Opinion: Tesla should partner with another OEM for NACS or be forced into CCS someday.

CCS has been adopted, however shortsightedly, as the charging standard for North America. As all other manufacturers move forward with CCS ports in random, non-optimal locations over the years, Tesla may some day be forced to have CCS charging ports in their vehicles just as has happened in Europe.

We can hope and insist and be as certain as we'd like that this won't happen, but as legacy automakers and government all team up...there won't be much Tesla can do if a line is drawn in the sand and laws are passed.

I think it would be wise for Tesla to reach out to Ford for example(could be GM, or Dodge, whatever), and suggest a partnership where they standardize the charging port location on their new models to match Tesla's, and to implement Tesla's NACS plug. There would be a benefit to Tesla in terms of revenue generated from SC's, and a *massive* benefit to any OEM that can then claim full access to the largest, best, most reliable charging network in existence.

I don't see there being any HUGE downside to Tesla....no one manufacturer really has enough EV's on the road to move the needle all that much in terms of significantly clogging up SC locations. The upside for a Legacy OEM would be massive, and would most likely eliminate the possibility of the big three teaming up with government and forcing Tesla' hand with regards to CCS.

It's also easy enough to just toss a CCS adapter in with each car sold or make one available at low cost if desired. Tesla always has the option of excluding their busiest locations where extra traffic might cause congestion.

This would also support Tesla's objective of electrifying the world. I don't think this would significantly affect Tesla's sales, especially considering the limited production from Legacies for the foreseeable future. They could even team up with a smaller competitor like Mercedes or BMW.

Thoughts?

"Charging Tesla Model S" by jeffcooper86 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[MP3Mike]

Before Tesla created the magic dock stations to charge any CCS EV without other automakers having to pay for anything.

No the automakers didn't pay for that, because the Federal government paid Tesla to put the MagicDocks in. (And is paying for the remaining of the ~3500 that will be put in by the end of 2024.)

Elon Musk, Tesla's chief executive, promised to provide 7,500 open-access chargers in the U.S. by the end of 2024, according to Biden administration officials. Taxpayer dollars will pay for the conversion of existing Tesla chargers or the construction of new ones to accommodate cars built by Ford, GM, Hyundai, Kia, Volvo, Volkswagen and other electric car makers.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

With Ford now 'allowed' at Super Chargers, and I assume, using NACS, along with 2 other companies, does that mean Tesla is open to US Gov charging money now? Where before they said no?

With that money, I assume it can accelerate building new/more chargers

 

[MP3Mike]

With Ford now 'allowed' at Super Chargers, and I assume, using NACS, along with 2 other companies, does that mean Tesla is open to US Gov charging money now? Where before they said no?

No, it doesn't change anything with regards to the $3B of NEVI funding.

 

[Rocky_H]

With Ford now 'allowed' at Super Chargers, and I assume, using NACS, along with 2 other companies

Could you explain this? The only other company I have heard of that is intending to use the NACS port is Aptera, and I still consider them a hypothetical possibility. What would be the other company you are talking about?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Sorry, so much snippet word speculation. Simply listen to the interview announcement and word’s directly out of Musk and the Ford CEO’s mouth. It’s 12k select chargers. Now and later. No speculation required. I liked the praise and recognition he offered Tesla and even hinted at possible future “software” partnerships which to me sounds like FSD for cash. Smart play for both companies really and the Ford CEO understands some hills are just not worth climbing to reach Tesla.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Starting early next year, Ford EV customers will have access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers[/B] across the U.S. and Canada, in addition to the over 10,000 DC fast-chargers that are already part of the BlueOval Charge Network. This will give Ford EV customers unprecedented access to fast-charging

It could be limited to a fixed subset, but I suspect that as long as Ford has an ongoing "contribution" I think it's going to grow with the network.
The wording just allows flexibility and is positive about the current number of CCS stalls.

If you calculate the open v3 stalls in North America it's over 13,000 but at the time of agreement it would probably have been in the 12,000s.

V2 are generally smaller and more likely to be problem locations, especially given that CCS Fords may have to park funny to access the chargers, so excluding them makes sense whether or not there's a communication issue.

 

[israndy]

No, it doesn't change anything with regards to the $3B of NEVI funding.

Well, the LAW doesn't state CCS vs NACS they simply state that they can't be manufacturer specific, but the regulations created in response to the law do specify CCS and CHAdeMO as they were the only NA DCFCs that were not manufacturer specific when the regulations were created. It seems like once Ford starts shipping cars with NACS ports the regulations can be amended or updated w/o having to go back to congress.

Just from reading here the NEVI funding isn't racing out the door (surprised the GOP didn't try to claw back those funds this week), so it could be that a large percentage of the funding will go out after NACS becomes a second standard. If some other major manufacturer (so not an EV startup) beats Ford to the punch it could be sooner.

Not sure Tesla cares anyway, they are getting paid to bring out Superchargers with Magic Docks, they already spent way more on the Supercharger network than the entire IRA brings to EVs. The benefit I see is simply making NACS a viable standard so that little Vietnamese women everywhere (modeling off a friend) don't have to manhandle CCS to charge their cars. Should be able to plug a charger in with one hand, you need two for CCS.

 

[MP3Mike]

Well, I believe the LAW doesn't state CCS vs NACS they simply state that they can't be manufacturer specific, but the regulations created in response to the law do specify CCS and CHAdeMO as they were the only NA DCFCs that were not manufacturer specific when the regulations were created. It seems like once Ford starts shipping cars with NACS ports they regulations can be amended or updated w/o having to go back to congress.

The regulations specifically mention that it is acceptable to use NEVI funds to install NACS when paired with a CCS1 cable, and that CHAdeMO can only be deployed with the first year of NEVI funds.

Sure, maybe they could change those regulations, but I would think that would have to be after Ford started shipping NACS vehicles sometime in 2025. And by then all but the last year of the NEVI funds will likely have been distributed.

And really there is no reason to, unless somehow CCS1 dies in the US before then, CPOs can just make every stall have both a CCS1 and NACS connector. That way Ford/Tesla owners, assuming they have the appropriate adapter, have a backup cable on every stall, in case one has failed or is damaged/broken/cut/etc.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Could you explain this? The only other company I have heard of that is intending to use the NACS port is Aptera, and I still consider them a hypothetical possibility. What would be the other company you are talking about?

Tesla.

 

[Rocky_H]

Tesla.

Oh, yeah, I see it in your wording now. I was subconsciously already thinking of Tesla as a given, and then you said Ford and 2 other companies.

 

[crackers8199]

CCS sucks. Ok now that, that's out of the way.

it does, but it's nice to have the option. we were in Vegas a few weeks ago, and literally every supercharger within a reasonable drive of both where we were staying and on our route home was full with a wait. I stopped at an EA station for 15 mins and got enough juice to get me to primm, rather than waiting around for who knows how long just to get plugged in at a SC plus the charge time.

 

[israndy]

How long have you had to wait at a Supercharger? Do you think that's the average?

My experience with them is that with usually 12 or more chargers you pop another one off every 2-3 minutes. If you see it's busy in the app and you get there and all of them are full, you usually don't have time to figure out where to start the line before one opens up. 99% of the time I don't even have anyone charging with me, but there are a few times when I'll have to wait, hmmmm... Still can count them all on one hand, 3 were in LA, that town loves their Teslas.

 

[crackers8199]

How long have you had to wait at a Supercharger? Do you think that's the average?

My experience with them is that with usually 12 or more chargers you pop another one off every 2-3 minutes. If you see it's busy in the app and you get there and all of them are full, you usually don't have time to figure out where to start the line before one opens up. 99% of the time I don't even have anyone charging with me, but there are a few times when I'll have to wait, hmmmm... Still can count them all on one hand, 3 were in LA, that town loves their Teslas.

i literally said "it's nice to have the option." as in even if I don't use it that often, it's nice to know I can. I wasn't trying to knock the supercharger network, was just pointing out real world experience in a very large city on a holiday weekend.

 

[threeputts]

I've used my CCS adapter several times, twice to avoid waiting at full SCs and once when an entire SC site was down. It's also allowed us easier travel to areas without close enough SCs like Glacier National Park and Nova Scotia CA. On road trips it's definitely a "nice to have" item.

 

[TesslaBull]

Not going to happen. That ship sailed a long time ago and has already arrived. In addition to their proprietary connector, Tesla clearly designed the Supercharger stations to be tailored to their vehicles only, without future planning for open use. That's evidenced by the station location being on the front vs side, and the short cables. A significant number of CCS stations will be installed over the next few years.

Are you sure?

 

[TesslaBull]

The ship has sailed.

Tesla should have done it a long time ago.

Ya never know.

 

[TesslaBull]

It would seem that NACS is now in FACT the North American Charging Standard. Hopefully GM and Ford will provide a huge influx of revenue to accelerate expansion of the SC network even faster.

 

[ucmndd]

RE “NACS” - the fight is over. Tesla lost, right or wrong. No other manufacturer has any interest in or motivation to adopt a “standard” unilaterally controlled by Tesla.

I will admit this post aged like warm milk. It appears a bunch of you are finding it.

Color me surprised and corrected.

 

[israndy]

The rest of us knew

I read Mary Barra said they were gonna spend $750M on EV Charging Expansion, but today said they will save $400M with this deal. Does that mean they are paying Tesla $350M for this change? You can build a lotta Superchargers for that amount of scratch.

 

[jboy210]

The rest of us knew

I read Mary Barra said they were gonna spend $750M on EV Charging Expansion, but today said they will save $400M with this deal. Does that mean they are paying Tesla $350M for this change? You can build a lotta Superchargers for that amount of scratch.

And no doubt Tesla will continue to charge them directly or indirectly for using their Supercharger management infrastructure year after year. Support, billing, charger maintenance, etc.

 

[ucmndd]

Where did all the people go that were bemoaning the opening up of the supercharger network as the downfall of Tesla?