New Roadster Goodies for 2014

[markwj]

Here's the other thread on this:

Roadster - new options

Dated a little over a year ago, and a few things mentioned:

1. The Model S iPhone app for monitoring car information will be available to Roadster owners sometime this summer. I saw it running on Joost's phone, they're testing now. If you will have more than one Tesla vehicle in your garage, you should be able to monitor all with one app.
2. Brakes. There will be a brake system upgrade available.
3. Stockpiling of parts. Joost has been buying up many of the salvage Roadsters & also has new parts 'enough for 15 years or so'.
4. Extended Warranty to be offered to current owners who didn't purchase.
5. Certified Used Roadster program -this will allow new buyers of Roadsters to also get a warranty for their used Roadster.
6. There should be some news on battery replacement options soon.

1: no (App was released, but no roadster support)
2: no
3: no idea
4: partly (still can't get it here in HK or in some US states?)
5: yes (and this is not really a new option)
6: no

I think the clearest indication on roadster work we have is the firmware updates. In the past three years, the firmware updates we've seen include a new memorial screen, cabin temperature tweaks, and support for new headlights. Tiny tweaks. The last major change was the new drive information screen in 4.2.30/4.2.34 and that was a long time ago.

My best guess is that the above won't happen. Elon mention 'something' (singular), and the only thing I'd bet on would be a battery pack replacement/upgrade - same casing, same sheets, just new cells - either that or the roadsters would die one by one (as the existing cells will be irreplaceable) - it would also be crazy to use the older expensive cell chemistry when the new chemistry is so much cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, I would love these upgrades. But, not if it means a delay in Gen III.

P.S. The above can be filed for claim-chowder. When Elon announces a liquid-cooled pem, with 1/2 size battery module to double the trunk space and reduce 0-60mph to 1.8 seconds - you can all come back to me and tell me you told me so!

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

And liquid cooled motor..

 

[pharma5]

Good to see a thread on this - I refer to my prior comments on the pack update thread and roadster's future thread:
Potential battery pack upgrade for Roadster using Model S cells - Page 4

Basically an all-in-one (or is it one-size-fits-all?) powertrain upgrade, socket, supercharger capability, and Model S-like warranty on the same would bring everyone forward on hardware and the whole Tesla customer service experience. Probably not cheap, but maybe cheaper than we would guess if it simplifies future support and provides the first public demonstration of how Tesla upgrades its cars?

(Hey, when you don't do traditional marketing, this kind of stuff almost pays for itself in new car sales, right? :wink.

 

[smorgasbord]

I think most of the Roadster upgrades died when Joost left Tesla.

 

[PV-EV]

I'd settle for a comprehensive shop manual.

 

[Dan43]

No synergy with the muted Roadster Model R? Perhaps technology ear marked/already developed for that Model is coming across to the existing Roadster first for mule testing etc?

 

[Eberhard]

I think most of the Roadster upgrades died when Joost left Tesla.

When did he left?

 

[strider]

I think most of the Roadster upgrades died when Joost left Tesla.

Huh? His LinkedIn profile still says VP Service at Tesla. Jeroen Joost de Vries | LinkedIn

- - - Updated - - -

It was a glaring omission not to install any HPCs at even one of the Supercharger sites. I think the reason for this is that they were planning all along to have a Tesla 2 plug conversion for the Roadster and some kind of Supercharger capability, whether with a pack upgrade or just some extra hardware.

I think the reason is that they would end up giving free power to non-Tesla's since it would be simple to make a Roadster-J1772 adapter.

And Harris Ranch still has its HPC IIRC.

 

[vfx]

...

And Harris Ranch still has its HPC IIRC.

Installed by a Roadster owner.

 

[dhrivnak]

To me the battery is the big unknown and the larger unknown cost. By rebuilding with the new cells they can reduce the size and weight about 200 lbs. If taken from the top that would give the car better balance and aa lower center of gravity. With the car 8% lighter it would accerate faster and be more nimble. Making you perform better on the track in every way. Because the pack will be a few inches less tall you can have room for your cables and adapters. So a little for everyone. We would know a cost and performance of the most evpensive component. This proves the cars are upgradeable with similar range, better handling and better acceration and storage. If pricrd reasonably then they demo strate the car has a long useful life and one that gets better.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

If Tesla will produce an update for Roadster battery will it be possible for Roadster owners to trade in the old battery for the new battery at low price or if an owner wants to get the battery update has to lose the old battery?

 

[Pantera Dude]

I'd settle for a comprehensive shop manual.

I would also like to have a shop manual.

 

[dhrivnak]

I triple that on a shop manual!!

 

[Pantera Dude]

I triple that on a shop manual!!

I "triple dog dare" them to produce it! :biggrin:

 

[ipdamages]

It's not the width, it's not the diameter, it's contact patch surface. A narrow tire with bigger diameter can have exact same size contact patch than a smaller and wider tire. Air resistance doesn't care about diameter, it cares about tire width so range is bigger with narrower tires.265s on MSP+ are big energy eaters. They are there because ~250 mile range is still not short and 3000Nm/wheel demands some rubber not to slip.Official Model S tires have diameter between 70,3 and 71,9cm (MSP+ rears). One could try 235/50R19 (e.g. Pirreli P Zerro) that have similar diameter to MSP+ rears and are narrower from stock or even 225/55R18 that have similar diameter to stock MS 19" tires.

It is for this reason that I am not sure about a battery and motor upgrade for the Roadster. I suspect that the power put into the road to get 0-60 times approaching 3.0 will require more road surface contact. It is part of the reason that the Concept One is frequently seen burning tires.

 

[WarpedOne]

Roadster battery might get upgraded for a bit longer range and lower weight that would still reduce 0-60 time. Motor wont get official upgrades, I'm willing to bet on this
I can see upgraded battery packs using 3100mAh cells, same count as in 60kWh model S at about 180 pound less weight than current 53kWh battery.
This would improve 0-60 time for about ~5% shifting standard Roadster into Roadster Sport territory and Roadster Sport somewhere around 3,5s 0-60.

Range and efficiency would improve for about ~15% i.e. 244 range miles would become ~280 range miles.
I don't know if there are legal limits on such official 'transformations' (adjusting suspension, retesting ...) so they might just increase the battery capacity using newer cells until it weighs the same as original pack.

No matter which way they go, they could and should offer 2k SC access and Model S charging compatibility.

 

[WarpedOne]

Scrap that, I got my math wrong. Assuming roadster uses 2400mAh and Model S 3100mAh cells that weigh about the same and assuming Tesla offers 60kWh replacment pack that could use SC, the new pack would weigh about 80 pounds less than original pack. Such a pack would have the range of said 280 miles and improve acceleration for about 3% (remove 1 tenth from 0-60 time).

The deciding question is can Tesla produce such packs for less than $12k they took as prepaid battery upgrade program after 7 years. 60kWh upgrade would probably have same configuration as original pack, using 9 less cells in parallel in each brick, 11Sx9Sx60P (5940 cells) instead of old 11Sx9S*69P.
The less costly plan would be to offer same 53kWh packs made of newer 3100mAh cells, reducing weight even further, maybe even to far (150 pounds less weight -> too firm suspension would that needs upgrade => additional costs that offset lower cell cost).
The lowest cost plan would be to offer same 53kWh pack made of old kind 2400mAh cells - this would paint a strange picture what happened to promises of better batteries.

I'd bet on 60kWh packs with optional SC access and Model S charging adapter. This alone brings a bit faster acceleration, better range and optional longer trips.

 

[vfx]

Scrap that, I got my math wrong. Assuming roadster uses 2400mAh and Model S 3100mAh....

Why not more range?

 

[WarpedOne]

More than what?
As I see it, they should try to maximize performance/price i.e. get the most out of 12k upgrade. A bit more range, a bit more acceleration, a bit better efficiency, charging compatibility and additional fee for SC access. This is the longest feature list I can put together that only requires one additional fee for SC access (same as 60kWh MS). Weight would be a bit lower but not so much that would demand suspension changes ($$$) but it would still help in performance. And rear tire wear

Same weight pack would hold ~68kWh and have range over 310 miles but wouldn't offer *any* performance benefits and would be more expensive. Remember they have to deliver these packs in 2015 for $12k that some roadster owners already paid few years ago.

 

[mgemmell]

I "triple dog dare" them to produce it! :biggrin:

IMHO there's too much IP in the Roadster (as well as dangerous voltages) to encourage people to get their hands dirty for now. Give it 5 years though and I bet we'll have one. I get occasional pages from the service team in the UK as it is cheaper to have me fix the car than to fly someone down. I prefer it that way too frankly... I can now adjust to perfection the windows and the trunk locks plus replace the 12V battery and cooling fans

Buddies in Tesla CA have told me to expect liquid cooling for the PEM and motor, and a sub-3 second 0-60 time, but at a price of $30k. Is that old news? I don't know.

+1 on the battery upgrades. The car is awesome enough and with a reasonably priced new battery with greater range it would feel like new. The same charging electronics as the S would by fantastic (supercharging and 3-phase charging in the EU... oh yeah!).