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Ludicrous Upgrade Scheduling?
- Thread starter tstafford
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Just another data point. Using a vbox with an SOC of 68% (mined from previous runs) which should be the same as the P85DL in the video that is showing 174 rated miles (68.7%).
An acceleration run from 0 to 90 MPH passing through the same two speed ranges:
50-80 = 3.47 seconds
60-85 = 3.33 seconds
Take this this with a grain of salt. It's different in the following ways:
1) It doesn't use the displayed speed which can be off by a few MPH.
2) This is passing through these speed ranges, not starting at them. The run started at 0 MPH.
3) Because of 2, if the P85D is burst limited, the results would slower than they would be if you say you floored it at 58 MPH and then did it again flooring at at 78 MPH.
4) Because of 2, the the results might be faster because it doesn't take into account the 200 ms it takes to go from the 15 to 20 KW to full output right when you floor it.
Despite that, I think this is likely to confirm that the P85D without Ludicrous matches the times shown in the video and that if the P85D with Ludicrous can really match the time shown in the video that it would be very exciting indeed.
I don't think a P85D even at full charge would manage the times shown in the video.
An acceleration run from 0 to 90 MPH passing through the same two speed ranges:
50-80 = 3.47 seconds
60-85 = 3.33 seconds
Take this this with a grain of salt. It's different in the following ways:
1) It doesn't use the displayed speed which can be off by a few MPH.
2) This is passing through these speed ranges, not starting at them. The run started at 0 MPH.
3) Because of 2, if the P85D is burst limited, the results would slower than they would be if you say you floored it at 58 MPH and then did it again flooring at at 78 MPH.
4) Because of 2, the the results might be faster because it doesn't take into account the 200 ms it takes to go from the 15 to 20 KW to full output right when you floor it.
Despite that, I think this is likely to confirm that the P85D without Ludicrous matches the times shown in the video and that if the P85D with Ludicrous can really match the time shown in the video that it would be very exciting indeed.
I don't think a P85D even at full charge would manage the times shown in the video.
I dunno - I'm seeing like 40 entries for the first 1/10 of a mile in my first log (in which I went 0-29mph). PM me an email address and I'll send you one of the run longs. Take a look and then tell me what kind of run you would like to see (e.g., 0-60, freeway driving, whatever). Just remember that I am not a technical guy. So give me simple instructions and I'll do my best to capture the data.ok fiks....... you beat me to it. I'm right in the middle of discussions (negotiations) with Tesla on that subjectDid you simply throw money at the problem?
Just read your sig.... Did you get an X P90DL founders delivered????
Yo Mama,
If you have an excel power consumption data inclusive of speed that will allow me to do some very simple integration and get energy consumed for certain portions of a run. Looking at launches through a given speed versus roll ons through that same speed will tell us if Tesla is doing any kind of surge management. The VBox data will show differing times for, say, a 60-80 span when done from a dead stop and from a 50 mph roll on if Tesla is doing surge energy management. However, it would be a lot easier to see with power consumption data directly from the car provided the resolution/sample rate is good enough. How many samples a second (or seconds per sample) do you get with the Tesla data tool?
George Parrott
Member
How long did the upgrade take at the factory? Was it a "one day or X hours" job? I am also on the upgrade list and would take my car to Fremont for that upgrade (I originally scheduled for Rocklin), but would not want to have to also get an overnight accommodation.....
OK. You guys convinced me. I'm on the wait list at Burlingame, but never put down the deposit online. I went to the online shop, and now put down the deposit, and selected Burlingame, but also wrote in the notes, that I'm open to the Fremont Factory installation if it takes too long for other centers to do the upgrade. Let's see!
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I believe yo mama took his car in last Wednesday, and was supposed to get it back on Friday, but that was delayed, and he wound up getting it on Saturday.
I believe Thimel took his car in on Monday, and we have not heard yet that he has it back.
I think it is an absolute minimum one night requirement, and likely two--possibly more, especially at first, as they are just getting going with these.
We got back last night in Merced at midnight. Drove straight from the Grand Canyon. The Fresno supercharger can't come fast enough. We would have saved an hour. Anyways, still on vacation and still bound by my promise to my wife to stay off the forums until next week but I couldn't help myself.
Charged up to 93% while max battery mode was engaged. Turns out you can turn this on while charging and away from the car. It took an hour to get to "ready". Runs were done starting at 91%. The very last had just hit 89%.
Did multiple acceleration runs starting at different speeds using the vbox and also ran power tools for each run to see what the battery was doing.
Some of these values are identical. They aren't typos. The values starting from 0 MPH and 46 MPH are identical to the hundredth. Same with both runs starting at 47 MPH. Crazy consistent. There doesn't seem to be any penalty for starting at 0 vs starting just before the speed range tested.
Max power seen from the streaming API (sampled 4 times per second) was 415KW at 91%. Previous best without max battery was 414KW. Not statistically interesting.
The difference in power between a non Ludicrous P85D at 90% vs 68% is 50KW or about 67 horsepower at the battery. What is this at the shaft? 60 hp? Nobody knows for sure but it's certainly a few % less than at the battery.
Given the power output from the battery is so flat, it seems hard to believe that only 425KW has been seen. The P85DL at 68% is performing like a P85D at 90%.
.....unless it turns out that the P85DL can *ALSO* pump at 425KW even at 68%.
Could it be that with the Ludicrous upgrade that at full charge there isn't much more power but given the 15% higher current capacity of the new fuse that as voltage drops, they're upping the current to keep the power at the same level? Perhaps there's something about the inverters in the DUs that prevent more than 425KW but as the SOC drops, the fuse can now allow more current than before so that something above 410KW can still be produced.
Can someone run Powertools on a P85DL at 70% and record the power level? Is it the same as at 90%?
Charged up to 93% while max battery mode was engaged. Turns out you can turn this on while charging and away from the car. It took an hour to get to "ready". Runs were done starting at 91%. The very last had just hit 89%.
Did multiple acceleration runs starting at different speeds using the vbox and also ran power tools for each run to see what the battery was doing.
| Starting MPH | 50-80 MPH | 60-85MPH |
| 0 | 3.00 | 2.87 |
| 46 | 3.00 | 2.87 |
| 47 | 2.96 | 2.81 |
| 47 | 2.96 | 2.81 |
| 57 | - | 2.85 |
| 57 | - | 2.81 |
Max power seen from the streaming API (sampled 4 times per second) was 415KW at 91%. Previous best without max battery was 414KW. Not statistically interesting.
The difference in power between a non Ludicrous P85D at 90% vs 68% is 50KW or about 67 horsepower at the battery. What is this at the shaft? 60 hp? Nobody knows for sure but it's certainly a few % less than at the battery.
Given the power output from the battery is so flat, it seems hard to believe that only 425KW has been seen. The P85DL at 68% is performing like a P85D at 90%.
.....unless it turns out that the P85DL can *ALSO* pump at 425KW even at 68%.
Could it be that with the Ludicrous upgrade that at full charge there isn't much more power but given the 15% higher current capacity of the new fuse that as voltage drops, they're upping the current to keep the power at the same level? Perhaps there's something about the inverters in the DUs that prevent more than 425KW but as the SOC drops, the fuse can now allow more current than before so that something above 410KW can still be produced.
Can someone run Powertools on a P85DL at 70% and record the power level? Is it the same as at 90%?
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I dropped it off "the night before" (Tuesday the 17th) so they could drain the battery. The actual upgrade took from Wednesday the 18th until pick up on Saturday the 21st. The upgrade it self was complete on Friday, from what I understand. Saturday was all about the techs logging in time and road testing.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Does this mean that wheels, tires, etc. being equal, (which I know they weren't) if Marc's car had been charged to 90% in the video yo Mama and Marc made, the times would have been about the same?
Yeah, about that...
suboptimal performance today. It was cold out (46 degrees is cold for me) and the roads were slick from rain. I did my very short commute today and the car had not warmed up at all. "Max power" was not enabled. 45% SoC. The highest power I achieved was 346 Kw, which seemed low. The car was still very quick but didn't enter "beast mode" like it did with MarcG and on a few other runs. However, recall that the techs did warn me that Ludicrous performed best once the battery had warmed up. I suspect this may be some evidence of what they were talking about.
Thanks, yo mama and MarcG
Sorka, Thanks for putting SOC differences in perspective.
"ready" also has to be function of ambient start point. I've noticed I can drive 40 minutes, with Max "preparing" and never see a ready indicator, if starting with a ~45 degree car.
IMO, peak kw's are nice to have, but the times as a function of charge state will say more to the rest of us. Hopefully P85D loses charge at the same rate as P85D, and simply starts at a higher (kw) point.
Sorka, Thanks for putting SOC differences in perspective.
"ready" also has to be function of ambient start point. I've noticed I can drive 40 minutes, with Max "preparing" and never see a ready indicator, if starting with a ~45 degree car.
IMO, peak kw's are nice to have, but the times as a function of charge state will say more to the rest of us. Hopefully P85D loses charge at the same rate as P85D, and simply starts at a higher (kw) point.
I'm supposed to get mine back tonight after dropping it off Monday morning. Wouldn't surprise me if it is delayed until Friday since I'm also doing the LTE upgrade.
Just for reference, maximum power readings for the following SOCs in KW (multiply by 1.341 for horsepower at the battery).
71% = 381
67% = 376
61% = 366
60% = 367 (was probably a little warmer than the one at 61%).
81% = 396
90% = 414
88% = 407
87% = 406
86% = 407 (again probably warmer than at 87%)
34% = 344 (the P85DL must have had a really cold battery to only put out 346 at 45%!)
33% = 353 (Warmer than at 34%)
77% = 389 (warm)
84% = 390 (cold)
82% = 392
86% = 402
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sorka;1253319 The difference in power between a non Ludicrous P85D at 90% vs 68% is 50KW or about 67 horsepower at the battery. What is this at the shaft? 60 hp? Nobody knows for sure but it's certainly a few % less than at the battery. [/QUOTE said:
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Okay, I acknowledge that I'm just a dumb lawyer who may be slow on the uptake - but is there a fairly strong correlation between SoC and peak power output?
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You should join some of us for beers in early December. I'm sure everyone would love to ogle your new and improved MS. PM me or or MarcG if you're interested.
The voltage drops as the state of charge drops. Under load, it drops based on the internal resistance the battery which will decrease at higher battery temperatures.
So yes, as the SOC drops, the power output drops but it still varies depending on how warm the battery is.
Right, if it turns out the fuse is only allowing higher current as the SOC lowers, then then both cars would have been fairly close at 90% with the P85DL slightly edging out the non L P85D by .1 seconds instead of .5 seconds. i.e. if the inverter is a bottleneck to higher power, then uncorking the fuse would allow the same higher power at lower SOCs.
However, yo mama has already mentioned the output was only 344KW at 45% which even if the battery was cold seems really low. So honestly I don't know.
I'd really like to see if the P85DL improves a lot from 70% to 90% like the P85D does.
I realize it's only anecdotal, but the most kick ass performance *felt* like it came shortly after I picked up the car when: (1) the Tesla techs had done a bunch of test runs and warmed up the battery; and (2) the SoC was in between 90% and 100%. Then again, my judgement may have been impaired by delirious excitement.
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