How Aggressive Should Tesla Be with Variable Pricing to Manage Supercharger Congestion? (i.e. Should Tesla jack rates at chronically congested SCers?)

[Earl]

The primary reason, according to my cynical side, is to have more time for dinner or shopping.

I'm not sure that is necessarily cynical. The thing I hate about fast charging is that it is too slow to be able to really do something without getting Idle or, now, overage fees so you almost have to just waste your time there.
There is a demand for some middle ground between slow (4 - 12 hour) Level 2 and 20-30 min fast charging. At least long enough for a non-rushed sit-down meal. Perhaps beneficiary establishments (restaurants) will start providing these once more people start to understand EV charging.

 

[houstonian]

I'm not sure that is necessarily cynical. The thing I hate about fast charging is that it is too slow to be able to really do something without getting Idle or, now, overage fees so you almost have to just waste your time there.
There is a demand for some middle ground between slow (4 - 12 hour) Level 2 and 20-30 min fast charging. At least long enough for a non-rushed sit-down meal. Perhaps beneficiary establishments (restaurants) will start providing these once more people start to understand EV charging.

Urban SC’ers are a partial answer here.

Need about 1h 40m from sun 5% → 100%; good amount of time for a decent meal/gym visit.

 

[Earl]

Urban SC’ers are a partial answer here.

Need about 1h 40m from sun 5% → 100%; good amount of time for a decent meal/gym visit.

good point. I suspect that an Urban SC, sponsored by the site-owner, and possible restricted or cheap to customers only, without overage or idle fees, could be the solution. That's fast enough to fully charge in about 1.5 hours for nearly anyone from nearly any SoC. Maybe scan a QR code from your restaurant receipt or on the wall inside the gym with your Tesla app and the restaurant/gym picks up overage or idle fees.
Perhaps some restaurant chain such as Applebees or Dennys will be visionary and start such a thing, now that NACS is a clear, single standard.
Does anyone else remember about a decade ago, when Tesla announced that Ruby Tuesday's was going to support Superchargers at their properties? Does anyone know what happened to that deal?

 

[aronth5]

good point. I suspect that an Urban SC, sponsored by the site-owner, and possible restricted or cheap to customers only, without overage or idle fees, could be the solution. That's fast enough to fully charge in about 1.5 hours for nearly anyone from nearly any SoC. Maybe scan a QR code from your restaurant receipt or on the wall inside the gym with your Tesla app and the restaurant/gym picks up overage or idle fees.
Perhaps some restaurant chain such as Applebees or Dennys will be visionary and start such a thing, now that NACS is a clear, single standard.
Does anyone else remember about a decade ago, when Tesla announced that Ruby Tuesday's was going to support Superchargers at their properties? Does anyone know what happened to that deal?

Bankruptcy might have gotten in the way.
A much smaller Ruby Tuesday emerges from bankruptcy

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

good point. I suspect that an Urban SC, sponsored by the site-owner, and possible restricted or cheap to customers only, without overage or idle fees, could be the solution. That's fast enough to fully charge in about 1.5 hours for nearly anyone from nearly any SoC. Maybe scan a QR code from your restaurant receipt or on the wall inside the gym with your Tesla app and the restaurant/gym picks up overage or idle fees.
Perhaps some restaurant chain such as Applebees or Dennys will be visionary and start such a thing, now that NACS is a clear, single standard.
Does anyone else remember about a decade ago, when Tesla announced that Ruby Tuesday's was going to support Superchargers at their properties? Does anyone know what happened to that deal?

Tesla and Ruby Tuesday partner to open a series of new Supercharger Stations

Tesla and Ruby Tuesday, a popular chain of restaurants in the US, announced a partnership to open a series of...

electrek.co

The deal ultimately only added Superchargers in a few places. I think one of them closed. The first one was Miner, MO and is still open. There are also Superchargers at Brewer, ME and Bloomsburg, PA.

Ruby Tuesday was already struggling at the time. Part of the issue with locations like Ruby Tuesday is the limited restaurant hours.

The other issue is that it is/was a mall-focused chain restaurant so many were in malls, and Tesla would just deal with the mall. For example, in Augusta, ME the Supercharger is at the Marketplace Mall, and not far from a former Ruby Tuesday that's now a Mexican restaurant.

 

[GSP]

Regarding the charging behavior that the congestion fee penalizes... under what circumstances would one Supercharge to 100% (or even past 70-80%)? The only one I can think of is road trips where the gap between Superchargers is large enough to require that much charge to get to the next one. But are Superchargers which are spaced far apart (so that drivers need to charge their cars to high states of charge to get to the next one) and prone to being filled up that common?

I supercharge to 100% when taking a meal break on road trips. I usually still have to go back to the supercharger and move my car before my wife is done eating. If lucky, I can finish my meal before moving the car. As long as the car is parked at a charger, and I am not ready to leave yet, it makes sense to charge to 100%.

Charging to 100% enables a short restroom stop afterward to be enough supercharging to reach my final destination, or next meal stop.

Supercharging this way, it is a rare event that the car is not sufficiently charged when I am done with my meal or restroom break. This adds no extra time vs. a gas car road trip.

With the new congestion fee, I will move the car when it gets to 90%. I don't need to use busy superchargers that often, hopefully it will be during my short restroom breaks, so no effect on my trips.

GSP

 

[dipper]

Good point. This is generally not a problem and, even if it was, those few who actually are venturing so far off the beaten path won't worry about spending a few extra $ for a bit more charge. The congestion problem, in my experience, is in urban areas where there are a lot of folks who rely on Superchargers for all of their charging.

That last 10% can take 30 minutes. That is not a few bucks.

 

[Earl]

That last 10% can take 30 minutes. That is not a few bucks.

Yes, but compared with the $100+ extra some trips would cost if I drove an ICE, what is $30 extra for that last top-off before leaving the interstate and heading out to the boonies?

 

[doghousePVD]

Some of us don’t have congestion issues.

I’ve driven 86,000 miles in 25 states and five provinces. I have never had to wait.

No, I have not driven to California.

 

[houstonian]

...or casinos.

Perhaps some restaurant chain such as Applebees or Dennys will be visionary and start such a thing, now that NACS is a clear, single standard.

Bankruptcy might have gotten in the way.
A much smaller Ruby Tuesday emerges from bankruptcy

 

[dbldwn02]

Regarding the charging behavior that the congestion fee penalizes... under what circumstances would one Supercharge to 100% (or even past 70-80%)? The only one I can think of is road trips where the gap between Superchargers is large enough to require that much charge to get to the next one. But are Superchargers which are spaced far apart (so that drivers need to charge their cars to high states of charge to get to the next one) and prone to being filled up that common?

My car only has 230 miles when it's warm out. 190-210 when it's cold. 70-80% of that is only 150 miles. That's not far.

 

[lensovet]

I guess that addresses my main objection I was going to have with this. On the old 60's and 70's there are Supercharger gaps in the West that need charging over 90% just to make it (or to be able to use heat and make it). But those old shorter range cars that are degraded in range some do at least have FUSC, so that would cover them that it would just be an idle fee, which is appropriate. But to use the car as intended to be able to travel but still get charged congestion fees would be wrong and insulting.

FUSC still get congestion fees. But remember that these fees only kick in at congested chargers. I have yet to find one of those outside urban areas or major suburban shopping malls. And the density of SCs is such that those gaps are much smaller than what they were when those cars were originally sold.

I would be extremely surprised to discover that there are any old cars where this change makes it impossible to drive places that were possible to reach five years ago.

 

[lensovet]

My car only has 230 miles when it's warm out. 190-210 when it's cold. 70-80% of that is only 150 miles. That's not far.

And how many of the SCs along your route are actually congested enough to trigger these charges?

 

[lensovet]

The primary reason, according to my cynical side, is to have more time for dinner or shopping.

But other reasons would be out and back trips where you stray from supercharging. Need enough to get somewhere, stay a while, and then get back to a charger.

What are the odds that this one outlying SC is going to be congested 24/7 such that the fees would apply?

 

[lensovet]

In all of the FAQs they don't define "The Supercharger is busy", but they do say it can apply even if there are available stalls, so we know that the criteria isn't "full."

Presumably it’s the same as the old “reset the charge limit to 80%” logic, which triggered when more than half of the stalls were in use.

 

[MP3Mike]

FUSC still get congestion fees.

Only sort of. There are no congestions fees while a FUSC vehicle is charging. They are only charged after charging is completed. (So, they are the same as the 100% full idle fee.)

 

[dbldwn02]

And how many of the SCs along your route are actually congested enough to trigger these charges?

I get idle fee notifications for "busy" superchargers when only half the chargers are taken. I have a feeling I'll get the same notification for this as well.

 

[Rocky_H]

FUSC still get congestion fees. But remember that these fees only kick in at congested chargers. I have yet to find one of those outside urban areas or major suburban shopping malls.

Nope. It's unfortunately a double whammy in some cases where the isolated small town one also is the congested one because it was placed there to connect a really large travel distance. Have you heard of the tiny town of Tremonton, Utah? It has just barely over 10K population. The Supercharger there has been designated as "congested" continuously for literally years. And it's because it is the necessary one everyone has to use to get across the large gap through the mountains northwest into Idaho. Everyone has to use it, and most people have to fill up really full to get up to the next one in either Twin Falls or Burley, Idaho.

These large Western states have much bigger gaps and fewer Superchargers spread farther apart and the Rocky Mountains. Congestion and needing to fill up pretty full is not that unusual a thing.

 

[lensovet]

I’ll be honest I haven’t done much diagonal routes. But in my NYC-SFO/LA trips, most SCs I stopped at I was the only car there. This was in the winter, late summer, and early fall. And tesla has only built more chargers since. I guess time will tell how much of an impact this has, tesla can obviously adjust the rules on this as needed (such as changing the definition of congested to mean 70% or something else).

 

[lensovet]

Everyone has to use it, and most people have to fill up really full to get up to the next one in either Twin Falls or Burley, Idaho.

ABRP says an ancient X 75D could do this in 73% driving at the speed limit. It’s only 111 miles.

Perhaps this will get people to stop thinking they need to overcharge? The only car that needs charging to full at this stop would be even older S/X vehicles with FUSC which apparently won’t be charged these fees anyway. No car made in the last five years needs a full charge at this stop.