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Question for Porsche owners - is the P85D really the same drive or better?
- Thread starter TheLex
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Krugerrand
Meow
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I realized the other day that pre-heating the cabin is a waste. In an ICE vehicle, "warming-up" the car makes sense because it takes a while for the heat to get up to temperature an getting that "headstart" helps. Since the Model S has electric heating, it is fairly instant. When you pre-heat the cabin in the Model S, almost all of the heat escapes when you open the door, especially, if the whole family is getting into the car. The cabin heats-up very quickly without pre-heating.
It depends on what you define as "waste." If you mean total, absolute energy use, then sure, it's a waste.
If you are concerned about range, pre-heating the cabin can make a decent difference-- particularly if you preheat to a temperature above what you would normally drive at, then drive with the climate control off for the first half hour or so of your trip.
In my case, I just like to be comfortable, and I don't really care whether I'm "wasting" a little bit of energy or not. I find a preheated cabin to be much more comfortable on a cold day. This afternoon, I'll preheat mine off of batteries before I go home, because I'll only be using about 10% of the range anyway, for my whole day's driving.
If you are concerned about range, pre-heating the cabin can make a decent difference-- particularly if you preheat to a temperature above what you would normally drive at, then drive with the climate control off for the first half hour or so of your trip.
In my case, I just like to be comfortable, and I don't really care whether I'm "wasting" a little bit of energy or not. I find a preheated cabin to be much more comfortable on a cold day. This afternoon, I'll preheat mine off of batteries before I go home, because I'll only be using about 10% of the range anyway, for my whole day's driving.
mnx
2018 M3P
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
I second the thought of trying a Roadster. The P85D is an incredible car and has a long list of advantages over the Roadster, including being significantly quicker. But I still find the Roadster to be more fun to drive. It has better steering feel, it's more than a ton lighter, opening the pano roof doesn't compare to taking the top off, and while it may not seem better from looking at a spec sheet it feels better when you're sitting down very low in that little tub cocooned by the car.
My only caveat is that the above assumes regular street driving (OP mentioned using it as a daily driver). If you take a Roadster to the track, you might run in to heat issues and you will definitely run in to understeer unless you modify the suspension. After more than 5 years with a Roadster, I've never had a heat issue and I only ran into understeer once, while doing a tiny autocross course as part of a driving school.
My only caveat is that the above assumes regular street driving (OP mentioned using it as a daily driver). If you take a Roadster to the track, you might run in to heat issues and you will definitely run in to understeer unless you modify the suspension. After more than 5 years with a Roadster, I've never had a heat issue and I only ran into understeer once, while doing a tiny autocross course as part of a driving school.
Jaff
Active Member
To quote a long term, well respected member here who could really "turn a phrase"...
"The 911 is a rumbling block of inefficiency" ...
He was an ex 911 owner who ditched it in favour of a Roadster.
We don't hear from him much anymore, but Merry Christmas SByer!
"The 911 is a rumbling block of inefficiency" ...
He was an ex 911 owner who ditched it in favour of a Roadster.
We don't hear from him much anymore, but Merry Christmas SByer!
Depends on where you live. Over here, no pre-heating means scraping ice off the windows and having regen completely disabled. Also the seats are friggin' cold since the interior is at maybe 15F.
Pre-heating makes all the difference. No, the cabin does not drop from 70F back to 15F just by opening the door. Most of the heat is held in the interior materials, seats etc., not in the air. Compare with opening the fridge, releasing the cold air does not make everything room temperature instantly.
I think the P85D is quite capable of that... Not sure I'd drive either as a rally car, but for paved roads...
Thanks to all who contributed. I just placed a deposit on a used 2011 Porsche Carrera GTS. It's a 911 with the powerkit that bumps up hp to 408, and it's got all sorts of handling goodies as standard. I'm going to use this as my DD until Tesla comes out with the S85D with the Next Gen Recaro seats with seat ventilation comes out. I thought about it and really with a big sedan, I don't need 0-60 in 3 sec, especially if I've got the family in there. I'd rather have every last bit of range I can get.
So I'm waiting on getting a good PPI on the 911 and then the car will be mine
Meanwhile our new garage will be all wired up and ready for the Tesla dual charger on the wall :biggrin:
So I'm waiting on getting a good PPI on the 911 and then the car will be mine
Meanwhile our new garage will be all wired up and ready for the Tesla dual charger on the wall :biggrin:
Actually I did not. My reasons? Well for one, I found a killer deal on a Carrera GTS - the sexy widebody version of the 911. I've always wanted a 911. Plus I figure the Tesla is a family sedan and I'm not sure I need 0-60 in 3 sec with kids in the back. And I really want/expect ventilated seats and the next Gen seats in the S85D which has a greater range. As I posted earlier, I'm still going to get a Tesla. It will either be a Model S or a Model X. Our new garage is getting all wired up for one :biggrin:
I'm coming directly from driving a 997 every day to the P85D. These specific things you mention are absolutely much better in the Porsche than the Tesla. The steering is extremely responsive in the 911 the the whole groove is just much more sporty. If those are the specific parameters you are focused on, you can't beat a 997, expecially the turbo or the C4S. However, I'm very happily making the switch. The handling of the P85D is surprisingly good, especially when compared to more pedestrian alternatives than the 911. The instant-on throttle response is unlike anything I've ever driven, which thus far really distracts me from everything else. I'm actually astonished at how much more fun I'm having in it that I did the 911.
I've owned and own a few Porsche 911's from many generations. I also own a Model S 85. I love my Tesla, but there are things I don't love about it. It's not a finished car in my opinion. You need to have a reason to buy one. Here is what I mean...
Go Green - If your lifestyle is green in nature this is your car, slap on some solar panels and drive all you want with the power of the sun
In a Jam? - If you have a long commute and there is a car pool lane this is your dream car (this is my archetype), save money and save time by jumping in the carpool lane
0-60 freak - If you have a thirst for 0-60 figures the P85D is without a doubt the best car for the money hands down
If you're anything but one of those three types of buyers I am willing to bet you're going to get annoyed in some way with the Model S because you'll have a hard time amortizing it's cost. It's not near as luxurious as it's competitors, and before people bash please be open minded and experience the other cars in their current generations before you make a comment. Tesla is on the right path, it's going to be an amazing car that can compete on all levels with the Europeans one day, it's just not today. There are things that make BMW, Audi, MBZ great that Tesla has to work on, and it is. I jumped into the brand for two reasons, 1. I have a long commute, this car saves me $850 a month and 2. I want to be a part of something as close to the start as possible. By buying into Tesla in not only the stock market but also in their products it makes me feel like I'm supporting the brand. Also let's not forget to mention something about your selection, the 997.2 GTS. I have said this before and I will say it again, that car will go up in value in the next 10 years. It's such an amazing car! It's the perfect balance between what a daily should be and what a canyon carver is. Let's not forget to mention that if you go with a manual transmission it's chances of increasing in value is greater since the GT3 in the 991 chassis only comes in PDK. Although shift times are faster in PDK there are those who just prefer to grab a fist full of gears and drop the clutch.
With all of this being said comparing a 997.2 GTS to a Model S is like comparing soup to a salad or a dog to a cat. I personally think you made the right choice given what was in your stable previously.
Just my two cents after you've made your decision.
Go Green - If your lifestyle is green in nature this is your car, slap on some solar panels and drive all you want with the power of the sun
In a Jam? - If you have a long commute and there is a car pool lane this is your dream car (this is my archetype), save money and save time by jumping in the carpool lane
0-60 freak - If you have a thirst for 0-60 figures the P85D is without a doubt the best car for the money hands down
If you're anything but one of those three types of buyers I am willing to bet you're going to get annoyed in some way with the Model S because you'll have a hard time amortizing it's cost. It's not near as luxurious as it's competitors, and before people bash please be open minded and experience the other cars in their current generations before you make a comment. Tesla is on the right path, it's going to be an amazing car that can compete on all levels with the Europeans one day, it's just not today. There are things that make BMW, Audi, MBZ great that Tesla has to work on, and it is. I jumped into the brand for two reasons, 1. I have a long commute, this car saves me $850 a month and 2. I want to be a part of something as close to the start as possible. By buying into Tesla in not only the stock market but also in their products it makes me feel like I'm supporting the brand. Also let's not forget to mention something about your selection, the 997.2 GTS. I have said this before and I will say it again, that car will go up in value in the next 10 years. It's such an amazing car! It's the perfect balance between what a daily should be and what a canyon carver is. Let's not forget to mention that if you go with a manual transmission it's chances of increasing in value is greater since the GT3 in the 991 chassis only comes in PDK. Although shift times are faster in PDK there are those who just prefer to grab a fist full of gears and drop the clutch.
With all of this being said comparing a 997.2 GTS to a Model S is like comparing soup to a salad or a dog to a cat. I personally think you made the right choice given what was in your stable previously.
Just my two cents after you've made your decision.
I'm a very new Tesla (P85D) owner but I can give you a quick comparison. My other cars are a 2012 Carrera 4GTS and an Audi S7. From a driveline perspective there is no car that compares to the Tesla. However after the initial torque rush of the Tesla the S7 feels quite similar. The 911 has an identical 0-60 as the S7 but it feels completely different. Ripping full throttle in the 911 is just a happy experience.
In terms of handling the 911 is so perfectly balanced and feels as if it was carved from one block of titanium. Your hands feel directly connected to the payment through the beefy steering wheel. Everything is just tight as could be. The sport settings completely change the nature of the car. You can rip through turns with complete confidence and slide it in a predictable tail happy way.
the Audi is the best car I have ever owned. It rips and handles beautifully and is about the best daily driver I could imagine. I love the heads up display. Even though it is fantastic it does gulp gas and feels noticeably heavier and bigger than the 911 and doesn't inspire the same confidence. Yet still drift able. The 911 with snow tires is a better snow car than the Audi.
The Tesla is the most amazing driveline and I love it. However I only have 150 miles in it so I can't really compare. The interior is missing some features that I really like. So far it handles very similarly to the S7. And the Tesla is just such a cool experience every time. I'm confident that it will become the best car I've ever owned.
Right now my garage is a happy place even though I'll have to sell the Audi. I feel so lucky to be able to drive a Tesla. I had just been waiting for the D.
In terms of handling the 911 is so perfectly balanced and feels as if it was carved from one block of titanium. Your hands feel directly connected to the payment through the beefy steering wheel. Everything is just tight as could be. The sport settings completely change the nature of the car. You can rip through turns with complete confidence and slide it in a predictable tail happy way.
the Audi is the best car I have ever owned. It rips and handles beautifully and is about the best daily driver I could imagine. I love the heads up display. Even though it is fantastic it does gulp gas and feels noticeably heavier and bigger than the 911 and doesn't inspire the same confidence. Yet still drift able. The 911 with snow tires is a better snow car than the Audi.
The Tesla is the most amazing driveline and I love it. However I only have 150 miles in it so I can't really compare. The interior is missing some features that I really like. So far it handles very similarly to the S7. And the Tesla is just such a cool experience every time. I'm confident that it will become the best car I've ever owned.
Right now my garage is a happy place even though I'll have to sell the Audi. I feel so lucky to be able to drive a Tesla. I had just been waiting for the D.
+1 Colin Powell
After 1800 miles on two P85Ds and 16,000 miles on 2014 911 Carrera 4s, I sold the 911.
One of my P85Ds handles as solid as the 911, the other is floaty more like P85. I have a service appt to have it checked.
P85D tire width isn't what it is on 911 (relative to vehicle weight) so there will be a limit, but the properly tuned P85D just like the 911 lets me get close to that limit with confidence, and is just as fun to drive on curvy roads.
Since not all P85Ds come the same from the factory, if the one you drove seems floaty, drive another. I am amazed, truly amazed at how solid my good P85D is. I wasn't planning to sell the 911 but did after experiencing this.
After 1800 miles on two P85Ds and 16,000 miles on 2014 911 Carrera 4s, I sold the 911.
One of my P85Ds handles as solid as the 911, the other is floaty more like P85. I have a service appt to have it checked.
P85D tire width isn't what it is on 911 (relative to vehicle weight) so there will be a limit, but the properly tuned P85D just like the 911 lets me get close to that limit with confidence, and is just as fun to drive on curvy roads.
Since not all P85Ds come the same from the factory, if the one you drove seems floaty, drive another. I am amazed, truly amazed at how solid my good P85D is. I wasn't planning to sell the 911 but did after experiencing this.
You might check the torque on the lug nuts. I've heard that can cause floatiness in a Model S, P or not.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
There have also been reports of loose suspension bits in the rear providing that symptom, though not any recently. I'm sure Tesla can track it down for him.
