Supercharger cost? Free or not - Model 3

[JeffK]

I'm expecting it to be the "new" Supercharger plan with a fee to enable.

There will be no fee to enable you to pay supercharging fees. Every car will come capable from the start.

...otherwise people should publicly call them out. They promised it'd come "supercharging capable" since launch. They'd have to call it capable of being supercharging capable.

 

[internalaudit]

Line waiters on 3/31/2016 will get free supercharging for life.

Maybe if I say it enough...it will come true.

I am thinking maybe the glass sunroof will be thrown in.

====

How much does it cost to charge at the SCN since everyone gets it free for now? Would it be equivalent to cheapest residential time of day rates?

 

[Zaphod]

Hi all,

Maybe the below question has been answered already, apologize.

Just reserved Model 3 and wanted to double check about Superchargers. Are those free of cost or not?

Thanks

Seeing as you just reserved and are in the UK, by the time you get your car, who knows what supercharging options and plans there will be. What it has at launch now will possibly (probably) be different than what it has 12-18 months from now.

 

[tpatana]

400 kWh in my area is about $42 if they offered it for 20 years at that price it's $840 at the commercial rate this is only $680. This could easily be built into the price of the car.

$42 times million cars would be $42 million every year.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

There will be no fee to enable you to pay supercharging fees. Every car will come capable from the start.

...otherwise people should publicly call them out. They promised it'd come "supercharging capable" since launch. They'd have to call it capable of being supercharging capable.

Capable just means it's physically capable. It will be, which would allow people to choose to upgrade later.
That word was used at the reveal and soon afterwards they adjusted the wording on the website to make it even more in the sense of _hardware_ capable.

Now, the model3 page says "Supercharging". Not free Supercharging.

Whether they include it in the price is likely to be a function of how low they can get the price without it.
I certainly do expect the 375 to have it included in the upgrade price.

 

[JeffK]

$42 times million cars would be $42 million every year.

Again, it's already paid by the owner so it's $0 per year and, in fact, they can gain interest on it..

 

[JeffK]

Whether they include it in the price is likely to be a function of how low they can get the price without it.

I doubt this as well. The hardware and even likely the 400 kWh per year thing will be included in the base price. Otherwise it'd be an extremely poor business move. Same applies to autopilot hardware.

I will proverbially eat my hat if they charged even a cent more than the base price of $35,000 to "enable" supercharging. Supercharging itself may not be free but I'm not going to be charged to be able to be charged to charge if that makes sense haha.

It's going to be both physically capable and "enabled" out of the box.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I doubt this as well. The hardware and even likely the 400 kWh per year thing will be included in the base price. Otherwise it'd be an extremely poor business move. Same applies to autopilot hardware.

It's not really about the hardware, although there's some cost. It's about the cost of the Supercharger network. How much coverage and capacity do you want? How reliable do you want the network to be?

Pure PAYG is a crappy way to pay for charging networks. That's why Tesla had a fee or baked the cost into the S and X and why so much other infrastructure is having to be paid for with fines or hidden manufacturer subsidies.

 

[JeffK]

It's about the cost of the Supercharger network.

Supercharging stations are around $300,000 a piece and there are under 1000 of them worldwide at the moment. To double this would cost $300 million dollars. If Elon was correct about Model 3 avg price being $42k then they are looking at over $16 billion in revenue over the next year. If they are able to manage 25% gross margins then that's $4 billion dollars before other expenses. I'm sure they can find $300 million in there somewhere to double the supercharger network. (this isn't including S/X)

 

[Garlan Garner]

Supercharging stations are around $300,000 a piece and there are under 1000 of them worldwide at the moment. To double this would cost $300 million dollars. If Elon was correct about Model 3 avg price being $42k then they are looking at over $16 billion in revenue over the next year. If they are able to manage 25% gross margins then that's $4 billion dollars before other expenses. I'm sure they can find $300 million in there somewhere to double the supercharger network. (this isn't including S/X)

I have a hard time believing that SC's cost $300,000 each.

Secondly, I have a hard time believing that Tesla is going to invest $300K per charger and then charging someone $0.05 - $0.30 per kWh to use it. That charge per kWh wouldn't make a miniscule dent in re-cooping the cost of the SC's. They can't raise the rates above the local utility rate for local drivers - or else they won't use them. There aren't enough long distance drivers here in Chicago that use them.

Lastly SC'ing is still free for the life of the car for Model S and X drivers. There aren't going to be enough Model 3's out there to pay for the unbelievable price of $300K a piece.

I've always been of the opinion that "If you want to move people away from using your product"....charge more.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I have a hard time believing that SC's cost $300,000 each.

Secondly, I have a hard time believing that Tesla is going to invest $300K per charger and then charging someone $0.05 - $0.30 per kWh to use it. That charge per kWh wouldn't make a miniscule dent in re-cooping the cost of the SC's. They can't raise the rates above the local utility rate for local drivers - or else they won't use them. There aren't enough long distance drivers here in Chicago that use them.

Lastly SC'ing is still free for the life of the car for Model S and X drivers. There aren't going to be enough Model 3's out there to pay for the unbelievable price of $300K a piece.

I've always been of the opinion that "If you want to move people away from using your product"....charge more.

He said per station, not per stall (or cabinet servicing 2 stalls), if that is what you are talking about.

 

[Garlan Garner]

He said per station, not per stall (or cabinet servicing 2 stalls), if that is what you are talking about.

My point remains the same either way.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Supercharging stations are around $300,000 a piece and there are under 1000 of them worldwide at the moment. To double this would cost $300 million dollars. If Elon was correct about Model 3 avg price being $42k then they are looking at over $16 billion in revenue over the next year. If they are able to manage 25% gross margins then that's $4 billion dollars before other expenses. I'm sure they can find $300 million in there somewhere to double the supercharger network. (this isn't including S/X)

I believe the cost per site is actually a lot less than $300k, but there are overheads, so let's use $300k.

So far, 0.8k*$300k/180k cars ~= $1,333 per car.

If they're bulding ahead, the cost should be less. Add in a little for the DCFC hardware cost in the car. But whatever the number is, what would the base car cost if they add it into the price? Would it be mean a base price over $36k?

Plus, from a selfish point of view, a separate item could allow me to avoid paying excise tax on it. We pay frontloaded 9.15% over 10 years on the MSRP.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I believe the cost per site is actually a lot less than $300k, but there are overheads, so let's use $300k.

So far, 0.8k*$300k/180k cars ~= $1,333 per car.

If they're bulding ahead, the cost should be less. Add in a little for the DCFC hardware cost in the car. But whatever the number is, what would the base car cost if they add it into the price? Would it be mean a base price over $36k?

Plus, from a selfish point of view, a separate item could allow me to avoid paying excise tax on it. We pay frontloaded 9.15% over 10 years on the MSRP.

Hmmm...lets see....how much is the Supercharging option in the Model S and X?

 

[JeffK]

So far, 0.8k*$300k/180k cars ~= $1,333 per car.

Hmmm...lets see....how much is the Supercharging option in the Model S and X?

Exactly, and if you remember supercharging used to cost $2000. Later it was built into the price of the car as battery costs decreased... thus they weren't losing any money. They will continue to make what they are making with the S/X and in addition have the entire volume of Model 3 sales to look at. If they wanted to double the amount of money they are generating with this they'd need to add in around $500 to the base price of the car. This doesn't mean $35,500 it still means $35k but some of the profits are earmarked for supercharger expansion.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Exactly, and if you remember supercharging used to cost $2000. Later it was built into the price of the car as battery costs decreased... thus they weren't losing any money. They will continue to make what they are making with the S/X and in addition have the entire volume of Model 3 sales to look at. If they wanted to double the amount of money they are generating with this they'd need to add in around $500 to the base price of the car. This doesn't mean $35,500 it still means $35k but some of the profits are earmarked for supercharger expansion.

Bingo...

For everyone who believes that Tesla ( then non non-for-profit company ) is losing out on money in the Super Charging effort can reference JeffK in this post. He beat me to the punch.

$2k is a cost built into each battery EVEN IF you don't use supercharging at all.

Lets now do the math on every Model S and Model X in the past...oh...lets say.....3 years at $2K per vehicle.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Your Model 3 will have both the hardware and software upon delivery to supercharge.

You will not be allowed to take possession without tying a credit card to your MyTesla account. Every so often, your MyTesla account will make sure the card on file is still valid, and if not, will send you a reminder in the car to update it, in case you need to use Supercharging on a trip.

This stuff is all easily handled on the back end with Point of Sale software.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

I think tesla should give people that bought a
"X" or "s" from tesla and are buying a 3
as a 2nd car unlimited use of supercharger
use. To exclude profit seekers, if you sell your 3, no free supercharger use to new owner.

 

[TexasEV]

They can't raise the rates above the local utility rate for local drivers - or else they won't use them. There aren't enough long distance drivers here in Chicago that use them.

For being on this board as much as you are, you sure get a lot of stuff backwards. Tesla doesn't want or need to encourage drivers to use the superchargers with lower rates than they pay at home. It couldn't possibly keep up with that demand. The rates need to be above home rates, so people who have the capability to install home charging will do so. The superchargers are to facilitate long distance travel, as they were from the beginning, and also to accommodate people in multi family dwellings in cities who can't easily charge at home. They're not intended to replace or compete with home charging. That remains the best option for those who can do so.

 

[Colsla]

I hope it's not free.
Supercharger costs are pretty cheap as it is and anyone who can afford to buy a model 3 certainly can afford less money in refilling costs than they would in a comparable gas car. No one should expect to save money from free supercharing imo.