I've enagaged lawyers in an attempt to recover FSD cost (Australian owner)

[mrpseudonym]

Interestingly FSD still appears as a purchasable upgrade via the app (for me).

May be worth directing the ACCC to that point as well, as that is a very current scenario.

 

[advertisingfre]

Update on Dispute with Tesla Regarding Full Self-Driving (FSD) Charges

Attached is the complete exchange between my lawyers and Tesla.

Summary:

1. Tesla has declined responsibility for not delivering the FSD feature, resulting in no refund being offered (see attached).
2. Consequently, I have directed my legal team to file a complaint with the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC) on my behalf (see attached).
3. It appears that further discussions with Tesla will not yield any progress. Although escalating this to the ACCC aligns with my ethical standards, it doesn't give me an immediate refund.
4. I've prepared a draft for my lawyers to initiate a Statement of Claim to be filed in the Local Court, though I haven't sent it to them yet.

I'm a long-time supporter of Tesla and Elon Musk, beginning for me in 2011 with my fascination with SpaceX's grasshopper launches. That's how I discovered Telsa. Years later I was one of the early-adopters of the Model 3. Since then I've owned 1 other Tesla and have put down a deposit last week for another.
Unfortunately, my enthusiasm has been significantly dampened by all this. The lack of accountability is disheartening and goes against the principles of fairness and integrity I thought Elon valued.

Given the circumstances has anyone here pursued a similar case? What was your experience, and do you think it could be successful?

wow. I have never bought or refused to buy something because of a CEO.

 

[zoomer0056]

reasonably strong

What does this mean?

 

[JonDarian]

wow. I have never bought or refused to buy something because of a CEO.

Public statements buy the CEO about the products would never have any bearing in your decision? I appreciate that few CEOs directly talk about their product features, but Elon Musk certainly has in the past, and clearly in a way that is intended as information for potential customers.

 

[Zoltrix77]

wow. I have never bought or refused to buy something because of a CEO.

I don't think anyone has seen a CEO like Musk.

 

[Maximillan]

I don't think anyone has seen a CEO like Musk.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/9dru1l/heres_a_gif_of_elon_musk_smoking_pot_with_joe

 

[Audietron]

I don't think anyone has seen a CEO like Musk.

people said same for Steve Jobs... minus the social media, as he was before social media time...
Just because someone talks to wider audience via social media round the clock doesn't make them better CEO... CEO who promises random stuff all the time and never accomplishing it (Summon, parking, wipers, FSD...) but charges for it, misrepresents the product selling (FSD) and sells cars on self-driving future and promise aspects (how long we heard promises) but forever fails to accomplish it - what you would call in different circumstances? Elizabeth Anne Holmes? Elon Musk?

Either definition for good, bad, fraud, scamster, visionary, innovator, Rockstar CEO is changed now... or we are living in era of ignorance.

Disclaimer for cult fans, before they lynch me: I don't hate any of them, I don't associate with any of them... just sharing the observation and raising question on why one company/person's failed promise is OK but all other's isn't?

 

[JonDarian]

@Audietron , I didn't read @Zoltrix77 statement about Elon Musk as a compliment.

 

[Jules22]

This is way off topic (and full of nonsense)

 

[JonDarian]

This is way off topic (and full of nonsense)

If you mean the discussion about Elon Musk, then I disagree. This thread is about FSD not delivering what was promised. Mr Musk's statements about FSD would quite reasonably form part of a customer's expectation of how FSD would perform and be further developed.

 

[Jules22]

Throwing accusations of fraud around because someone made a guestimate of when something that has never been done before will be done, or because auto wipers don't work perfectly for everyone yet, is just stupid.

Is he over-optimistic, sure, has that been obvious for years, yes, he always ends up delivering even when all the 'experts' tell us it's impossible. Guestimates are not promises, taking longer to deliver on something than estimated, is not fraud or scam, etc, making those sweeping accusations just makes a person look very silly.

I support the OP and have done so publicly, but these last few posts are really going off the rails.

 

[Quickst]

Mr Musk's statements about FSD would quite reasonably form part of a customer's expectation of how FSD would perform and be further developed.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me the terms and conditions when they purchased FSD.

For me, the "coming soon" does not imply a set delivery time

 

[karlos22]

I am surprised that the ACCC has not cracked down on this. FSD is coming, evidently, judging by what is currently available in the USA - however depending on our regulators this could be years further down the track. Furthermore, it will likely be a subscription model when it is released.

I don't see why you can't simply purchase FSD once and transfer it to your next Tesla in perpetuity. Is there a problem with that?

 

[Jules22]

For me, the "coming soon" does not imply a set delivery time

Yes, this is true, as far as I am aware no "promises" have ever been made HOWEVER I think it's a reasonable expectation of SOME benefit in the lifetime of the vehicle, which is why I support the OP.

I belive Tesla is of no legal obligation to do anything as they have delivered what was "promised", however I do think (and it seems they have in previous examples) that they should offer something for those who purchased early and still haven't received a tangible benefit.

 

[Jules22]

I am surprised that the ACCC has not cracked down on this. FSD is coming, evidently, judging by what is currently available in the USA - however depending on our regulators this could be years further down the track. Furthermore, it will likely be a subscription model when it is released.

I don't see why you can't simply purchase FSD once and transfer it to your next Tesla in perpetuity. Is there a problem with that?

Crack down on what? They are clear what is offered and people are welcome to purchase it or not.

I do agree with transfer being available for those who purchase, but they are under no obligation to do so.

 

[RobDickinson]

For me, the "coming soon" does not imply a set delivery time

For NZ/my case this will be based on whats reasonable.

The website said 'later this year' for a large portion of 2020, then 'coming soon'.

I've had my car 5 years now still no fsd still no timeframe when it will arrive, that is not soon.

 

[Jules22]

For NZ/my case this will be based on whats reasonable.

The website said 'later this year' for a large portion of 2020, then 'coming soon'.

I've had my car 5 years now still no fsd still no timeframe when it will arrive, that is not soon.

Definitely a fair argument for those who purchased in that timeframe.

 

[Audietron]

I belive Tesla is of no legal obligation to do anything as they have delivered what was promised,

This post and discussion is about Tesla misrepresenting the FSD and not delivering what was promised when purchased.
it's car manufacturer's legal obligation to deliver what they sell and promise to customer in exchange for money customer paid. also, deliver that without known risks (phantom breaking) which could risk 'vehicle or life.

Throwing accusations of fraud around because someone made a guestimate of when something that has never been done before will be done, or because auto wipers don't work perfectly for everyone yet, is just stupid.

definition of Fraud is "a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities."

Doesn't that sound familiar to what's happening here? by the way, every car company on planet got wipers working perfectly, except Tesla. beta testing on production vehicle is not safe practice and similar to criminal offence if it could impair driver's visibility...

Elon Musk is visionary, but being visionary and being someone making claims without factual backing or clear pathway is very irresponsible...

 

[RobDickinson]

Tesla video promoting self-driving was staged, engineer testifies

A 2016 video that Tesla used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer.

www.reuters.com

Tesla faked an FSD demo drive in 2016

Tesla's CEO said it was coming 'this year' pretty much every year

He used strong arm price tactics to sell it

The website until at least April 2020 said it was coming 'later this year'

Narrator - it did not

 

[Quickst]

Can we see the terms and conditions pf FSD and also the agreement/contract of sale of the license.