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Tesla Auto Pilot Within Three Years

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People are (well at least 1 reported case so far) already blaming the 17" to try to get out of DUI.
Great... that's all we need. I can also guarantee you that some group sponsored by the oil or car companies will try to get the entire GUI banned at some point saying it's too dangerous. What we'll end up with a is a bunch of "Lawyer screens" and a crippled GUI while every kid in the country can still have a fully functioning Cell Phone turned on, while they drive and text. :rolleyes:
 
Agree completely. Seems very much like a gimmick, and one that personally just doesn't excite me that much. On the other hand Tesla talking about it probably gives the stock a little bump.


As I shareholder I am not focusing on full autopilot aspect of this just yet but I think it will be huge for sales when they incorporate all of the features (and more) that other high end luxury sedans have. I am sure before they incorporate autopilot we will get lane departure warning and adaptive cruise controls which will go a long way to increase demand and margins.

I would much prefer a battery announcement too but I am confident that Elon is thinking about it.

I would love some sort of Joint Venture with Panosonic to build a big battery factory as close to the Fremont factory as possible :)
 
I'm in favor of an autopilot for long-distance highway driving, particularly when coupled with a comprehensive trip-planning application. I can tell you as a pilot that having an autopilot doesn't reduce your engagement, it just frees you up to consider the bigger picture and evaluate your progress against the flight plan. You can always turn it off and hand-fly the plane when you want.
 
As I shareholder I am not focusing on full autopilot aspect of this just yet but I think it will be huge for sales when they incorporate all of the features (and more) that other high end luxury sedans have. I am sure before they incorporate autopilot we will get lane departure warning and adaptive cruise controls which will go a long way to increase demand and margins.

I would much prefer a battery announcement too but I am confident that Elon is thinking about it.

I would love some sort of Joint Venture with Panosonic to build a big battery factory as close to the Fremont factory as possible :)

I'm looking forward to a (relatively) inexpensive battery swap program one day. Tesla must have something in the works as they've proven they can do it in under 90 seconds.
 
Yeah. People will start blaming every crash they get into on it, just like they were when Toyota had their "sudden acceleration" recall. All of a sudden, there was a rash of Toyota owners having the issue (even when they weren't). Unfortunately, I think we'll see self driving cars about the same time we are going to see flying cars. Neither will happen and for the same reasons. Too much potential for disaster. If there IS a self driving car, I don't see it being fully automatic and would probably require some form of interaction from the driver to make it work. I don't think we'll be able to take naps and read... Just my guess...

Googles track record so far is flawless as long as humans don't try to intervene.
 
Think about what driverless technology will do for an entire new market ... we will no longer need to take the car keys away from aging parents. Instead, we will be giving them keys to a Tesla with driverless technology. Anything we can do to allow people to age with dignity is a good thing ... and driverless technology is one of those things. And it's a double win, since it also happens to open up a new market. :)

To be clear, I'm not talking about a car that acts as a taxi (though that would be useful). I'm talking about a car that provides assistance to a driver who may not be as sharp as they once were, to allow them to safely navigate the roads without putting themselves or others at risk.

Sometimes it's not about what WE want. Sometimes it's about what others need.

That's one of the reasons Carlos Ghosn from Nissan is trying to develop the tech for their cars as well. It's a great positive example for our society. I'm not sure what I will be like when I'm 70-80, but if something like this would let me get out just as much as when I was younger, that would be great.
 
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I get the impression Elon has concluded that the GoogleX self driving car project didn't have much advantage and was too focused on just pushing the limits of the technology rather than developing commercial product. Like for a lot of other car companies the idea is that this is really series of technologies that can be introduced as separate features....some of which are just software upgrades. Instead of all or nothing, the car is either conventional or robotic, the view is that it just gradually gets more robotic features as Tesla gets more and more real world performance data streaming in.

i think this means that the cars would have a full sensor suite and be capable of driving without a passenger quite a bit before these features are switched on for ordinary users.

Hard core driving enthusiasts don't enjoy every driving task. I think a lot of people who love to drive down the coast highway for fun would switch on autopilot on I5. I'd hope one of the early true driverless modes would be an auto-valet enabling (at least in designated places) just getting out of your car and letting it go park itself or return from the lot to pick you up at the door when you phone it.

i don't think this is a major distraction, the Tesla platform is the best suited in existence for this technology because every aspect of operation is natively under software control already. It's just a new layer of software to act on it's own based on sensor input rather than waiting for driver inputs. Most IC cars are still controlled through rube goldberg mechanical linkages that aren't as easy to adapt to software control.
 
Yes, the full sensor approach makes sense. Equip the car will lots of sensors with the intention of doing advanced work, and then gradually develop software that uses all of the inputs. Once there's enough to make it worthwhile start building the car with the sensors. That way, they can got the supplier resolved in one go.
 
Very interesting! To me this just says that Tesla is working on even bigger projects then most people realize.
Unfortunately, I don't know if the world is quite ready for driverless cars, and in 3 years time is especially shocking. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock reacts negatively at first, but once it's discussed and maybe more details come out about what exactly Elon is planning, we could see it rally.

Many in the world may not be but certainly anyone who views driving as an impediment to staying current with their social media will gravitate to it very quickly. For that alone it will be a huge win and safer for the rest of us with fewer distracted drivers. Everyday I see drivers looking down at their smart phones or tablets while they drive and it drives me crazy.
 
I believe that Autopilot with 5 cameras covering 360 degrees is possible, the only roadblock is figuring out the cost structure that will make this work. One high frame rate camera in front, 4 lower frame rate camera in each corners of the car. Keep cost below $5000 and use image processing to determine distance instead of a Lidar. I don't claim to be an expert in this field, but I've done some work in image processing with the 360 degree camera system that Elon mentioned. Hopefully someone better than me can find some fault and we can debate about possibilities.

Hardware setup
If I remember correctly, the two major players in image processing hardware space are Cognex and Matrox. Cognex has similar offerings at a lower cost, but Matrox has a better API.
•One capture card with 8 input feeds ~$2000
•One high frame rate camera ~$1000
•Four low frame rate cameras ~$2000
•Bumper sensors piggy backing on airbag sensors ~$0
•Shared CPU with car console ~$0

Five cameras with one high frame rate in front and 4 lower frame rate cameras at the four corners of the car with overlapping field of view. Autopilot can piggyback on the sensors used by airbags and use them as a collision detector for last line of defense, saving some cost. The biggest variable in the cost, is in how much camera we need based on the requirement. Obviously, the more camera we slap on, the cheaper the camera and image quality if we want to keep the cost to $5000.

The front high frame rate camera's main job is to determine relative speed and prevent a frontal collision, this is where things gets a bit fuzzy, we need to figure out what frame rate is necessary for this to function properly and what transfer delay from capture to the cpu's memory is acceptable. For a surgeon's medical console, I know that the system needs to be 60hz, 10bit color and 30 msec maximum delay between capture to display. So we can start with that as a reference design.

Autopilot.jpg

Roadblock 1: Relative distance of moving cars
The next problem is sensing distance. This is the problem that Lidar solves and a camera based system might have problems with. With cameras, it is hard to determine how close an object is, because an object can just be big and cover a large pixel area of the sensor without being near the car. The one way I can think of is to use image processing techniques to process this information. Here is the trick I think will solve the problem of how to determine relative distances of cars nearby: License plates. License plates are state issued and have a standard size. It is also something that is on every car and has a white background which is very easy to be picked out by image processing software.

Roadblock 2: Pedestrians
Pedestrians present a different challenge as they are mostly immobile when looked at from the point of view of the car. The most important thing about pedestrians is determining their distance to the car. Assuming they are immobile, we can use the difference of size between subsequent frames and the car's own speed to determine how fast the pedestrian is approaching the car. Again, each person is different and their height will affect the judgment of this process, but a person can probably be estimated based on how far off the vertical axis they are in the image sensor and how much vertical pixels they occupy.

Cost breakdown
I am only familiar with Matrox's cost, so using the Matrox QxT line of product where 8 inputs can be received and captured by one PCIe card connected to a PC, we should be able to reduce the cost of electronics, pushing the majority of the system's cost onto the hands of the cameras themselves. Here's the tricky part that I believe can make or break the bank.

If my memory serves me correctly, an Dalsa camera normally paired with these capture cards in an industrial setting can cost up to $10,000 with the lens included. Multiply that by 8 and we have the autopilot system that's equivalent to the cost of a Model S. As a consumer, it does not make sense to buy that... unless you are in Norway. From a back of the napkin calculation, Model S owners might be willing to shell out $5,000 for technology based on the evidence that most people choose the tech package that cost around $3,750. $5,000 on a $75,000 Model makes sense since that's only 6% of the overall cost. $5,000 on Gen 3 that cost $35,000 might not make sense for people as that represent a full 14% of the cost.

So let's limit the scope to model S for now. With Matrox's Qxt, the cost of each capture card is around $2,000. Assuming we are using the on board CPU to keep cost in line, we have $3,000 left over to buy 5 cameras and we are left with off-the-shelf type consumer type cameras. Personally I think it is fine, because the on board CPU can't handle the load of processing 8 high def cameras anyway.

Disclaimer
All opinion and information are for Tesla Motors Club discussion only. Please do not quote me anywhere else, nor use the information for any type of formal debate. I don't claim that I know anything, nor do I claim that any of the cost here are accurate. These are back of the napkin estimates and information pulled from my memory from something I did a couple of years ago.
 
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Elon states that their autopilot system will cover 90% of driving situations. I would guess he is probably referring to commuter travel and long-distance travel. Maybe also neighborhood travel. That would not require a complicated array of cameras, sensors and computers. The picture shown above would probably fall into the category of the 10% that autopilot would not work in. So probably the driver would need to take control in parking lots, inner cities, construction zones, etc. But for vanilla driving mostly on the highway I think the system could be built rather inexpensively.
 
Elon states that their autopilot system will cover 90% of driving situations. I would guess he is probably referring to commuter travel and long-distance travel. Maybe also neighborhood travel. That would not require a complicated array of cameras, sensors and computers. The picture shown above would probably fall into the category of the 10% that autopilot would not work in. So probably the driver would need to take control in parking lots, inner cities, construction zones, etc. But for vanilla driving mostly on the highway I think the system could be built rather inexpensively.

The whole idea of autopilot is for it to work especially in parking lots. This is where you have the most accidents.
 
The whole idea of autopilot is for it to work especially in parking lots. This is where you have the most accidents.

Having autopilot navigate through a parking lot would be extremely more technical than autopilot driving in normal traffic. Pedestrians, shopping carts, lack of right-of-way signage, etc. all create too many variables for a computer to figure out. In order to get an inexpensive system out in 3 years I believe it will only operate the car in vanilla driving scenarios such as I described above. That cheaper and simpler system makes sense. Again, the intent is for 90% of driving scenarios.
 
The whole idea of autopilot is for it to work especially in parking lots. This is where you have the most accidents.

I would tend to disagree with this. As vin5xx states parking lots, inner cities, construction zones are where the drive will need to take over. At least with the first generation autopilot systems.
Highways and local routes should be the goal initially.
 
Given that Google's self-driven cars are still in beta, it would be very surprising if Tesla can come up with a road-ready self-driving feature in three years. The general self-driving problem is something researchers have been working on for around two decades now. Perhaps something like the Benz S-class's autopilot is within reach, but not the sort of system Google is trying to build.
 
My reasoning is this:
Even on highways and autoroutes, the primary failure case to avoid at all case, is hitting a pedestrian or a car. Because once you do hit one, a tsunami of politicians will vie to shutdown any type of autonomous driving. "Robot kills Human" will make for some great headlines and gain you more votes from your constituents.

Therefore, designing the AI to avoid collision with human and cars will have to be built right away. Just because you are on a highway, doesn't mean that you can stop detecting for collision with a human. So if that system is always active, then it means that you might as well design it to be able to work in cities and normal roads where pedestrians are present.

What I am getting from you guys is that $5000 is too much for this autopilot package?