Hosting Tesla (Super)Charger, the offer and expense.

[MontyFloyd]

Years ago Tesla created the "Host a Supercharger" offer with info on hosting commercial locations.

Soon after Ford jumped on the NACS bandwagon, Tesla started responding to all the "Host a Supercharger" requests.
Except it is only for Destination chargers, and seems to be at cost by property owner.

My friend who has a store location right off a busy interstate received the same letter as Dana (posted in another thread).

The first letter received was
Date: Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 11:40 AM
Subject: Tesla Charging Inquiry

Thank you for reaching out to Tesla! I am following up on your inquiry to order Tesla chargers for your property.

Tesla NACS Wall Connectors are $425 + tax and Tesla J1772 Wall Connectors are $550 + tax. These are the industry-leading Level 2 EV chargers.

Program Benefits

• Add an amenity for your guests or residents
• Drive new customer traffic to your location if you choose to be added on Tesla’s find us page and in-vehicle navigation
• New revenue stream made possible by paid charging sessions for Tesla and non-Tesla drivers
  • You set the price of charging, Tesla collects driver payment and remits 100% of revenue back to you quarterly
  • Tesla’s sole fee is one penny per kWh, invoiced annually
• Access to a Tesla for Business account with session data, monthly usage statements and pricing controls at your fingertips
• White-glove service includes hardware expertise, order processing, preferred installer pricing, and opening support for your property

Requirements
· Minimum of six Wall Connectors (at least 50% NACS plugs – now also supported by Ford!)
· Approved budget (Note the average cost to install 6-12 chargers is $25,000-$50,000 and will vary depending on available power and proximity to parking spaces where units are installed)
Next Steps

• Confirm the number of chargers you will buy (Six minimum per site, the average installation size across North America is 12 units)
• Begin your order and onboarding with Tesla for Business by using this form
• Review and sign your agreement with Tesla for your new chargers
• Prepare your team for installation
• To obtain an installation quote from our certified installer in your region, reply to this email and our team will be in touch.

Looking forward to welcoming you to our Tesla charging network soon! Let me know if you have any questions about this process.

A follow up letter announcing MORE companies joining NACS.
Date: Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Tesla Charging Inquiry

Following up to see if we could start an order of Tesla Level 2 chargers for your property.

Yesterday, Nissan announced they will adopt Tesla’s NACS plug type on future vehicles! There is now a broad coalition of automakers behind the North American Charging Standard (NACS) that includes Ford, GM, Mercedes, Nissan, Volvo, Rivian and Polestar.

Spoiler: more of boilerplate letter

Tesla NACS Wall Connectors are only $475 + tax for the industry-leading Level 2 charger. You can start an order with Tesla for Business by using this form. We look forward to setting you up as demand grows rapidly for these units.
Program Benefits

• Add an amenity needed by drivers
• Bring new customer traffic to your location if you choose to be added on Tesla’s find us page and in-vehicle navigation
• Create a new revenue stream from paid charging sessions for Tesla and non-Tesla drivers
  • You set the desired price of charging, Tesla collects driver payment and remits 100% of revenue back to you quarterly
  • Tesla’s sole fee is one penny per kWh, invoiced annually
  • Clear path to return your investment
• Access to a Tesla for Business account with session data, monthly usage statements and pricing controls at your fingertips

· One complimentary Tesla-branded metal sign included with each charger

• White-glove service includes hardware expertise, project planning guidance, preferred installer pricing, and opening support for your property

Program Requirements

• Minimum of six chargers (at least 50% NACS plug type)
• Budget for installation (Note the average cost to install 6-12 chargers is $25,000-$50,000 and will vary depending on the electrical work to available power and proximity to parking spaces where units are installed)

Looking forward to welcoming you to our Tesla charging network soon! Let me know if you have any questions about this process.

So questions:
1. Installing 6-12 chargers for $25,000-$50,000
I assume this is only the cost for adding a transformer, breakers, lines, and labor to install all this equipment, and NOT paying Tesla anything except for the 6 to 12 charger themselves.

2. The owner of installation can set the charging cost, with Tesla only asking for "sole fee is one penny per kWh"
What is the typical rates a Destination charger, well, charges?

3. The hard question is what is the traffic one can expect, especially with more BEV on road? The location is off IH-2 between McAllen and Harlingen (south Texas)
The location will show up in all Tesla cars, and likely non-Tesla cars too (will install a few J1772 connect)

4. Overall question, IS this a good investment for a small retail location? Anyone else install a charger and see more visitors? Is there an ROI available?

 

[EVSince2011]

Years ago Tesla created the "Host a Supercharger" offer with info on hosting commercial locations.

Soon after Ford jumped on the NACS bandwagon, Tesla started responding to all the "Host a Supercharger" requests.
Except it is only for Destination chargers, and seems to be at cost by property owner.

My friend who has a store location right off a busy interstate received the same letter as Dana (posted in another thread).

The first letter received was
Date: Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 11:40 AM
Subject: Tesla Charging Inquiry




A follow up letter announcing MORE companies joining NACS.
Date: Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Tesla Charging Inquiry


So questions:
1. Installing 6-12 chargers for $25,000-$50,000
I assume this is only the cost for adding a transformer, breakers, lines, and labor to install all this equipment, and NOT paying Tesla anything except for the 6 to 12 charger themselves.

2. The owner of installation can set the charging cost, with Tesla only asking for "sole fee is one penny per kWh"
What is the typical rates a Destination charger, well, charges?

3. The hard question is what is the traffic one can expect, especially with more BEV on road? The location is off IH-2 between McAllen and Harlingen (south Texas)
The location will show up in all Tesla cars, and likely non-Tesla cars too (will install a few J1772 connect)

4. Overall question, IS this a good investment for a small retail location? Anyone else install a charger and see more visitors? Is there an ROI available?

Destination chargers are good for a place where someone will spend a chunk of time, like a motel. I look for motels with destination chargers where I can charge overnight. Generally motels do not charge their guests to use the chargers.

For a store or restaurant, they're not likely to attract much business as they provide 20 to 30 miles of range for every hour a car is plugged in. I don't think the Tesla chargers have a way to bill the users unless that was recently added. I have a destination charger at home. The price would be very good if it could bill the customer.

Someone on a road trip is going to want a Supercharger or other high speed charger.

 

[Earl]

For a store or restaurant, they're not likely to attract much business as they provide 20 to 30 miles of range for every hour a car is plugged in. I don't think the Tesla chargers have a way to bill the users unless that was recently added. I have a destination charger at home. The price would be very good if it could bill the customer.

Someone on a road trip is going to want a Supercharger or other high speed charger.

I'm not sure I totally agree. If there were a 'nicer' place to eat that has a destination charger, I might choose to stop there on a trip, rather than Supercharge and fast food it. Clearly, the faster the destination charger, the more tempting. I'd recommend at least a 48 amp one (Tesla or J-1772), not a cheap 30 amp EVSE though. An 80 amp might be put you out front but that's only speculating that the CT will be able to charge at that AC level since there probably aren't enough old Model S or Roadsters on the road that can use the full 80 amps.

 

[RTPEV]

I'm not sure I agree either.

I recently spent part of a week at a beach in NC and with the excessive heat, the car was chewing through battery like crazy with cabin overheat on (yes, I know I could have turned it off, but we just had a new glass roof installed--long story--and I didn't want to expose it to crazy high interior temps yet). There were three charging stations on the island, two of which were not particularly convenient (unless you were a pickleball player, and then yes, they were incredibly convenient). I most certainly would have patronized a business (restaurant, store) that offered me a way to get 30-60 miles back to overcome my losses. We went to a neighboring community for lunch and they had ZERO chargers (except at a hotel) in their town, even though they had a nice little area with restaurants and shops. Had it not been for the fact that the rest of my family were all meeting there, I would not even have gone given that I had to consume around 30-40 miles of range round trip just to get there and back. As it was I had to drive about 50 minutes out of the way back to the nearest Supercharger just to fill up mid-week. Those 30-60 miles of range added in an hour or two would have made a huge difference.

Another example is the Two Sisters Taproom & Deli in Alta Vista, VA: Two Sisters Tap Room and Deli | Altavista, VA | EV Station

Not quite as big a deal as it used to be now that Lynchburg Supercharger exists, but if the timing works out, I do like to stop there for a meal. I wouldn't have even known about it without its Plugshare entry, and now it is somewhat of a regular stop.

Now, in the OP's case, the store is located right off a busy interstate. In THAT scenario, which is probably well covered with Superchargers, maybe the ROI is not that great. In each of the instances I mentioned, there was no convenient Supercharger access, and in the case of the beach, it was located in a tourist destination. That said, I would look at the specific situation at your friend's location. Are they in a bit of a charging desert? Is there something at their store that could attract customers to dwell for an hour or so? Is this a tourist destination that would be frequented by people on a road trip?

 

[MontyFloyd]

Now, in the OP's case, the store is located right off a busy interstate. In THAT scenario, which is probably well covered with Superchargers, maybe the ROI is not that great. In each of the instances I mentioned, there was no convenient Supercharger access, and in the case of the beach, it was located in a tourist destination. That said, I would look at the specific situation at your friend's location. Are they in a bit of a charging desert? Is there something at their store that could attract customers to dwell for an hour or so? Is this a tourist destination that would be frequented by people on a road trip?

Nearest SC is at least 15 miles either way (12 and 8).
It is store and a doctors office at location, a hotel a short walk away (do not have any charger) but not much else.

There is possibility for expansion (room).

So a real Q on the traffic it could bring.

 

[dafish]

I'm not sure I totally agree. If there were a 'nicer' place to eat that has a destination charger, I might choose to stop there on a trip, rather than Supercharge and fast food it. Clearly, the faster the destination charger, the more tempting. I'd recommend at least a 48 amp one (Tesla or J-1772), not a cheap 30 amp EVSE though. An 80 amp might be put you out front but that's only speculating that the CT will be able to charge at that AC level since there probably aren't enough old Model S or Roadsters on the road that can use the full 80 amps.

Respectfully, (really!), that's not a good plan. By volume the 3/Y twins dwarf demand. They accept a max of 48 amps (11Kw) on level 2. Lovely for a free local thing, but 7 hours for a full recharge? On a trip? Nope! Hotels = sure. Which is how they get used, so...

From an ROI perspective the supercharging owner has a pretty significant expense he needs to defray. Can't do that charging 1-3 cars a day.

Shell has/had (who owns it now isn't clear), a moderate speed DC (now running say 400v) fast charge station that was at 50KW. Perfect for a restaurant, and not an impossible expense to drop in 1 or 2. Plenty of time for a casual lunch/dinner, but not within level 2 charging capability. I hope to see more of this speed/capacity in the future, hopefully better managed than the abortion Shell's support is.

ymmv.

 

[Earl]

By volume the 3/Y twins dwarf demand.

This is definitely true today. 48 amps would be the target. Whether it continues with the CT and other potential electron guzzlers in the future is anyone's guess. As I pointed out there have been faster onboard chargers in the past. There may be in the future.
I also agree that an off board charger around 20 to 50 KW might be a good plan but they're a lot more expensive for the host (hence tougher ROI) than just an EVSE, whether 48 or 80 amp (11 or 20 KW).

 

[dbldwn02]

There was a bank in Colorado Springs which put in 4 Destination chargers. Seemed kinda weird because 'who spends longer than 5 minutes at a bank except employees?' I asked the branch manager about it and he put them in for everyone in the shopping area, including the movie theater. I got myself a Regal Unlimited pass, a new bank account and got to fully charge the car while watching one or two movies every week or two. It was great, until people started abusing the chargers by dragging and running over cables and handles. Chargers started breaking and new manager didn't want to pay to keep up on maintenance. It lasted about 3 years and then they took them out. Sad day.

 

[RTPEV]

Respectfully, (really!), that's not a good plan. By volume the 3/Y twins dwarf demand. They accept a max of 48 amps (11Kw) on level 2. Lovely for a free local thing, but 7 hours for a full recharge? On a trip? Nope! Hotels = sure. Which is how they get used, so...

But who said anything about a full recharge? In many cases, all that is needed is to replenish all or part of a day's use. This can usually be done in 60-90 minutes. When I'm on a trip somewhere, I use Superchargers to get to my destination, but once I'm there, I usually just need some way to replenish my daily use (or supplement whatever I'm getting from a 120V socket. Again, this would be more of a tourist destination kind of thing rather than just a random interstate stop close to nearby Superchargers, which is sounds like the OP's friend's situation is. But there most certainly is a use case for destination chargers in certain situations / business types. In the example I gave earlier, the three sites were: town hall offices (potentially poor location, but there were pickleball courts adjacent, so if you were a pickleball player, excellent site!); an HVAC company (very poor location except it was technically within walking distance of a grocery store); and an ice cream shop (very good location!) Some places that I feel were missing out on an opportunity were the grocery store itself, the local lighthouse (which is a tourist attraction), a brewpub located at the end of the island, and the municipal lot in the shopping/restaurant district of the town.

 

[MP3Mike]

It seems really weird that Tesla pays the destination charger host quarterly, but only takes their cut annually. They should take their portion every quarter...

 

[Earl]

7 hours for a full recharge? On a trip? Nope!

I'll add that,on a trip, I wouldn't expect to fully charge on 48 amps at a restaurant. However, if I feel like a good meal instead of a fast one, I'd rather be adding a few miles to my trip than wasting the stopped time without any charging. Its probably more psychological than anything but it would still impact my decision between Dennys or Applebees if one had even a 48 amp J-1772 and the other didn't.

 

[dafish]

Earl:
I can appreciate your perspective in that particular scenario. I presume you're accepting you'll need to supercharge elsewhere before you any significant next leg of course, but I'm hearing you say "I'd mildly prefer any charge I can get". Hard to disagree, but I'd sure have to really want that stop.

RTPEV:
"Who said anything about a full charge?"

Nobody, but Earl to whom I responded, and I are discussing "Trips", so we're certainly not talking about picking up an extra 15% for the heck of it. The rest is simple math.

To be clear, most of us traveling plan to arrive at the SC site between 10% and 15% SoC and depart at a level such that the next leg can be reached in 60-70% SoC. That's a pretty well known formula for optimum charge time vs distance traveled per charge. If we assume 70% target of a common 75KW available battery we're at 52.5KW of charging being the average "sweet spot". Again, for traveling.

On a 240V./48 amp destination charger, what some seem to be lobbying for, that's 11KW. You may want to charge for 4-5 hours at a meal stop, but I believe you'll be in a significant minority. At the 50KW rate I offer as almost perfect for diners, sports bars, etc? We're talking an hour or so (it will likely slow down towards the end as the BMS tapers charge rate down).

You do you, but as regards trips, traveling, and etc I'm pretty comfortable stating 11KW offers cannot be used to replace a SC visit.

Finally, why did Earl and I discuss trips vis a vis a retail store discussion? Well, look at the thread title:. It's quite literally calling out SuperCharger stations, and the site in question references proximity to the interstate.

What conclusion should the OP be taking from my comment: Expect very few additional customers that are on trips/traveling, for L2 has litlle value to them.

OP:
One man's opinion: Most looking for L2 charging outside of the scope of a hotel stay are looking for a free charge. Are these the folks you're trying to cater too? Universities, library's perhaps civic centers, but for the average retail location? Stay duration is just too short, and most squeezing a penny that hard aren't likely to be a profitable niche. I can't imagine a business model showing a return. Fee based? Local users won't pay for it and travelers will get too little value.

Aside from above, my guess is the only takers for destination chargers are owners that themselves have EV's and want to write off their charging expense. Which is exactly why demand is so low.

YMMV.

 

[brkaus]

I would say you would get very little additional traffic. Collect a few that wanted to charge for free, but even if you charged reasonable (don't loose money on the electricity part) you would only attract people if you and a shop that people might spend extra time at like a gym, movie theater, maybe a bar/restaurant type place where people hung out.

Of course, if your in a charging desert than it would be different, but the supercharges are pretty close.

 

[RTPEV]

RTPEV:
"Who said anything about a full charge?"

Nobody, but Earl to whom I responded, and I are discussing "Trips", so we're certainly not talking about picking up an extra 15% for the heck of it. The rest is simple math.

To be clear, most of us traveling plan to arrive at the SC site between 10% and 15% SoC and depart at a level such that the next leg can be reached in 60-70% SoC. That's a pretty well known formula for optimum charge time vs distance traveled per charge. If we assume 70% target of a common 75KW available battery we're at 52.5KW of charging being the average "sweet spot". Again, for traveling.

Let me ask you this, and maybe we will wind up on the same page...

When you are on a trip, do you just drive in a big circle (or a simple out and back), or do you get somewhere and then stay for a few days, possibly doing some local driving around as you explore sights and do whatever it is you do at the destination?

Yes, I completely agree that while en route, Superchargers (or in general, DC fastchargers) are the way to go, precisely according to your formula (although I'll try to factor in meal stops that may actually take me above 60-70%, but that's a minor point) But when I am in a remote area, away from my home charging station, and I'm not just sitting around, I'm going to need to charge my car somehow. Sometimes I can plug into a 120V outlet like I do at my in laws where we are mostly just sitting around at the lake. Or maybe I am lucky enough to be at a hotel with a J1772. But as I found out on my recent trip, I had neither access to an outlet or J1772 where I was staying, and there was plenty of back and forth driving. As I've said a couple times now, if the subject property is located at a destination where (a) travelers would likely travel to and stay for a few days/a week and (b) there is no convenient access to fast/superchargers nearby, then yes, I would absolutely patronize a suitable business with a charging station (not sure a doctor's office would qualify, but who knows!)

Now I don't think the OP's situation fits that description. It's neither a tourist destination nor is it particularly far from Superchargers. But in the interest of those future readers that may be following this thread with different situations (i.e. beach towns or remote mountain towns or other touristy places, or even remote towns where people might be visiting family where again there is a general lack of charging nearby), I don't believe a blanket statement of L2 charging is not worthwhile is accurate. I do think in those circumstances it very will could draw in customers.

 

[MontyFloyd]

Thanks for opinions.
I am agreeing the expense of adding the power capacity to host 6 DestChar is more than added traffic.
Putting 1 DC using available building capacity looks better and will get on all EV maps except Tesla.

 

[RTPEV]

Thanks for opinions.
I am agreeing the expense of adding the power capacity to host 6 DestChar is more than added traffic.
Putting 1 DC using available building capacity looks better and will get on all EV maps except Tesla.

Well, it will get on Plugshare which is the one that counts. It's true that a whole bunch of Tesla drivers don't seem to know about Plugshare, but I imagine you could say the same thing about any relatively new EV driver. The experienced ones will know where to look.

 

[SigNC]

I can't see it costing 25k on 6 wall connectors, could it?

 

[RTPEV]

I can't see it costing 25k on 6 wall connectors, could it?

I can't either, but I think that may be a conservative estimate based on possibly having to install a dedicated service drop with its own meter for the charging stations, in addition to any trenching and other site prep work (posts, bollards, landscaping) that may be necessary. I would not be surprised to see fairly expensive install costs for commercial jobs.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I can't see it costing 25k on 6 wall connectors, could it?

For such large installs, probably in a parking lot, absolutely yes. Permitting, trenching, conduit, wiring, pedestals, power (60kW at least if 48A!).

 

[MontyFloyd]

I can't either, but I think that may be a conservative estimate based on possibly having to install a dedicated service drop with its own meter for the charging stations, in addition to any trenching and other site prep work (posts, bollards, landscaping) that may be necessary. I would not be surprised to see fairly expensive install costs for commercial jobs.

My thoughts exactly, as also ItsNotAboutTheMoney said.

That is why installing one within the available capacity of existing building wiring to start with.