Many owners with UMC problems in Norway , specially during cold weather

[Aurvandil]

We are not new to EVs in Norway. We have quite extensive experience with EVs for a long time. Other brands of EVs don't have these problems with charging. Model S seems to be very fussy about what kind of electricity it gets fed with. And it's not like it was a total surprise for Tesla that large parts of the Norwegian electricity grid is unique and grounding is challenging.

One thing I noticed immediately when I got the car, long before winter started, was that charging won't always start, and you can't trust the charging port LEDs. That's a bug in my opinion. Even though the LEDs glow green, the screen may say "Charging will start momentarily" and the amps will not count up. I always check the screen to see if the car is actually charging. If it doesn't I unplug the UMC again and again until it starts to charge. Not very satisfactory to have to do this on a premium car.

When using the UMC, after charging is finished the LEDs sometimes are red. For many Norwegians, the LEDs are always red after charging. When the LEDs are red, it seems the 12V battery is being drained. This means Norwegians who use the UMC have to make sure to unplug quickly after the car is finished charging, to avoid 12V problems.
[...]

Describes my own experience as well. Only difference is that I got my winter wheels in late October, but it now seems that I may have been lucky. On the other hand, I ordered the three-phase adapter with the car, it was not there when the car was delivered late August, got a mail sometime in September about the adapters having arrived, drove in to the dealership, just to find out that they hadn't. Last word seems to be "sometime in the first quarter". Yeah, right. I even had a 400V three-phase transformer installed in my garage, only collecting dust so far.

Anyways, a magnificent car, and being the guinea pig for the first Arctic winter was always a calculated risk, but it is slightly annoying to see Tesla advertise their "great winter performance" with reference to the Norwegian market. They have many, many annoyed customers here.

 

[jkirkebo]

You're right. I have a Volt and a Model S, both with Nokians. And the Volt is handling better in the snow and has better traction.

Hmm, I have a Leaf and a Model S with Nokians and to me the Tesla seems to be the car with the best winter handling and traction.

 

[cinergi]

Interesting that 1-phase UMC's in the cold weather don't appear to have these issues. I've had no problems in similar temperatures.
The 12v battery dying is also strange (unless you have the old battery) -- and indeed perhaps related to failed charging. Assuming the charge port lights shut off when the car is locked, do they come on when it fails or do you have to unlock the car (or approach it) first?
I agree that the charge port door can be an issue. And the car has its warts with respect to the cold weather (which makes me wonder whether someone used it like a normal person would in the cold weather -- not just take it out in very cold weather for some videos and then garage it somewhere). I really wish Elon's cross-country (US) trip would be during the winter so he could see some of this stuff first-hand.

Sounds like Tesla is going through some first-time pain there that's more related to 3-phase charging and supply issues.

I assume there's no 3-phase HPWC? Is one coming?

 

[VolkerP]

Sounds like Tesla is going through some first-time pain there that's more related to 3-phase charging and supply issues.

I assume there's no 3-phase HPWC? Is one coming?

In the EU design studio, the HPWC was "TBD". Now it is removed altogether. Tesla recommends the services of The Mobility House for home owners to install something that looks like a KEBA KeContact P20 - a 22kW 3 phase AC wallbox.

 

[fredag]

Interesting that 1-phase UMC's in the cold weather don't appear to have these issues. I've had no problems in similar temperatures.
The 12v battery dying is also strange (unless you have the old battery) -- and indeed perhaps related to failed charging. Assuming the charge port lights shut off when the car is locked, do they come on when it fails or do you have to unlock the car (or approach it) first?
I agree that the charge port door can be an issue. And the car has its warts with respect to the cold weather (which makes me wonder whether someone used it like a normal person would in the cold weather -- not just take it out in very cold weather for some videos and then garage it somewhere). I really wish Elon's cross-country (US) trip would be during the winter so he could see some of this stuff first-hand.

Sounds like Tesla is going through some first-time pain there that's more related to 3-phase charging and supply issues.

I assume there's no 3-phase HPWC? Is one coming?

The Norwegian UMC is 3-phase capable, but practically no-one has received any other adapters than for single phase 13A 3kW charging at a schuko socket. All reports of charging problems are on single phase sockets.

The charge port door freezing stuck is a wart, nothing more, but relates to claims of superior cold weather performance.

Tesla doesn't sell an HPWC in Europe. Unlike in the US, Tesla uses a standard charging port in Europe: mode3 type2. So there's not really a need for an HPWC in Europe, there are lots of third party mode3 type2 charging stations to be bought for around 900 USD and up. Given the reputation of the Tesla's UMC here, I'm not sure I'd recommend buying an HPWC from Tesla.

Norwegians who use third party mode3 type2 charging stations, either at single phase or three phase, have no charging problems.

In my opinion, Tesla should have recommended its customers to install mode3 type2 charging stations in their garages before delivery of the car.

 

[Mario Kadastik]

The Norwegian UMC is 3-phase capable, but practically no-one has received any other adapters than for single phase 13A 3kW charging at a schuko socket. All reports of charging problems are on single phase sockets.

The charge port door freezing stuck is a wart, nothing more, but relates to claims of superior cold weather performance.

Tesla doesn't sell an HPWC in Europe. Unlike in the US, Tesla uses a standard charging port in Europe: mode3 type2. So there's not really a need for an HPWC in Europe, there are lots of third party mode3 type2 charging stations to be bought for around 900 USD and up. Given the reputation of the Tesla's UMC here, I'm not sure I'd recommend buying an HPWC from Tesla.

Norwegians who use third party mode3 type2 charging stations, either at single phase or three phase, have no charging problems.

In my opinion, Tesla should have recommended its customers to install mode3 type2 charging stations in their garages before delivery of the car.

Hmm, I think Tesla does recommend wallboxes (UMC is a Mobile charger, not what you do permanently at home), you just have to get a third party one because they don't feel the need to create one as there are so many others. And it's a bit odd with that three phase red plugs as I got my car on 3rd of December and then as I ordered extra set of TPMS from service I asked if they had the red plug and they did send it so I got it on 22nd of December

 

[JRP3]

The charge port door freezing stuck is a wart, nothing more, but relates to claims of superior cold weather performance.

Has anyone tried rubbing the mating surfaces with silicone or teflon spray or grease?

 

[Rainbow]

There's been a lot of shills claiming that Tesla is great and cold weather and snow.

Yet there's been a lot of disgruntled Tesla owners that complain about range loss in cold weather, massive power consumption in cold weather, poor performance and poor traction in snow.

The complaints from Norway suggest that Tesla did not adequately research and test Tesla charger's for compatibility with Norway's electrical grid. Sounds like Tesla service and support has fell short.

Norwegian winter parks popular Tesla electric cars

 

[fredag]

Hmm, I think Tesla does recommend wallboxes (UMC is a Mobile charger, not what you do permanently at home), you just have to get a third party one because they don't feel the need to create one as there are so many others. And it's a bit odd with that three phase red plugs as I got my car on 3rd of December and then as I ordered extra set of TPMS from service I asked if they had the red plug and they did send it so I got it on 22nd of December

In my experience, Tesla representatives in Norway recommended setting up blue 32A single phase sockets, or red 16A three-phase sockets.

So in preparation for delivery of our cars, we installed blue and red sockets in our garages.

But when delivery time arrived in September, Tesla couldn't deliver UMC-adapters to the blue and red sockets. No advance warning of due items before delivery. And Tesla still haven't been able to deliver these adapters. We're stuck at 3kW charging for the UMC, and our blue and red sockets are idle have never been used. Tesla now estimates the adapters will arrive in the first half of 2014.

Patience is running low among Norwegian Tesla customers now, and in my opinion Tesla deserves a new round of bad publicity regarding slow charging due to the UMC-adapters which they haven't delivered. It's sad, but it seems like the only way to get things fixed with Tesla Norway is when journalists starts to ask questions.

 

[qwk]

Has anyone tried rubbing the mating surfaces with silicone or teflon spray or grease?

The only time I've had trouble was when water/snow got in when I was charging and then the temps dropped, which resulted in the door slightly freezing. All it takes is a tap to open it.

 

[cinergi]

The Norwegian UMC is 3-phase capable, but practically no-one has received any other adapters than for single phase 13A 3kW charging at a schuko socket. All reports of charging problems are on single phase sockets.

I meant to call out that the EU UMC hardware is different, even if we're both only charging on 1 phase. The on-board charging hardware is also likely different, as is the software -- but it's not clear to me which one's to blame.

 

[twinklejet]

Norwegian winter parks popular Tesla electric cars

Link: Norwegian winter parks popular Tesla electric cars

Electric cars from US-based Tesla Motors have become wildly popular in Norway, but their owners have been running into recharging problems since winter finally set in a few weeks ago. One Tesla owner found himself stranded on Christmas Eve with a dead battery, 150 kilometers from the nearest recharging station.

Norwegian motorists have embraced electric cars in general, and Tesla in particular, not least because the climate-friendly cars can be used in the lanes otherwise reserved for the bus and taxis, and they get a variety of other advantages in a country where automobiles are usually hit with punitive taxes to discourage car use. The trendy Tesla Model S luxury sedan can nonetheless cost up to NOK 800,000 (USD 130,000) in Norway, with all extras, and has become a status symbol of sorts. The cars are seen as very cool, while also giving off an image of climate consciousness.

Some, however, have gone from cool to ice cold since temperatures plummeted in southern Norway, where Tesla has its biggest Norwegian customer base. Newspaper Dagens Næringsliv (DN) reported over the weekend that increasing numbers of Tesla owners are complaining about problems recharging the cars in Norway, especially when temperatures drop well below the freezing point.

Tesla has confirmed the problems with recharging the cars when thermometers fall under zero, and online debate pages have been full of owners’ problems with the cars’ recharging cables. “We’re trying hard to resolve this,” Peter Bardenfleth-Hansen, Tesla’s sales chief for the Nordic and Benelux countries and the UK, told DN. “We’re sorry, and don’t like how Norwegian customers are suffering.

The problem is tied to the recharging cables that come with the Model S cars, because they don’t hold the charge in cold weather. DN reported that Tesla engineers have contacted affected customers, and were conducting tests in an effort to ensure more stable recharging.

On Monday, Tesla spokesman Esben Pedersen told DN the cars’ recharging system was “too sensitive” for the Norwegian electricity network. “We’re not saying there’s anything wrong with the Nowegian network,” Pedersen said, but added it’s a “challenge” because it’s “different” than the networks in other countries. Tesla technicians, according to DN, were sending out updated programs to customers for use when recharging.

 

[Doug_G]

Weird. I'm driving my Model S through it's second winter. It's currently -25C. I've had zero problems with charging in the cold.

 

[widodh]

This has been discussed here: Many owners with UMC problems in Norway , specially during cold weather

I recommend we continue there.

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Had a ranger here today and he had even a spare red plug for me to check if I have the latest revision as some initial ones had voltage fluctuations. He claims most shoukd have the new one and so did I. So obviously they do have them somewhat. Also I got €300 credit in service/store for then not shipping my adapter initially.

He also claimed that the Norwegian power grid is really weird and as Tesla is the only car that deeply validates the power that it gets, then they have issues in Norway where the very dynamic grid and various odd grounding situations cause trouble and it may need a special UMC (they built one for their own training session because the grid was supplying 245V). This doesn't affect the rest of EU and isn't necessarily cold related.

 

[Hybris]

in Norway its not the red three phase adapter. its the blue one...

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Mario did you have to pay for the ranger visit? I got asked by delivery if i want the optional service pack but to me that seems very overpriced considering the low or no service need of the car. Tesla service cost like a BMW service with standard checks including oil service. to me this pricing is a mystery... well BMW is free service for three years and 80000 km but after that the cost is similar tomwhat tesla charge per 20000 km.. meaning i pay more for service of the model s than a new BMW the first 100000 kms... interesting...

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Mario did you have to pay for the ranger visit? I got asked by delivery if i want the optional service pack but to me that seems very overpriced considering the low or no service need of the car. Tesla service cost like a BMW service with standard checks including oil service. to me this pricing is a mystery... well BMW is free service for three years and 80000 km but after that the cost is similar tomwhat tesla charge per 20000 km.. meaning i pay more for service of the model s than a new BMW the first 100000 kms... interesting...

Yes, you always have to pay for ranger service. However for such a long distance housecall we came to an agreement with Tesla about the cost which ended up being just the rangers plane ticket + one night stay at a hotel and I arranged for a working environment (booked for a day a car lift and access to tools at a friendly car shop). If there had been extra repairs that required more spare parts shipped or the ranger staying longer, then all of the rebookings and extra costs would have been borne by Tesla. So overall even though I'll have to pay for a warranty repair it'll still end up just in hundreds of euros, but I got service in a country that doesn't have a service center and feel now far more confident about possible future repairs/service calls including recommending Model S to others (so far I had talked about a speculative Tesla promise of Rangers in Estonia, now I have hard facts that they indeed come).

Overall I have to say I am extremely pleased. I discovered the camera issue last Tuesday and called roadside assistance. They tried all they could remotely including having me fully power off the car and escalated it to engineering who confirmed it to be a hardware issue. An hour later I got a call from Tesla service manager in Copenhagen who informed me that we'll need a ranger visit or me coming in and offered that as there was a ranger visit going to happen the next day in Riga, Latvia I could join in if I could get myself there. Sadly finding out about it so late it wasn't possible so we organized one separately. They were very proactive and pleasant and provided me with far more flexibility and options than I have ever had from ANY car dealer here.

But with regard to the service plans. Nah, I'd not take one They are more relevant for people in the south who need the tire rotation etc, we in the North have to anyway do that twice a year when swapping between winter and summer tires and usually do it at a third party location (in fact that's the place I used today for the ranger visit). So can't fully imagine what the package really brings to the table. I'd much rather just take the same amount per visit as the ~ ranger cost and assume I could do a ranger visit a year without exceeding the service pre-payment. So yeah, not available for me as I'm outside of core market, but even if it was available I'd probably not take it.

 

[Trnsl8r]

Had a ranger here today and he had even a spare red plug for me to check if I have the latest revision as some initial ones had voltage fluctuations. He claims most shoukd have the new one and so did I. So obviously they do have them somewhat. Also I got €300 credit in service/store for then not shipping my adapter initially.

He also claimed that the Norwegian power grid is really weird and as Tesla is the only car that deeply validates the power that it gets, then they have issues in Norway where the very dynamic grid and various odd grounding situations cause trouble and it may need a special UMC (they built one for their own training session because the grid was supplying 245V). This doesn't affect the rest of EU and isn't necessarily cold related.

So Model S owners in other European countries shouldn't plan on road tripping in Norway?

 

[Mario Kadastik]

So Model S owners in other European countries shouldn't plan on road tripping in Norway?

You can if you charge at the superchargers But charging at normal outlets might be problematic indeed. I guess Tesla will not come out with a separate UMC, but instead just extend the usable range of voltages. As I understood > 240V and < 208V are problematic regions. And not sure how many people have issues with the red plug, but have issues with the standard schuko. As the red one is standardised CEE plug it might be properly grounded and those issues are not relevant then. The schuko plug is another thing as there are various ways that can be done and as I've understood is also the region where most people have issues.

I'm planning to roadtrip when I get my CHAdeMO adapter. Then using superchargers, CHAdeMO, Type-II (i.e. IKEA) and hotel 3x16A charging I should be fine for any road trip there using just standardized plugs and no Norway odd schukos

 

[fredag]

in Norway its not the red three phase adapter. its the blue one...

The problems in Norway seems to have been almost exclusively with the schuko adapter. Naturally, since Tesla hasn't delivered the red and blue adapters to us yet.

Most Norwegians have ordered both the red and blue adapter, since we have two different three phase systems. Older installations (approx 75%) use 230V IT three-phase, with no ground from the utility. Newer installations use 400V TN three-phase, same as in the rest of Europe. When on the road, we'll need to connect to all kinds of sockets.

Because of this, Norwegians have a slightly different UMC from the one delivered to the rest of Europe, but the cars are supposed to be the same. The Norwegian UMC is supposed to handle both IT and TN and our weird grounding. European UMCs may or may not work reliably in Norway.

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So Model S owners in other European countries shouldn't plan on road tripping in Norway?

Charging at superchargers, type2 charging stations and red sockets in Norway should be exactly the same as in the rest of Europe.

Charging at schuko and blue single phase sockets in Norway can be unreliable with the European UMC, according to Tesla. Ask your local service centre for advice.