Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[cynix]

"Norway’s Consumer Council is now acting as a mediator between Tesla and over 150 Model S owners or about 25% of the ~600 Dual Motor Model S owners in the country."

Note that that's 25% of all D owners. If we were to look at it as a percentage of just P85D owners, the number is likely higher.

 

[tomas]

I'm galled anyone would compare to VW. That was an illegal, intentional plot to deceive many countries' authorities and advertising campaign of clean diesel that wasn't. Tesla at most is guilty of being less clear than they should have, not outright intentional deception.

 

[Kalllagtunet]

I'm galled anyone would compare to VW. That was an illegal, intentional plot to deceive many countries' authorities and advertising campaign of clean diesel that wasn't. Tesla at most is guilty of being less clear than they should have, not outright intentional deception.

We will find out after the first court rouling if it compares in beeing legal or not... It will take some time before we know but consumer law and laws on truth in advertising and the responsibility on the professional part (in this case Tesla) are quite strict in Norway. And Norway with its 5,2 million inhabitants are still the second largest market for tesla after the US or have other markets past us?

 

[Canuck]

Note that that's 25% of all D owners. If we were to look at it as a percentage of just P85D owners, the number is likely higher.

Really? Tesla has only sold 600 "D" cars in Norway? I guess they don't sell many cars in Norway especially since: During much of 2014, Tesla’s Model S was Norway’s best-selling vehicle. Not best selling electric car, but best-selling vehicle overall.

 

[tomas]

We will find out after the first court rouling if it compares in beeing legal or not... It will take some time before we know but consumer law and laws on truth in advertising and the responsibility on the professional part (in this case Tesla) are quite strict in Norway. And Norway with its 5,2 million inhabitants are still the second largest market for tesla after the US or have other markets past us?

You have a dog in the hunt. Get objective for a sec. No comparison.

 

[Canuck]

We will find out after the first court rouling if it compares in beeing legal or not... It will take some time before we know but consumer law and laws on truth in advertising and the responsibility on the professional part (in this case Tesla) are quite strict in Norway. And Norway with its 5,2 million inhabitants are still the second largest market for tesla after the US or have other markets past us?

Regardless of the ruling, there's no comparison between the VW and Tesla issues.

 

[Kalllagtunet]

Really? Tesla has only sold 600 "D" cars in Norway? I guess they don't sell many cars in Norway especially since: During much of 2014, Tesla’s Model S was Norway’s best-selling vehicle. Not best selling electric car, but best-selling vehicle overall.

You are right 631 P85D sold until end of october.

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Regardless of the ruling, there's no comparison between the VW and Tesla issues.

That was not what I said ether....

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Cannuck wile your at it...

Canuck do you have from your perspective as knowledgeable in the field of law an understanding of what type of legal advice Tesla have been given (As an US company I will assume that the legal department in Tesla (or external advisor) have been directly involved) prior to the changes that in fact have been done on their web site with regards to HP numbers.

First change: Removing any trace of a combined number of HP motor power (the infamous 691.) and just giving the HP motor separately for the two motors.

Second change: Start referencing to the R85 testing standard

Third change: Include information of 1 foot roll out on their 0-60(0-100 numbers much later in time in Europe) numbers.

Fourth change: Post a technical blog explaining HP numbers but omitting actually state the battery limited HP number for the model in the lineup that actually are limited by battery power.

Fifth change: Include the battery limited HP number of the actual vehicle in addition to the separate motor HP number.

 

[stopcrazypp]

We will find out after the first court rouling if it compares in beeing legal or not... It will take some time before we know but consumer law and laws on truth in advertising and the responsibility on the professional part (in this case Tesla) are quite strict in Norway. And Norway with its 5,2 million inhabitants are still the second largest market for tesla after the US or have other markets past us?

The way it was presented none of it has reached a court yet. Right now the consumer group in Norway can make a decision, but it will not be based on the law but rather negotiation/arbitration (with the group biased toward the consumer). So the decision will not really say if what Tesla did was legal or not (esp. given the entire proceeding will be private, so no facts found will be made public).

 

[Kalllagtunet]

The way it was presented none of it has reached a court yet. Right now the consumer group in Norway can make a decision, but it will not be based on the law but rather negotiation/arbitration (with the group biased toward the consumer). So the decision will not really say if what Tesla did was legal or not (esp. given the entire proceeding will be private, so no facts found will be made public).

You obviously do not know much of this process in Norway.

 

[Auzie]

You obviously do not know much of this process in Norway.

I am curious to learn about it. What are the expectations?

 

[Kalllagtunet]

I am curious to learn about it. What are the expectations?

The process has already been described (probably several times (not by "crazystop" and the sources he refer)) in this and other threads on the subject so if you or others really are interested I think you will find relevant information on it.

 

[JonG]

You are right 631 P85D sold until end of october.

...and 631 Teslas equates to what, 400 normal cars




(and please take this as a light hearted joke)

 

[lolachampcar]

Nope, more like 150 from an emissions standpoint

(and please feel free to correct this to a more accurate comparison of crap spewing ICE to Model S)

 

[Jian Yang]

The best selling car in Norway is model S not model S P85D. Jokes not even funny

 

[Krugerrand]

The process has already been described (probably several times (not by "crazystop" and the sources he refer)) in this and other threads on the subject so if you or others really are interested I think you will find relevant information on it.

So what you're saying...the responsibility lies solely with Auzie to investigate and find the information she seeks. In other words, if someone was wanting to purchase say - oh, I don't know - a certain performance variant of the Model S that had a specific motor power horsepower, it would be the customer's sole responsibility to investigate. And just as Auzie asked you specifically (someone who apparently knows Norwegian consumer law and company advertising protocols/procedures/etc...) and you didn't want to answer, she should be fine with that and keep searching for answers. In other words, if a certain company didn't want to answer a question about motor power horsepower (even though they did eventually when asked) customers should be fine with that and keep investigating.

:biggrin:

 

[redox]

 

[jpet]

In my opinion, most P85D owners did not buy the car based on the advertised hp. 0-to-60, yes, hp, no (my opinion). Also, my reason (and opinion) tells me that the vast majority of P85D owners are not concerned with this issue. Once again, it's just my opinion, though, nothing more. I hope it's informed but perhaps not.

I have been following this and other threads on the performance models of the Model S because I am primarily interested in the "P" Tesla's.
What I have learned is that, in my opinion, there is a cultural difference between the North American market and the European market with regard to performance.
We in Europe are more interested in the hp number than in the 0-to-60. We don't have dragstrips here, we have race tracks. I cancelled my P85 order in exchange for a P85D immediately after the launch event because of the huge difference between the P85 and the P85D hp figure. Because of the cultural difference, IMO, the vast majority of P85D owners in Europe are very concerned with the missing hp issue.

 

[jerry33]

I have been following this and other threads on the performance models of the Model S because I am primarily interested in the "P" Tesla's.
What I have learned is that, in my opinion, there is a cultural difference between the North American market and the European market with regard to performance.
We in Europe are more interested in the hp number than in the 0-to-60. We don't have dragstrips here, we have race tracks. I cancelled my P85 order in exchange for a P85D immediately after the launch event because of the huge difference between the P85 and the P85D hp figure. Because of the cultural difference, IMO, the vast majority of P85D owners in Europe are very concerned with the missing hp issue.

That's probably true. However, 0-60 is a number that can be verified. HP is a squishy number that has been fudged many times over the years and is never to be trusted.

 

[Kalllagtunet]

So what you're saying...the responsibility lies solely with Auzie to investigate and find the information she seeks. In other words, if someone was wanting to purchase say - oh, I don't know - a certain performance variant of the Model S that had a specific motor power horsepower, it would be the customer's sole responsibility to investigate. And just as Auzie asked you specifically (someone who apparently knows Norwegian consumer law and company advertising protocols/procedures/etc...) and you didn't want to answer, she should be fine with that and keep searching for answers. In other words, if a certain company didn't want to answer a question about motor power horsepower (even though they did eventually when asked) customers should be fine with that and keep investigating.

:biggrin:

I can guarantee you that the information on this issue is much easier to find on this forum than to it was to find information on the missing HP on Tesla’s site at the P85D launch... The information I'm referring to are actually here (I’m still unsure if Mrs. Ausie actually was interested in more info on the Norwegian legal process) unlike info on the real horsepower on Tesla's site at that time...

:biggrin::wink:

Funny wasn’t it?

 

[P85DEE]

I have been following this and other threads on the performance models of the Model S because I am primarily interested in the "P" Tesla's.
What I have learned is that, in my opinion, there is a cultural difference between the North American market and the European market with regard to performance.
We in Europe are more interested in the hp number than in the 0-to-60. We don't have dragstrips here, we have race tracks. I cancelled my P85 order in exchange for a P85D immediately after the launch event because of the huge difference between the P85 and the P85D hp figure. Because of the cultural difference, IMO, the vast majority of P85D owners in Europe are very concerned with the missing hp issue.

I tend to agree that North American market and European market regional and cultural differences have a significant impact on member's perceptions when it comes to this matter.

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That's probably true. However, 0-60 is a number that can be verified. HP is a squishy number that has been fudged many times over the years and is never to be trusted.

Well, going back to regional differences, even 0-60 is "controversial".

In the U.S. we are used to the inclusion of rollout for arriving at the 0-60 spec. In Europe, rollout appears to not be accepted as much.