Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Question:
@P85DEE why do you continue to ignore the mountain of evidence

Answer:
I thought informing others as to the error in the reasoning and position that the car's horsepower was "overstated" by Tesla was part of the mission.

I figure if anyone else wants to come back for more, well then I'll do my part to give them another side of the matter.

Funny how we can interpret this differently. To me this shows that Tesla showed references to ECE R85 when the numbers had no missing info and no negative effect for them marketing-wise.

BUT as soon as the D-event was over they _removed_ these references from website and manuals.... Also removing battery limited horsepower-numbers.

I see that as the perfect evidence they knew exactly what they where doing here and chose to only list motor power as opposed to what they used to do.

- - - Updated - - -


Exactly.. Most of the people nagging on about this here conveniantly ignore those aspects or simply write them off as irellevant...

As P85DEE said, they are on a mission and they will be ready for anybody how wants to come back for more. There is no point discussing when that is their position, because they are not engaging to understand, but to take the opposite argument. Sad but true
 
Hear Hear. I hope Tesla gives all the dissatisfied P85D owners a free coffee mug and we can end this discussion.

The basic positions of both sides have been endlessly repeated and rehashed and neither side appears to be budging. Eventually the principal parties involved in this disagreement will get bored and move on. In what future year that will occur I have no idea.
In the meantime, Tesla keeps building amazing cars and selling them to enthusiastic new owners who know nothing about this dispute and are enjoying their cars. The vast majority of current owners seem pretty happy with their cars as evidenced by the Consumer Reports Tesla customer satisfaction figure of 97%. So this arcane argument over how to measure and portray motor power will have no impact on Tesla's future, in my opinion.
 
Can somebody provide an answer to this question only please:

"Why does Tesla use rollout for the P85D acceleration figure and not for the other models?"

Obviously they tried to make the performance difference between a 85D and a P85D look bigger.

So they use a scientific incorrect way to determine the 0-60 mph time for the P85D and used imaginary horsepower figures for the P85D. But at least now they are giving real horsepower.

The so called "Motor Trend Standard Rollout" -lol (quite possibly due to suggestions on this site) then became an escape route for Tesla to massage the numbers into some sort of retrospective plausibility.

Exactly.

Retrospective plausibility - this reminds me of all the excuses a small but very vocal group comes up with in this forum.
 
Of course I could have done more checking, but Tesla didnt provide all the necssary details. No reference to the ECE R85-standard. No reference to using roll-out. And most vitally all sales people said the car had 700hk here in Norway... Some of them even still do. Due dilligence needs common trust, and Tesla hid vital data from me. That makes the entire due dilligence-process heavily onesided and unfair. Here in Norway this is most likely also illegal as this is comparable to hiding vital data in fine print which isnt considered legal here.

Not only the Sales Advisors in Norway, Darthy. Here in Belgium they did exactly the same thing. The car was positioned as a 700 horsepower car. (Note that I did not add the "motor" word.) And they even added that with the P85D, Tesla was entering Lamborghini territory. M3s, M4s, M5s were no longer relevant to compare the P85D with since they were nowhere near capable of producing 700 hp. Not a single time did any Sales Advisor tell me that the car was not going to have full power available at highway speeds. We only found that out after we received the car.

I have the impression that a lot of the posters trying to defend Tesla in this thread did not go through our reality of actually talking to the Tesla Sales Advisors and ordering a P85D in October 2014. What's on the website is just a small part of the reality we as P85D owners experienced first hand. From our perspective, what we experienced are hard facts and based on those facts not just one but apparently a lot of P85D owners have come to the conclusion that they were deceived by Tesla.

Let me state something else. We are all Tesla fanboys and having to come out and state that we were deceived by Tesla is a big deal. I hate to be in this position. I don't want to be in this position. I want Tesla to make it right in some way or form so that we can get rid of our negative feelings and be 100% fanboys again because that's what we really want.
 
Has anyone here, on either side of the argument, ever admitted to being wrong?

At any time, on any issue.

:wink:

Typically, nobody is giving an inch here.

One person I saw here changed from the pro Tesla stance to the "Tesla engaged in deception" position. A position that is all but impossible to defend, knowing what we know now.

But as a rule, no one is giving an inch. And that's as it should be.
 
Last edited:
Well, I migrated from perfectly happy with my P85D to feeling the need for the car to perform better than my P+ did over say 30 mph.
[FONT=&amp]Concerning performance over 30 MPH, there is one little-discussed P90DL spec that is the most applicable. It may also be the most ambitious spec Tesla continues to put forth on the design studio: "Time to 155 miles per hour is now 20% faster than a standard Model S Performance".

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]I don't know how long it takes a P85D to go 0-155 but a 20% reduction would require a big increase in HP consistently delivered to the wheels throughout a wide range of speed above 30 MPH. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]To put this "20% faster" in context, the 1/4 mile time of 10.9 is only 6.4% faster than the 11.6 that P85Ds normally run. The new battery-limited 532 HP is only 15% more than 463 HP.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Unfortunately 0-155 will be difficult to measure and verify, unlike the numerous drag strip time slip and Vbox postings here on TMC.[/FONT]
 
It's really Sad...

This thread is really sad--it's like a train wreck shown repeatedly on the tv news channels. You've seen and heard it all numerous times, yet you can't look away, and you continue to watch--thinking maybe the final outcome will be different.

It's sad because everyone is really on the same team, the electric vehicle team--the mission (secret plan) is to get off of fossil-fueled vehicles and transition to a solar electric economy.

It's sad that after 1000 posts no common ground could be established in the light of changing and possibly confusing hp numbers and data (confusing for everyone except those supersmart fellows from Penn... just kidding P&V)

It's sad because it dilutes the signal-to-noise ratio of this site and makes it worth less.

Seems to me that if you desire an honest technical assessment of any issue, then you gotta check your motives (wallet) at the door--if you have skin in the game with TSLA stock and you are fighting to prevent any sort of 'bad' news leaking to the public, well your bias is poking out. And if you bought a P85D and paid a lot of extra money for stuff you didn't get, and you want a free car out of the deal, well then your bias is hanging out too. Don't be that guy--blinded by bias.

Any belief or position should be able to withstand and even welcome an honest and positive constructive criticism, but let's get off this trainwreck and join the Lola Champ--he said he's buying the first round, stay thirsty my friend.

The one funny thing of this mess was learning that ERM bought his first McLaren F1 when he was 28, and wrecked it before he was 30. We've all been there, done that in different ways--hey y'all watch this...i thought it was just a southern thang.
 
Last edited:
Why? No one here has all the answers. If someone can convince me of their position, I will give more than an inch. It take a big man to admit he is wrong. It takes a small mind to never change his position.

But if you aren't wrong, and if no one can convince you of their position then there is no reason to give an inch.

For me, nobody has done that yet. And it's looking bleak.

The fat lady may not have sung yet, but she's warming up, the ship may not have sailed yet, but it's pulled anchor, for those trying to prove to me that Tesla engaged in deception here.
 
This thread is really sad--it's like a train wreck shown repeatedly on the tv news channels. You've seen and heard it all numerous times, yet you can't look away, and you continue to watch--thinking maybe the final outcome will be different.

It's sad because everyone is really on the same team, the electric vehicle team--the mission (secret plan) is to get off of fossil-fueled vehicles and transition to a solar electric economy.

It's sad that after 1000 posts no common ground could be established in the light of changing and possibly confusing hp numbers and data (confusing for everyone except those supersmart fellows from Penn... just kidding P&V)

It's sad because it dilutes the signal-to-noise ratio of this site and makes it worth less.

Seems to me that if you desire an honest technical assessment of any issue, then you gotta check your motives (wallet) at the door--if you have skin in the game with TSLA stock and you are fighting to prevent any sort of 'bad' news leaking to the public, dwell your bias is poking out. And if you bought a P85D and paid a lot of extra money for stuff you didn't get, and you want a free car out of the deal, well then your bias is hanging out too. Don't be that guy--blinded by bias.

Any belief or position should be able to withstand and even welcome an honest and positive constructive criticism, but let's get off this trainwreck and join Lola--he said he's buying the first round, stay thirsty my friend.

The one funny thing of this mess was learning that ERM bought his first McLaren F1 when he was 28, and wrecked it before he was 30. We've all been there, done that in different ways--hey y'all watch this...i thought it was just a southern thang.

Ah.........yeah. Roll Tide. I'm from right next door, go Rebels.
 
Last edited:
It's not a train wreck. More like a very minor fender bender. That's not to say I don't appreciate the concerns of people who bought based mainly, or solely, on hp numbers. But I highly doubt this issue is having any measurable effect on Tesla's sales, nor will it in the future.