Stop the Press! Tesla announces REAL HP numbers for P85D and P90L

[P85DEE]

I dont believe there is one single magazine showing real numbers that actually back up the claim from Tesla here.

That's because most magazines use rollout.

And again, why the whole "rollout" business and trying to use it against Tesla, is a bunch of bunk.

And we most likely have hundreds of results showing the opposite both from users here and from magazines.

"Likely have hundreds", or do we "actually" have hundreds.

Big difference.

And aside from Consumer Reports, what other magazine has tested the P85D 0-60 from a standstill?

 

[vgrinshpun]

Nope. You're simply attempting to twist the words and facts in a feeble effort to try and suit the position of your argument, as you have been continuously for this entire debate. Fortunately the English language disagrees with you. The phrase "at launch" or similar was never used in any of the sentences regarding power, nor was it in any way implied that this increase in power was limited to launches. Further communication with Tesla on the matter, following the announcement, by myself and multiple others also disagree with you.

You just conveniently ignoring what was actually said.

I am not twisting anything.

He was not referring to the motor hp rating. He was referring to P85D producing 50% more power as compared to P85 during the initial burst of power, hence his reference to "like taking off the carrier deck"

 

[dsm363]

If we are parsing words then a description of a carrier deck paints a very different picture than 'on the autobahn or highway' which he didn't say.

 

[lolachampcar]

There are many different standards in this world. Two of them are attempting to leave people with the right impression by including way too much detail and a second might be crafting a sentence to have just enough of a stretch to a fact that you can mislead without being absolutely technically lying.

I really do not think Elon intended either. There is some showmanship so that pulls him away from the stark absolute boring truth. He also has integrity and is smart enough to know when he is fibbing to someone without actually legally lying to them. I really do believe, as another forum member said, that he got out way over his skis on the P85D launch and, for the first time, was not able to deliver with an OTA update. It could be as simple as that.

 

[wk057]

You just conveniently ignoring what was actually said.

I am not twisting anything.

He was not referring to the motor hp rating. He was referring to P85D producing 50% more power as compared to P85 during the initial burst of power, hence his reference to "like taking off the carrier deck"

For sh*ts and giggles I watched this portion of the video again just now.

No reasonable person would follow your interpretation. The power comments were in no way related only to initial acceleration. Acceleration related comments didn't happen until well after the power comments.

 

[MikeBur]

Than it appears that you were misunderstanding what he was saying for months. He was talking about the initial burst of power -"taking off a carrier deck" - and he was not talking about the *rating* of the motors, with or without considering limitation of the battery. He was talking about P85D having 50% more power than P85 at launch. At the lower speeds motor horsepower and horsepower are the same, as the battery power limitation does not come into play yet.

No, your OPINION is this. There's a difference based upon what was the information available at PURCHASE and a SEEMING behavior from TM to IMPLICITLY change definitions of measurement to compensate for the reality of the power-limited electrical infrastructure in the car.
Putting the onus of responsibility on consumers to sift through all of this is something either TM will understand that it has broken trust and address quickly or, I fear, others will litigate and drag a lot of the TM-internal discussions into the limelight. Having been on the receiving end of these types of "legal fishing expeditions"* it is amazing what percentage HAVE to settle as the email search terms cast a wide net and the results often are posted publicly :-(

*not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, and this is what my emotional feeling was, not a statement of fact ;-)

Dammit, I'm engaging more on this thread because I feel I have to now as otherwise it will be interpreted I'm aligned. Can't we just go down the pub and drink frosty beverages until resolved? ;-)

 

[dsm363]

There are many different standards in this world. Two of them are attempting to leave people with the right impression by including way too much detail and a second might be crafting a sentence to have just enough of a stretch to a fact that you can mislead without being absolutely technically lying.

I really do not think Elon intended either. There is some showmanship so that pulls him away from the stark absolute boring truth. He also has integrity and is smart enough to know when he is fibbing to someone without actually legally lying to them. I really do believe, as another forum member said, that he got out way over his skis on the P85D launch and, for the first time, was not able to deliver with an OTA update. It could be as simple as that.

And then were stuck on what to do after this furor erupted. Something I bet never crossed this mind. I agree I seriously doubt evil intent was there like some say. They have a firm technical basis (especially as no standard in US exists) to make their claims even if it is misleading.

 

[lolachampcar]

I'm game.
Beers on me.



dsm,
Imposible to prove but my gut tells me if they delivered MotorTrend P90DL performance via a free OTA upgrade to the P85D crowd, we would not be having this conversation right now. There may have been a few people still dissatisfied that the P85D/P90D did not accelerate at 60 mph like a powerful ICE but there would have been far fewer of them and they would have been more easily dismissed.

 

[dsm363]

691 HP (advertised P85D) / 470 HP (advertised P85) = 1.47x. There was no qualifier as to what speeds this power was available at.

I'm sure there are plenty of screenshots in this thread and others. Why are you asking a silly question you already know the answer to?

I know the 'hp motor power' numbers you listed. I'm asking where it says this power is available at all speeds.

 

[vgrinshpun]

For sh*ts and giggles I watched this portion of the video again just now.

No reasonable person would follow your interpretation. The power comments were in no way related only to initial acceleration. Acceleration related comments didn't happen until well after the power comments.

Like in the next sentence...

Everything improves about the car with dual motor. There is no technical drawback in this case

And we've also in the highest power version, P85D, actually retained the larger motor and added medium size motor to the front which basically gives a car half a gain as much power. Because a P85 was sort of pretty good, you know on a power front as probably bunch of you have those cars, but this car is nuts, it is like taking off the carrier deck. It's just bananas. It's like having your own personal roller-coaster

 

[MikeBur]

I will ask again...

What should the 0-60 time and 1/4 mile time be if the P85D actually had 691 horsepower. 2.6/2.7 and 10.5?

No one knows this information, as TM hasn't revealed it and it has not been verified. The conjecture has been ~2.5 secs 0-60 (rolling start) and 10.5 iirc*. I suspect your numbers are from the MT numbers for p90DL?

Caveat emptor: this is from my addled memory of multiple posts further up.

 

[darthy001]

That's because most magazines use rollout.

And again, why the whole "rollout" business and trying to use it against Tesla, is a bunch of bunk.



"Likely have hundreds", or do we "actually" have hundreds.

Big difference.

And aside from Consumer Reports, what other magazine has tested the P85D 0-60 from a standstill?

Edmunds, car and driver, every european magazine and the list goes on list from standstill. Edmunds even calls roll-out cheating.

Here on the forum we of course have fiksegt/dragtimes.com, wk057, sorka and a whole lot of others with vbox-results as well as many different dragstrip-slips showing the same. I am certain we have way more than 100vbox-measurements. The danes alone have 45runs with 15different cars. All of them confirm this. You can choose to ignore this if you'd like... Of course Tesla didnt feel the need for the use of roll-out until the D-event either.... Strange cooincidence...

 

[JonG]

In fact, 0.2 seconds are arguably moot. If you don't believe it, well then why are few are willing to pay 5 grand for a "0.2 second improvement" for the P85D Ludicrous upgrade?

If 0.2 seconds were were the be all and end all, then people would be lining up to pay 5 grand for it.

But we have all of this talk over 0.2 seconds of rollout.

So it's ok to pay 20k for what you think when ordering is around 2s difference but was later changed to 1.1s and then using the same testing method is less than 0.8s difference? It's only 0.8s. It's only 20k of someone's money.

for what it's worth I absolutely believe it's deliberate and if they had any integrity the first time a magazine published 691hp they should have clarified the matter to avoid doubt. They've allowed doubt to exist for a year..

 

[wk057]

Sounds like you need to get in a P85D on a carrier deck and do a launch off the edge... seems like that would calm some of the noise in this thread at least. lol.

I'm done here. It's obvious that the facts don't matter to the naysayers, and I'm done wasting my time arguing with walls.

I would appreciate if no one lure me back to this thread, please.

Carry on living in your fantasy world where the P85D was appropriately advertised.

*Unsubscribe*

 

[thegruf]

Seeing as this thread has now moved onto acceleration, with the inevitable result.

Can somebody provide an answer to this question only please:

"Why does Tesla use rollout for the P85D acceleration figure and not for the other models?"

 

[vgrinshpun]

No, your OPINION is this. There's a difference based upon what was the information available at PURCHASE and a SEEMING behavior from TM to IMPLICITLY change definitions of measurement to compensate for the reality of the power-limited electrical infrastructure in the car.
Putting the onus of responsibility on consumers to sift through all of this is something either TM will understand that it has broken trust and address quickly or, I fear, others will litigate and drag a lot of the TM-internal discussions into the limelight. Having been on the receiving end of these types of "legal fishing expeditions"* it is amazing what percentage HAVE to settle as the email search terms cast a wide net and the results often are posted publicly :-(

*not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, and this is what my emotional feeling was, not a statement of fact ;-)

Dammit, I'm engaging more on this thread because I feel I have to now as otherwise it will be interpreted I'm aligned. Can't we just go down the pub and drink frosty beverages until resolved? ;-)

It is not my opinion, it what EM said. I would be glad to agree with you if you point me to his actual words that imply that he was talking about motor hp *rating*, and not the power available from P85D vs P85 during the launch.

 

[lolachampcar]

My guess...
US company now with a car being compared to other super high performance cars all of which mags like MotorTrend 0-60 with 1 foot roll out. Once you make it into sub 4 second territory, you best be using roll out or you will look .2 to .5 seconds slower even though you have the same performance (0-60).

 

[dsm363]

Seeing as this thread has now moved onto acceleration, with the inevitable result.

Can somebody provide an answer to this question only please:

"Why does Tesla use rollout for the P85D acceleration figure and not for the other models?"

Maybe they decided now that the performance version of the car dips into the low 3 second realm and compared against cars in the US that do use the rollout it put them at a disadvantage. They didn't do that on prior versions for whatever reason. It would have been nice if that was transparent from the beginning.

 

[MikeBur]

It is not my opinion, it what was EM said. I would be glad to agree with you if you point me to his actual words that imply that he was talking about motor hp *rating*, and not the power available from P85D vs P85 during the launch.

Sorry, this is in separate parts of the same announcement. It is your OPINION that these two parts were referring to launch only. It is the OPINION of others it does not. Your statement is NOT FACT and continuing to state so without being respectful of others is fanning the embers.

/edit add: I'm also surprised you are saying Elon didn't mention motor hp rating, though I believe you

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe they decided now that the performance version of the car dips into the low 3 second realm and compared against cars in the US that do use the rollout it put them at a disadvantage. They didn't do that on prior versions for whatever reason. It would have been nice if that was transparent from the beginning.

100% agree

 

[mkspeedr]

No one knows this information, as TM hasn't revealed it and it has not been verified. The conjecture has been ~2.5 secs 0-60 (rolling start) and 10.5 iirc*. I suspect your numbers are from the MT numbers for p90DL?

Caveat emptor: this is from my addled memory of multiple posts further up.

No not Motor Trend 30+ years of drag racing.