I agree. I have said that the Model S P100D is maybe a $50K car. Tesla needed to raise capital, another reason why parts are still very expensive. Example - instead of changing 3 fuses in a DC to DC converter for $20 they charge you $2500 to install a new one.
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Losing interest in the Tesla Brand
- Thread starter P100DHG.
- Start date
I agree. I have said that the Model S P100D is maybe a $50K car. Tesla needed to raise capital, another reason why parts are still very expensive. Example - instead of changing 3 fuses in a DC to DC converter for $20 they charge you $2500 to install a new one.
You mean 50k of cost? Because you won't find a car with even close to that performance under 100k
MTOman
Member
The Model S is supposed to be Tesla's flagship car but sadly at the moment, it isn't.
Of all the "changes" they've made to the Model S the one I am disappointed most is the removal of the sunroof
I had NO idea they had made so many changes! I haven't visited the order page once since ordering my X in Dec '16 or my S prior, I just visited it when you mentioned about the sunroof and was shocked to see how sparse the options are! Where are the ventilated seats? Where is the sunroof (on the S)? Where is the active spoiler (on the X)? Where are other interior materials? I also don't see any mention of air suspension, did they remove that or is it standard?
It was really shocking to see how much customization they've removed but I'd have to agree the sunroof was the biggest shock, I had one on my S and looooved it... can't imagine getting another S without one
I had NO idea they had made so many changes! I haven't visited the order page once since ordering my X in Dec '16 or my S prior, I just visited it when you mentioned about the sunroof and was shocked to see how sparse the options are! Where are the ventilated seats? Where is the sunroof (on the S)? Where is the active spoiler (on the X)? Where are other interior materials? I also don't see any mention of air suspension, did they remove that or is it standard?
It was really shocking to see how much customization they've removed but I'd have to agree the sunroof was the biggest shock, I had one on my S and looooved it... can't imagine getting another S without one
I'm so disappointed with them removing the sunroof option from the Model S that I stopped my regular pastime of configuring the next Model S I would like to buy because honestly such a car no longer exists.
- I can't buy a Model S with a sunroof any more.
- I can't buy a Model S in silver any more (but at least pearl white is available as a light exterior color).
- I can't buy a performance Model S with wood trim any more. BUT Tesla allows you configure any non-performance Model S with wood trim, but that choice is not allowed for any customer who buys Tesla's most expensive car?
- I can't buy a performance Model S with a cream interior. BUT Tesla allows you configure any non-performance Model S with a cream interior, but that choice is not allowed for any customer who buys Tesla's most expensive car?
The fact that they are allowing wood trim and cream interior options for Model S Standard Range and Long Range versions but forbid anyone buying a Performance version car shows how nuts the current mindset is with options. I wish they would charge whatever they need but allow customers to select a sunroof and interior/exterior trim and colors they like. is that too much to ask?
whitex
Well-Known Member
Imagine the interweb hype if the 10,000 people simply got a new car, with some extra option for the trouble. Now that would sell cars!
If it really is in a 100 cars, you can make up for it by raising the prices by less than 1% (since the 10,000 cars could be fixed and sold as refurbished). I think the problem is that the problems are not 1 in 100 as you suggest. I bought 4 Teslas to date and every one of them required some fixing. Nothing was majorly wrong, the worst was a 2017 Model S with side mirror which wouldn't unfold and sometimes would partially fold while driving, which was really annoying and potentially unsafe, but you could hard lock the mirrors to stay unfolded (it took 3 mirror assemblies to fix). I doubt I was this unlucky to hit 1% chance 4 times in a row (.001% of that happening to anyone).
Then there is the stuff they break with updates, like my browser which hasn't worked in months. That's not 1 in a 100, that's majority of cars if not all of them.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I am definitely waiting to see it. With the price reductions I would normally be tempted to upgrade my 2015 Model S to a newer Model S, but the new ones today have nothing I want (and don't have things I do want, like plus suspension). I'm hoping Taycan will fill that void. Fingers crossed for some physical controls and finished, non-beta software.
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katooom
Member
I visited a Tesla showroom in Atlanta a few weeks ago (before the announcement). Most disappointing is the lack of color choice - and the price for those few colors! I used to think Porsche was bad with their price for just about any paint option - but at least you had choices. 5 color choices on a $100K car? Worst of all, none of the colors were really nice at all - rather flat, especially disappointed in the red multi-coat. For a $2500 option it was not really that premium - no depth at all.
Worst of all, the only color that really appealed to me and wife both - the silver (they had older silver M3 on lot) is no longer offered.
Still like the cars, but configurability at this price level is really lacking.
Worst of all, the only color that really appealed to me and wife both - the silver (they had older silver M3 on lot) is no longer offered.
Still like the cars, but configurability at this price level is really lacking.
jelloslug
Active Member
The current S (and to some extent, the X also) is at they end of it's model cycle. It's commonplace for manufacturers to simplify an outgoing model when it's about to be replaced.
Compared to the original Model S introduced almost 7 years ago, the current Model S has a lot of new functionality. The exterior design has had some small changes. The biggest area where changes are likely to happen is the interior - especially if/when Tesla is close to getting FSD authorized for use (somewhere) and the driver becomes more of a passenger.
With everything else Tesla's R&D and manufacturing teams are working on right now - continuing to drive down Model 3 costs, bringing China manufacturing online, and introducing the Model Y, semi, Roadster 2.0 and pickup, it seems unlikely Tesla will do any major redesign of the S/X anytime soon.
The 15% price drop was long needed, to bring the vehicle cost down closer to the luxury ICE market and prepare for when the US tax credits completely disappear.
Plus, the price drop is going to make it much more difficult for other manufacturers to bring out vehicles that can compete with Tesla for price, performance, range and features - because Tesla is avoiding the extra costs of having stores/dealerships plus Tesla is the only manufacturer that has in-house motor and battery production (another area of overhead for the other manufacturers).
For other manufacturers, the price drop could have preceded a major model change - for Tesla, this is more likely the long-expected price drop as new technology matures coupled with increased efficiencies and the need to bring prices down to better compete against both ICEs and other EVs (the other manufacturers may be forced to sell their EVs at a loss - just to compete).
Why would anyone upgrade to a new S now? There should be some significant changes on the S in the future worth waiting for.
Did you sell at a loss? I have more than that in TSLA, keep seeing the SP dropping, but don't wanna sell at a loss. Maybe I'll just have to ignore the current SP and stay in long term. But it's hard. I keep vacillating between "let's cut the losses and move on" vs. "TSLA is a long term play, be patient."
It's a long term play. Be patient. I bought when it was quite low, so I'm always tempted to take my profit, but I do worry that TSLA won't get its service act together before the masses discover this is an enthusiast product.
I agree that lots of people like to test drive a car before they buy. In addition lots of people need help with the buying decision. A little nudge to get them over the hesitation. If I owned their stock I would be more than a little concerned right now. It wasn't that long ago when Musk publicly said that Tesla was single digit weeks away from bankruptcy last summer. Since then they have ramped up production and at the same time cut a significant percentage of their labor force. Now they are cutting even more. This not the sign of company that plans on sustaining it's growth. It is a sign of a company in peril. I think a buyout/merger is possible but not at the current stock price. I wish them the best. I love my 2013 P85+ but I'm not buying another one until this thing gets sorted out.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I'm up, but obviously not as much as I had hoped by now. I started buying three years ago at 142. That was very close to the bottom. I had some nice gains after that, but also made some significant mistakes thinking I could time the market. After one big mistake I decided to just buy and hold mostly. This changed after Thursday's announcement. I'm tired of watching the stock go up and down while I'm sitting on my hands. I'm about $25,000 back in now, so I'm ahead of the game unless it shoots above where I sold with an epic short squeeze. If I were you I wouldn't sell at this price, but add to my holdings if it keeps dropping. The only thing we have to fear is bankruptcy. That sure as hell better not happen.
On Feb. 19th he literally announced that they were expanding locations then not even 10 days later he announced the closing of almost EVERY showroom! Did I mention he didn't even bother giving anyone a heads up, that they found out via a blog?
If you got laid off tomorrow there is a very good chance you would have some idea or heads up as a common courtesy.
Maybe the Model S and X interior refresh and longer range version are coming soon, that's why they drop prices.
I think the real competition out there are other gasoline luxury cars. Yes, they are vastly different and have very different cost structure (mainly the battery cost). But I think it is a fair comparison for most majority of consumer. They are asking themselves "Do I want to get a Tesla or BMW/Mercedes for a slightly cheaper price?"
Even after the latest round of price cuts last week, Model 3 Long range version is still about 3000 dollars more expensive than BMW 3 series/ Mercedes C class (yes, I picked the Long range version of Model 3 coz it has the closest range to a gasoline car). While the Model S and Model X 100D version are still about 10000 more expensive than BMW 5 series/ Mercedes E class, BMW X5/ Mercedes GLE. It is hard for me to imagine Tesla isn't make a good profit margin on every car even after the latest price cut.
As costs come down, instead of dropping prices 5 figures overnight, they should have upgraded the content and materials of their flagship S and X models.
Drastic overnight prices reductions, with absolutely no changes to the car, are only going to ruin Tesla's brand.
