Supercharger kwhr cost should not be based on price of gas

[Chomlee]

New owner here. I’ve just mapped out various trips across the state and noticed something shocking. At least here in Florida it seems most of the supercharger stations have increased the rates the same percentage as gas. For many, it’s $.45-$.50 a KWh. Don’t get me wrong, the electric cost here has gone from about $.10 a kWh to $13 a kWh but it seems the super chargers have doubled the rate lately.

Is there any rules about how much they can charge?

 

[EVRider-FL]

Do you have data on the on the increases, or is this based on your impressions? I doubt there are any rules, but I think Teslas prices are supposed to be based on the local cost of electricity.

 

[Chomlee]

Do you have data on the on the increases, or is this based on your impressions? I doubt there are any rules, but I think Teslas prices are supposed to be based on the local cost of electricity.

I can tell you that Florida has historically had some of the cheapest costs for electricity and the charges at the super chargers here seem a little high when you take that into consideration. Again, I am totally new to this, so I don’t have the data of historical supercharger rates here. I ran the calculations and it seems at the now $4 a gallon here, your seeing a “real world driving” (240 miles/82 kWh) equivalent to about 26 mpg when using superchargers. If gas gets cheaper, and those rates remain, it will actually cost you more to drive an EV on long trips vs an ICE vehicle.

Obviously, every day driving is a no brainer (especially if you have free charging at work like a few people have).

It will be interesting to see how all this evolves as I can see places like Walmart offer free (L2 charging at 30 amps) which will run 7kW which would cost them approx $1 an hour but would be a huge incentive to shop and the longer you shop, the more you charge.

Not a hater of EVs (obviously, I just bought one), but I think more needs to be done to incentivize people to use them (other than just handing out $$.)

 

[Zythryn]

Tesla’s goal with Superchargers were to have them more expensive than home charging, yet cheaper than gas. So yes, I believe it is bracketed by both electricity and gas.
In addition, paying for superchargers is not cheap. A user fee is appropriate in my mind.

 

[KJD]

New owner here. I’ve just mapped out various trips across the state and noticed something shocking. At least here in Florida it seems most of the supercharger stations have increased the rates the same percentage as gas. For many, it’s $.45-$.50 a KWh. Don’t get me wrong, the electric cost here has gone from about $.10 a kWh to $13 a kWh but it seems the super chargers have doubled the rate lately.

Is there any rules about how much they can charge?

Residential rates for electricity are not the same as commercial rates for electricity and this is what Tesla and others have to pay for high power charging stations. The commercial rates are more about peak demand during the day. This can add thousands of dollars to the bill.

The thread listed below is an old thread, but the explanation is still very applicable today.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/demand-charges-—-the-hidden-cost-and-dirty-secret-of-ev-charging-for-businesses.49620/

 

[Chomlee]

Residential rates for electricity are not the same as commercial rates for electricity and this is what Tesla and others have to pay for high power charging stations. The commercial rates are more about peak demand during the day. This can add thousands of dollars to the bill.

The thread listed below is an old thread, but the explanation is still very applicable today.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/demand-charges-—-the-hidden-cost-and-dirty-secret-of-ev-charging-for-businesses.49620/

Thank you for this, definitely put things more in perspective!

 

[Chomlee]

BTW, my nephew got his S right before “lifetime charging” went away. Lucky b##tard!

 

[maus92]

Do you have data on the on the increases, or is this based on your impressions? I doubt there are any rules, but I think Teslas prices are supposed to be based on the local cost of electricity.

Nope - Supercharging fees here in Maryland have gone up 20-25% over the past few months with no rate increases approved for the public electric utility. It's Tesla testing what the market will bear with variable pricing. We should demand that they post their pricing as is required for gasoline stations.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Nope - Supercharging fees here in Maryland have gone up 20-25% over the past few months with no rate increases approved for the public electric utility. It's Tesla testing what the market will bear with variable pricing. We should demand that they post their pricing as is required for gasoline stations.

I agree, although it doesn't have to be a sign. Just make the data more accessible.

Of course, they don't want to do that, because they want people to access the network based on availability and perhaps more because it would expose their high pricing. Needs a ChargeBuddy.

 

[Genie]

The price of gas does not always reflect the price of oil, today oil is <$90. The refined product being a consumer commodity, retail price is what people are willing to pay at that time and place. When electricity is dispensed as fuel the same thing seems likely.

 

[avs007]

The price of gas does not always reflect the price of oil, today oil is <$90. The refined product being a consumer commodity, retail price is what people are willing to pay at that time and place. When electricity is dispensed as fuel the same thing seems likely.

There are many issues with oil/gas price comparisons when looking at just barrel prices for oil. There was a documentary about all this I saw a little bit ago that explained it well... One issue was that even tho the US produces a LOT of oil, the US can't actually refine a lot of it... The oil we get from the dakotas is light sweet crude... But most all our refining capacities is for sour crude, becuase when our oil infrastucture was built, the US did not produce light sweet crude. This is why we must export our oil, and re-import oil, so we can refine it...

Another issue, is distribution.. The Pacific Northwest for example, has refineries in Puget Sound... There is a pipeline that connects the PacNW region. However, the region consumes more refined petroleum than these refineries can produce... It mentioned that for whatever reasons, it was prohibitively expensive to get refined product from other refineries, so as a result, the PacNW must also import refined petroleum products like Diesel, Jet Fuel, and Gasoline.

I forget where I saw the documentary, it might have been CNBC, but it was pretty interesting, as it explained all this.

 

[TS.42]

I have seen prices increase nearly double in AZ over the last three months.

 

[TMBURNSY]

New owner here. I’ve just mapped out various trips across the state and noticed something shocking. At least here in Florida it seems most of the supercharger stations have increased the rates the same percentage as gas. For many, it’s $.45-$.50 a KWh. Don’t get me wrong, the electric cost here has gone from about $.10 a kWh to $13 a kWh but it seems the super chargers have doubled the rate lately.

Is there any rules about how much they can charge?

Didn't see your post until now but I posted some gripes about FL super charging prices...

When did Supercharing get so expensive and why are Time of Use rates so varied (SE FL)

I never paid attention to the supercharging rates I was paying on road trips in FL, until this weekend. I had assumed pricing was around $0.30/kWh and there was no time of use pricing (as an AZ transplant, I figured that TOU pricing was for those out West). I was in for a shock. I looked at...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[bradtem]

I think Tesla no longer sticks to the idea of cost recovery for superchargers. Nice while it lasted. They are 60 cents on-peak here.

Home electricity has gone crazy here. Night-time EV rates jumped from 13 cents to 18 cents to 25 cents in just the last couple of years. Daytime rates are well over 50 cents, but haven't jumped as much.

 

[andaconda]

I agree, although it doesn't have to be a sign. Just make the data more accessible.

Of course, they don't want to do that, because they want people to access the network based on availability and perhaps more because it would expose their high pricing. Needs a ChargeBuddy.

Ha, Ha --ChargeBuddy.