Supercharging Costs

[ModelNforNerd]

I agree with you 100%. Tesla's spread on negotiated power costs v. retail should let it make a profit and stay marginally more expensive that residential rates to keep someone from just charging there vs at home.

In some places they already have. For example, Massachusetts.

I'm currently paying ~ $0.09/kWh via National Grid.

The new Supercharging rate Tesla will be charging in MA is $0.22/kWh.

Assuming a 75kWh battery. that's a difference of $9.75 per full charge from 0. Granted, if you can afford the car in the 1st place, it won't break you to charge at a Supercharger vs at home, but it will add up.


Source: Supercharging

 

[jbcarioca]

It's a common American set-up:

'Family' car: SUV
'Commuter' car: sedan

'Family' is further defined as one driver, 1.5 kids, and 2 dogs
'Commuter' is one driver stuck in traffic

BTW, you definitely need a well-insulated trunk for the .5 kid

 

[dsvick]

I am slightly surprised there is no mention anywhere of a free for life option you can pay for, although I guess they could be waiting until Monday to add it to the site. I thought for sure they'd have that option.

 

[Gwgan]

I'm currently paying ~ $0.09/kWh via National Grid

Is that just the supply charge or does that include the delivery charge? My supply charge in Maine is about $0.07 but combined is almost $0.13. Tesla is charging $0.21 here.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Is that just the supply charge or does that include the delivery charge? My supply charge in Maine is about $0.07 but combined is almost $0.13. Tesla is charging $0.21 here.

We're in "winter" right now, so actually, the current rate is $.10423/kWH, not counting the $5.50 flat rate customer fee everyone gets charged.

I think it's still enough of a monetary deterrent to keep people from using Superchargers for daily driving.

 

[Saghost]

I am slightly surprised there is no mention anywhere of a free for life option you can pay for, although I guess they could be waiting until Monday to add it to the site. I thought for sure they'd have that option.

Never gonna happen. The major reason for the new policy that charges for Supercharging IMO is companies like Tesloop driving 130k per year per car on Tesla electricity.

I'm still hoping for a road trip package either included in larger batteries or as a stand alone option that includes a thousand or two kWh per year, just for psychological reasons (so the road trip feels free,) but Tesla can't afford to do unlimited in this world of folks happy to exploit it.

 

[TexasEV]

I am slightly surprised there is no mention anywhere of a free for life option you can pay for, although I guess they could be waiting until Monday to add it to the site. I thought for sure they'd have that option.

That idea is a loser. The people who would buy it would be those who plan to supercharger more than whatever they would charge for the option. People without a way to charge at home, Uber drivers, airport limos, etc.

 

[Bokonon]

I'm currently paying ~ $0.09/kWh via National Grid.

Whoa, how'd you swing that?!

We have Eversource, and our delivery charge is actually higher than our generation charge. For example, last month we paid:

Generation: $0.082 / kWh
Delivery: $0.120 / kWh ($0.108 if you subtract the flat monthly "Customer Charge")
Total: $0.202 / kWh (or $0.19 without the "Customer Charge")

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Whoa, how'd you swing that?!

We have Eversource, and our delivery charge is actually higher than our generation charge. For example, last month we paid:

Generation: $0.082 / kWh
Delivery: $0.120 / kWh ($0.108 if you subtract the flat monthly "Customer Charge")
Total: $0.202 / kWh (or $0.19 without the "Customer Charge")

We're on the Fixed Rate option.

https://www9.nationalgridus.com/masselectric/non_html/MA_Residential_Table.pdf

 

[ccutrer]

At a glance, in the states where Tesla can charge by the kWh, their rate seems awfully close to the average residential rate over the past year, plus maybe 1-2 cents.

Electricity Prices and Rates (Updated Jan 2017) – Electric Choice

I don't know enough about how commercial rates and demand charges work to say for sure, but my guess would be that, by pricing supercharging just above local residential rates, Tesla wants to achieves the following:

1. Earn enough on the spread between the commercial and residential rates to cover most of the upkeep of the facility (so it's neither a profit center nor a significant cost center)

2. Make "local supercharging" much less appealing for those with residential charging capability (e.g. home owners), but not prohibitively expensive for those who don't (e.g. apartment-complex dwellers)

All said, a smart and fair solution, if you ask me.

One thing I'm curious about: as more and more superchargers get hooked up to solar arrays, will the addition of free sun-power have any effect on Tesla's rates?

I'm not super familiar with commercial and industrial rates, but I have glanced at them once. My impression was that the per-kWh price is absurdly low (like $0.03), and the demand charge is outrageous (like $10/kW). These would be Utah.. I dunno how a more expensive market like California would affect things. So think of it this way - for a single supercharger to get used once at 135kW, it'd be roughly $1,355 for the month. But if that supercharger was used 5 times a day for 50kWh each time, it would only be $1,575. In other words, the busier a supercharger is, the more cost effective it is.

Disclaimer: these numbers are very much rounded, and very much off the top of my head. Assume they could be off by two orders of magnitude in either direction

 

[Bokonon]

We're on the Fixed Rate option.

https://www9.nationalgridus.com/masselectric/non_html/MA_Residential_Table.pdf

Ah, I see, you're just looking at supply rates. National Grid's [rather inscrutable] delivery rate schedule adds another $0.10-0.11 / kWh, which brings the total you pay closer to Tesla's $0.22 / kWh.

https://www9.nationalgridus.com/non_html/1116nant.pdf

 

[ohmman]

mod note: A handful of posts were moved to snippiness due to political name-calling. Unfortunately, some good content had to be swept out as well, since it quoted the original content or those responses. You can find your posts in snippiness if you'd like to copy and repost anything you feel had less contentious value.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Ah, I see, you're just looking at supply rates. National Grid's [rather inscrutable] delivery rate schedule adds another $0.10-0.11 / kWh, which brings the total you pay closer to Tesla's $0.22 / kWh.

https://www9.nationalgridus.com/non_html/1116nant.pdf

*shrug* I may have ended up with the short end of the stick here.......but I pay the cable and internet bill, and the wife pays the gas and electric bill. LOL

 

[SageBrush]

I'm not super familiar with commercial and industrial rates, but I have glanced at them once. My impression was that the per-kWh price is absurdly low (like $0.03), and the demand charge is outrageous (like $10/kW). These would be Utah.. I dunno how a more expensive market like California would affect things. So think of it this way - for a single supercharger to get used once at 135kW, it'd be roughly $1,355 for the month. But if that supercharger was used 5 times a day for 50kWh each time, it would only be $1,575. In other words, the busier a supercharger is, the more cost effective it is.

Disclaimer: these numbers are very much rounded, and very much off the top of my head. Assume they could be off by two orders of magnitude in either direction

Only my impression -- the demand charges are the real engine behind commercial installation of Tesla batteries. I fully expect SCs to do the same ... and offer sky high kW charging rates as a bonus.

 

[hmmm]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but have they communicated yet wether the annual 400KwH will rollover annually? I didn't see any mention of that anywhere one way or the other, so I am guessing it's a no?

 

[SageBrush]

Never gonna happen. The major reason for the new policy that charges for Supercharging IMO is companies like Tesloop driving 130k per year per car on Tesla electricity.

I doubt that had anything to do with the charging cost policy. Companies like Tesloop are fantastically cheap, excellent advertising.

I think abuse leading to congestion that will only get worse as the Tesla explodes with Model 3 are reasons #1, #2, and #3.

 

[SageBrush]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but have they communicated yet wether the annual 400KwH will rollover annually? I didn't see any mention of that anywhere one way or the other, so I am guessing it's a no?

No roll-over. Part of the FAQ

 

[tinm]

All this charging fee news begs the question, what happened to Elon's public announcements several years ago that each Supercharger site would have a solar canopy with battery storage and that Tesla would be feeding excess energy back to the grid for a profit? Today, very few sites have solar canopies or batteries and new sites coming online usually lack those things too. What's up with that?

 

[hmmm]

No roll-over. Part of the FAQ

Thanks...glad I apologized in advance...ahem.

 

[hmmm]

Re. pricing,.. As an example California will be 20 cents vs ~12 cents "all in" for PGE's residential EV rate in NorCal. This will nicely "take care" of most local charging issues and give Tesla funds to re-invest in the SC network..I really don't see them pushing for profits on this, this would be really shortsighted IMO.