Opinion: Tesla should partner with another OEM for NACS or be forced into CCS someday.

CCS has been adopted, however shortsightedly, as the charging standard for North America. As all other manufacturers move forward with CCS ports in random, non-optimal locations over the years, Tesla may some day be forced to have CCS charging ports in their vehicles just as has happened in Europe.

We can hope and insist and be as certain as we'd like that this won't happen, but as legacy automakers and government all team up...there won't be much Tesla can do if a line is drawn in the sand and laws are passed.

I think it would be wise for Tesla to reach out to Ford for example(could be GM, or Dodge, whatever), and suggest a partnership where they standardize the charging port location on their new models to match Tesla's, and to implement Tesla's NACS plug. There would be a benefit to Tesla in terms of revenue generated from SC's, and a *massive* benefit to any OEM that can then claim full access to the largest, best, most reliable charging network in existence.

I don't see there being any HUGE downside to Tesla....no one manufacturer really has enough EV's on the road to move the needle all that much in terms of significantly clogging up SC locations. The upside for a Legacy OEM would be massive, and would most likely eliminate the possibility of the big three teaming up with government and forcing Tesla' hand with regards to CCS.

It's also easy enough to just toss a CCS adapter in with each car sold or make one available at low cost if desired. Tesla always has the option of excluding their busiest locations where extra traffic might cause congestion.

This would also support Tesla's objective of electrifying the world. I don't think this would significantly affect Tesla's sales, especially considering the limited production from Legacies for the foreseeable future. They could even team up with a smaller competitor like Mercedes or BMW.

Thoughts?

"Charging Tesla Model S" by jeffcooper86 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[israndy]

I read at a Rivian Blog just before the GM decision yesterday someone posted a response to Tesla plugs being easier to manage, that we should just have charge stations hire someone to stand there and help people plug in CCS plugs (like they have in NJ/Oregon to pump people’s gas).

People can be really stuck in their thinking…

 

[jjrandorin]

Where did all the people go that were bemoaning the opening up of the supercharger network as the downfall of Tesla?

They just havent found this information out yet. I am sure they will be out in force, complete with pictures of holiday rush superchargers put forth as "standard ops" like we have seen before.

 

[Rocky_H]

Where did all the people go that were bemoaning the opening up of the supercharger network as the downfall of Tesla?

They just havent found this information out yet. I am sure they will be out in force, complete with pictures of holiday rush superchargers put forth as "standard ops" like we have seen before.

It's still there and not uncommon and is from reasonable people. A friend of mine who has been a Tesla owner for a couple of years just added a comment on my post about this GM news expressing this exact worry again, that Superchargers will get too crowded because of this and cause lines.

 

[Yelobird]

It's still there and not uncommon and is from reasonable people. A friend of mine who has been a Tesla owner for a couple of years just added a comment on my post about this GM news expressing this exact worry again, that Superchargers will get too crowded because of this and cause lines.

And he would be wrong.

 

[Rocky_H]

And he would be wrong.

She. And I did point out what is frequently being brought up here--that Tesla is still producing cars at a rate an order of magnitude larger than all other makers put together. So to alleviate this concern would be to ask Tesla to stop building cars to not overload their own stations.

 

[jboy210]

I read at a Rivian Blog just before the GM decision yesterday someone posted a response to Tesla plugs being easier to manage, that we should just have charge stations hire someone to stand there and help people plug in CCS plugs (like they have in NJ/Oregon to pump people’s gas).

People can be really stuck in their thinking…

How very 1950s of the poster.

 

[TunaBug]

The rest of us knew

I read Mary Barra said they were gonna spend $750M on EV Charging Expansion, but today said they will save $400M with this deal. Does that mean they are paying Tesla $350M for this change? You can build a lotta Superchargers for that amount of scratch.

I don't think all of the difference. "...on EV charging expansion" sounds to me like building charging stations. Whereas the comment about saving $350M wasn't qualified as being for charging expansion. Probably part of the difference will be money to Tesla. But they probably also spend money specifically on CCS. Every support call that starts with "EA WTF!?" (and CCS charging is so shitty it probably gets attention all the way to C-level, which turns into an opportunity cost). Perhaps they spend money on software development, stuff that EA should have done but failed at, but that they can no lean on Tesla for.

I'm using "EA" here collectively for the CCS industry, but since EA seems to lead in terms of bad experiences I'm leveraging them for a label.

 

[Allx]

She. And I did point out what is frequently being brought up here--that Tesla is still producing cars at a rate an order of magnitude larger than all other makers put together. So to alleviate this concern would be to ask Tesla to stop building cars to not overload their own stations.

Personally it’s not the amount of non-tesla vehicles that’s concerning but the fact that 800v vehicles can be tricky to charge quickly on 400v and the wrong-sided charge ports that can mean 2 spots getting used for one vehicle.
On busy travel weekends I wouldn’t think it’s yearly production numbers that matter as much as how quickly vehicles charge and free that stall for the next car.

It’s a good thing to help the EV transition no doubt and I’m hoping I’m wrong with regards to the first couple of years opening up chargers being bumpy.

 

[israndy]

Since the WH released the statement that they insist that there be 4 CCS style charge stalls at all NEVI funded sites Tesla could just put the 4 Magic Docs at the right end of the lot, that would limit any double spaces to that end, and if multiple CCS cars show they would occupy the stalls to the right of the charger that a Tesla couldn't, if there was an additional space at the end than all the chargers could be occupied by 4 CCS cars, then that space empty, and then the rest filled with Teslas

 

[MP3Mike]

Since the WH released the statement that they insist that there be 4 CCS style charge stalls at all NEVI funded sites Tesla could just put the 4 Magic Docs at the right end of the lot, that would limit any double spaces to that end, and if multiple CCS cars show they would occupy the stalls to the right of the charger that a Tesla couldn't, if there was an additional space at the end than all the chargers could be occupied by 4 CCS cars, then that space empty, and then the rest filled with Teslas

You are still missing that MagicDock enabled Superchargers still do not meet the NEVI requirements for funding. And so far Tesla has showed zero interest in getting NEVI funding. (It appears that Tesla got non-NEVI funding from the government to install MagicDocks on ~3,500 stalls.)

And even if they did want NEVI funding there are 10x more contractors signing up for funding than there are available contracts. So it is unlikely that Tesla would get much of it.

 

[tonybelding]

You are still missing that MagicDock enabled Superchargers still do not meet the NEVI requirements for funding. And so far Tesla has showed zero interest in getting NEVI funding. (It appears that Tesla got non-NEVI funding from the government to install MagicDocks on ~3,500 stalls.)

I agree that NEVI has been overblown. What's spelled out in those rules is so different from Tesla's regular Supercharger business, that the cost of conforming may not be worth it to them at all. Also, NEVI is not the future of America's charging scene. It may seem like a big deal at the moment, but it's a drop in the bucket compared with the total buildout that is needed country-wide.

On the other hand, NEVI is most definitely a big deal for the other charging networks whose business model (for the moment) is basically scooping up grants and subsidies, while actually selling electrons to drivers is almost a footnote. (Personally, I suspect this is why so many pedestals are broken. When there's a subsidy payment for keeping them running, then they'll all get fixed.)

 

[israndy]

I don't exactly know how that's gonna work, the uptime is required to be 96% but after they fund the site there is no more money, are they gonna wait to fund the site until they see that it's up for a year? How are they gonna get their money BACK when they are not up 96% of the time? If they just looked at each vendor's history with uptime they wouldn't be able to give the money to anyone but Tesla...

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I agree that NEVI has been overblown. What's spelled out in those rules is so different from Tesla's regular Supercharger business, that the cost of conforming may not be worth it to them at all. Also, NEVI is not the future of America's charging scene. It may seem like a big deal at the moment, but it's a drop in the bucket compared with the total buildout that is needed country-wide.

On the other hand, NEVI is most definitely a big deal for the other charging networks whose business model (for the moment) is basically scooping up grants and subsidies, while actually selling electrons to drivers is almost a footnote. (Personally, I suspect this is why so many pedestals are broken. When there's a subsidy payment for keeping them running, then they'll all get fixed.)

NEVI was a big deal for Tesla. Not to grab the subsidies, but because it provided more subisidy to CCS.

Here, I've watched Dieselgate CCS locations expand coverage across Maine.
The final sites are getting done, include 1 location that Tesla doesn't have.
Funding via the American Rescue Plan Act will lead to more in the North and they're hoping Downeast, including a number of locations that Tesla doesn't have at all.
ElectifyAmerica is in Cycle 3 of 4, and the final Cycle, Cycle 4 will begin next year and go to Cycle 6 through June 2026. Here Cycle 4 will push EA further north on I-95.

But that would have been it.

However, NEVI adds $3B or more in funding nationally. It's a bigger fund for DCFC than Dieselgate and has measures in it specifically to tackle some of the current problems.

Here, NEVI will mean better I-95 and US-1 charging and, unless Tesla adds further locations better coverage and density than Tesla. I'd expect similar results across the country.

To me, NACS is Tesla accepting that the moat is going, and pushing for support on the NEVI chargers, and the best possible outcome of their plug being the standard so they don't face a potential cost of shifting to CCS1.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

ElectifyAmerica is in Cycle 3 of 4, and the final Cycle, Cycle 4 will begin next year and go to Cycle 6 through June 2026. Here Cycle 4 will push EA further north on I-95.

Just redundant text from editing in that sentence.

 

[kayak1]

NEVI was a big deal for Tesla. Not to grab the subsidies, but because it provided more subisidy to CCS.

Here, I've watched Dieselgate CCS locations expand coverage across Maine.
The final sites are getting done, include 1 location that Tesla doesn't have.

What is the location of this charger?
Is it in Newport? We should have a Tesla installation in Newport 2024 according to the Findus map

Supercharger - Newport, ME

A notation in the Newport, ME select board meeting minutes from 5/4/22 states Tesla charging stations are coming from the Hannaford Supermarket in town. The Tesla Coming Soon map now shows this location as a Q2 2023 target opening. From the 2/2/22 select board minutes: 44 Moosehead Trail...

teslamotorsclub.com

It's my understanding that the NEVI locations in Belfast and Bucksport are not yet open.

Tesla really needs to add locations on RT1 and something that would allow travel up into Baxters and the Allagash Wilderness.

 

[MP3Mike]

It's my understanding that the NEVI locations in Belfast and Bucksport are not yet open.

There isn't a single NEVI location anywhere even started. Not a single cent of money has been granted yet. It will likely be late next year before the first NEVI charger goes online.

 

[WyoDude]

RE “NACS” - the fight is over. Tesla lost, right or wrong. No other manufacturer has any interest in or motivation to adopt a “standard” unilaterally controlled by Tesla.

Not going to happen. That ship sailed a long time ago and has already arrived. In addition to their proprietary connector, Tesla clearly designed the Supercharger stations to be tailored to their vehicles only, without future planning for open use. That's evidenced by the station location being on the front vs side, and the short cables. A significant number of CCS stations will be installed over the next few years.

The ship has sailed.

Tesla should have done it a long time ago.

 

[ucmndd]

I ate my crow already.

I will admit this post aged like warm milk. It appears a bunch of you are finding it.

Color me surprised and corrected.