to these terms, but let me tell you I had to negotiate very hard for them to move the line at all and give me a credit and pay for my initial transport fee. I'm happy they finally did consent to this and reimbursement of my initial transport fee (which, by the way, was not disclosed to me prior to sale, although I understand this mistake because they thought I was taking delivery in region).
Anyway, I'll make my final decision tomorrow. Most likely, I'm not going to move forward with getting a Tesla.
I think their final proposal is fair, but like I said, their initial offer was only a $1200 service credit. It took me days of negotiating. I'm kind of tired on this whole ordeal and don't think it's meant to be.
I spoke to Tesla again today and this is the deal they ultimately proposed:
1) I don't have to take delivery of the car. In this case they will refund me the initial $1650 transport fee, my initial deposit, and the money I wired. In effect, this would mean I don't take a loss on this except my time. They will NOT pay for an Enterprise rental car in the meantime while I look for another car (not a Tesla).
2) I can get a brand new Tesla that I configure that will be delivered in about 1 month. In the meantime they will give me a luxury class rental from Enterprise. They will also pay me for the initial $1650 transport fee and give me $2500 credit towards accessories or service checks.
3) I can order another inventory Tesla in or out of region. They will give me a rental car until I get it. They will also comp me $1650 which was my initial transport fee and give me $2500 credit towards accessories or shipping an out of area inventory car.
4) I can take delivery of the damaged car after it's repaired in 2 weeks. They will pay for a luxury Enterprise rental and waive the $1650 transport fee. I'm unclear if they would also give me $2500 credit, I will need to follow up to ask.
Overall it's good that Tesla came to these terms, but let me tell you I had to negotiate very hard for them to move the line at all and give me a credit and pay for my initial transport fee. I'm happy they finally did consent to this and reimbursement of my initial transport fee (which, by the way, was not disclosed to me prior to sale, although I understand this mistake because they thought I was taking delivery in region).
Anyway, I'll make my final decision tomorrow. Most likely, I'm not going to move forward with getting a Tesla.
I think their final proposal is fair, but like I said, their initial offer was only a $1200 service credit. It took me days of negotiating. I'm kind of tired on this whole ordeal and don't think it's meant to be.
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William13
Active Member
I think you were saddened by this experience and it is unlikely Tesla could recover. tBetter to wait and be happy. You will be happy when you get YOUR Tesla one day in the future.
richrootes
Member
Accidents happen - it's a shame that it came to this, as the car is a true wonder of the modern world
You're of course entitled to entertain any of the three options. Personally, I'd still accept the original car - it's a steal at that price, and with all of the concessions that Tesla offered, I'd have been one happy camper (I keep my vehicles a long time, and am not concerned with resale values)
i just hope that
a) Tesla okayed you disclosing the terms and conditions of the deal, and
b) Others don't start quoting those offers when trying to extract preferential terms for themselves
Safe motoring!
You're of course entitled to entertain any of the three options. Personally, I'd still accept the original car - it's a steal at that price, and with all of the concessions that Tesla offered, I'd have been one happy camper (I keep my vehicles a long time, and am not concerned with resale values)
i just hope that
a) Tesla okayed you disclosing the terms and conditions of the deal, and
b) Others don't start quoting those offers when trying to extract preferential terms for themselves
Safe motoring!
I actually informed Tesla about this thread and told them that I can either disclose or not disclose the terms of the deal. Since they were specifically told and did not say I have to hide the deal terms, I think it's fine.
Electricfan
Active Member
There's no doubt its fine. No lawyers were involved and you didn't sign anything about the deal, at least per what I read. So you can buy a newspaper ad and put it in the paper if you want to. I'm sorry you decided not to get a Tesla though. You might be soured on Tesla, understandably, but there's just no car company out there that's going to be fair right out of the box. They're all going to require you to stand up for yourself and run over you if you don't. Why its that way, I just don't know. Its too bad, really.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Agreed. I'd take the new car (assuming you can wait and the price is right) and use the money for service or put toward accessories/warranty.
Option 2 is darn good in my opinion. Option 1 sounds like it would be best for OP because he's worried about the cost of the car and SC network being built out (but thought there were a good number of SCs in FL already?).
If OP passes on #2 or #3 and waits a year to get a Tesla, sorry, but maybe the Tesla is not the right car for you. I wouldn't give up driving my MS for a year for even something in five figures.
Yes, the one month delay in getting the car sucks (option 2), but if you can get some distance and take a step back, it still was an ACCIDENT. Not like they sold your car out from under you. In the end, that it took a couple of days of "negotiating" to get many thousands of dollars of "compensation" for the 1 month delay -- and now you get to order new car (unlike the used one that he was originally thrilled to get) -- well, I would be dancing up and down to get either option 2 or 3. I've had a couple of things in the past that I've had to negotiate with Tesla that worked themselves out in the end, and never looked back and never had any regrets. Every day over the past 2 1/2 years has been a joy, even when there were a few bugs to work out.
If OP passes on #2 or #3 and waits a year to get a Tesla, sorry, but maybe the Tesla is not the right car for you. I wouldn't give up driving my MS for a year for even something in five figures.
Yes, the one month delay in getting the car sucks (option 2), but if you can get some distance and take a step back, it still was an ACCIDENT. Not like they sold your car out from under you. In the end, that it took a couple of days of "negotiating" to get many thousands of dollars of "compensation" for the 1 month delay -- and now you get to order new car (unlike the used one that he was originally thrilled to get) -- well, I would be dancing up and down to get either option 2 or 3. I've had a couple of things in the past that I've had to negotiate with Tesla that worked themselves out in the end, and never looked back and never had any regrets. Every day over the past 2 1/2 years has been a joy, even when there were a few bugs to work out.
Agreed. What made me unsure is who to point fingers at especially, so sometimes better not say too much - even though I'm a terribly (literally) speculative kind of person as you know.
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Why would b) be a bad thing? Isn't it exactly the kind of information a Tesla owner's forum would be good at sharing to each other?
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I agree the final proposal is good, too bad it took a bit of haggling to get beyond the service credit. Pretty fair from Tesla, again no complaints overall.
I'm still wondering if it just wouldn't have been easiest for Tesla and best for all to try an estimate the loss of value on the damaged car and offer that reduction as compensation. The rest just seem quite complex. I guess things like the rental may have Tesla's own insurance mathematics behind them, as well as other factors behind the service and accessory credits (higher nominal value than actual cost etc., costs shared by different departments within Tesla and thus budget politics affecting things etc.).
From a customer POV, I wonder if Tesla too wouldn't just had a happier and easier customer experience if they'd say, we can offer you discount X on the car price (based on some calculated loss of value), no other perks. Would that have pleased you?
LLWS
Member
...of course not purchasing the P85D now, buying an interim car, and then buying the P85D next year means paying sales tax twice, and suffering depreciation on two new cars. Tesla is clearly willing to compensate you for your time, put you in a luxury rental car as they solve the problem of delivering any car you want, and you'll end up with the car you sought to begin with. I'd just select a P85D in inventory, have them ship it, and file your $7,500 tax rebate in this tax year.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
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